Butane & bulkhead regulators! (1 Viewer)

[timdownieuk]

In the bad old days when we had a caravan, we used butane in the summer and propane in the cooler months without any problems. Just swapped the regulator and all our appliances worked perfectly.

Now in this new improved world, we don't need to swap regulators, one bulkhead one is supposedly suitable for both (unless I've misunderstood how it's all supposed to work).

Anyhow, fast forward to our current holiday in France, when, because of its duration I thought it would be wise to switch to butane for its better gas economy and duration. Bought a new HP pigtail, swapped the cylinders, tested it all and everything seemed fine. "Fine" that is, until firstly our Dometic oven tried to kill us with carbon monoxide and secondly our fridge died due to a chimney full of soot after a week of operation, mostly on gas (but by no means totally).

Now I'm annoyed at myself for not spotting that Hobby do say in the vehicle handbook that it's set up for propane but also annoyed that they have put explicit warnings about NOT using butane.

Also annoyed with Dometic for making appliances that don't seem to be "dual fuel" (unless it's all down to the wrong regulator) and annoyed that motor homes have "advanced" so much that you just can't swap gas supplies the way you used to be able to.

Fortunately we have a CO alarm and a full tank of propane so we're back to "normal".

Tempted to rip out the bulkhead regulator and go back to "proper" separate propane/butane regulators. I'm sure the supply pressure is just too high for butane to burn cleanly.

Have I been an idiot or are other folk under the misapprehension that the bulkhead regulator was suitable for both fuels?

 

[Armytwowheels]

We never switch between the two gas types if we can help it. The only time we have trouble with the fridge is if we have been forced to buy butane when in Morocco.

This is the first time I have heard that butane is more efficient than propane, you live and learn as they say!

 

[pappajohn]

I thought regulators for the German market were set for 50mb

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[Lenny HB]

The bulkhead regulator is suitable for both, the pressure difference it is so little, on Butane 30mb, old regs were 27 mb it's not going to make any difference to the operation of the appliances. From the problems you are getting sounds like something seriously wrong. But then again I've never come across anyone running a modern Motorhome on butane.
.

 

[Lenny HB]

We never switch between the two gas types if we can help it. The only time we have trouble with the fridge is if we have been forced to buy butane when in Morocco.

This is the first time I have heard that butane is more efficient than propane, you live and learn as they say!

Butane has a higher calorific value.

I thought regulators for the German market were set for 50mb

Not since 2002, since then it has been 30mb.

 

[Chris]

From the thread title I thought this was some weird sexual practice

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[Gellyneck]

When we moved from caravan (which was set up for butane) to motorhome (which was set up for propane) we had a bottle and a bit of butane left. I changed over the pigtail to butane connector, used up the butane, when replacing swapped for propane and changed back. No issues experienced apart from carrying both pigtails \ connectors until we ran out of butane.

 

[Boringfrog]

I thought regulators for the German market were set for 50mb

Isn't that in the olden days?

 

[Pausim]

I wonder if the problem might be the appliances rather than the regulator. Whilst my appliances specifically say suitable for propane or butane I have a dim and distant recollection that appliances can sometimes be jetted specifically for one or the other.

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[timdownieuk]

I'm not sure where the problem lies but it's clear that my appliances are running too "rich" on butane. First job when I get home will be to check the line pressure. If that's okay I'll check the spec of the appliances and see if they're actually rated for butane.

If they are I'll be picking up a stink as they clearly aren't happy with butane at the supplied pressure. The fridge sooting up was just a major pain the the arse, the oven trying to kill us was not funny. :-(

To me it makes no sense to go from a situation when we had clearly different supply pressures for fuels of different calorific value to the present situation of "one size doesn't fit all".

 

[walburga]

I experienced the same issues July 2016 when using a French 13kg butane cylinder, but it was about a week after I connected it up before the flue started to soot up. I cleaned the jet, flue, burner, but you could still smell it.
I cleaned everything again, then changed over to my 11kg propane cylinder. All was ok after that.
Shortly after that I installed 2 x 11kg Gasit re-fillables.
In Spain I re-filled one of those and got about 20 litres in it, so almost empty. Over the next month, or so, I regularly used that same cylinder. I knew it must be nearing empty, and then I noticed the smell again, and the sooting.
So I cleaned the fridge bits again...after firing the fridge up the smell returned within hours, along with the soot. Another clean, then I switched cylinders to my 2nd re-fillable which I had filled in the UK. That was several weeks ago, and all appears to be ok with fridge.

I'm thinking my fridge doesn't get on with French butane, nor does it with the dregs of Spanish propane which reside at the bottom of the cylinders.

My van's a 55 reg Hobby, with bulkhead 30 mb regulator.

 

[Dazzlin]

We run on butane in Morocco for three months at a time with no problems. Butagaz - also found in France.

Three years ago there was a bad (dirty) batch of butane which did soot up the fridge. However, a couple of months after that the fridge had problems (flame looked perfectly ok) and we had the gas burner replaced due to age and corrosion. I recommend getting a bloke (or lass) in the know to check the burner block if it's original.

Fridge is now brill on propane and not had to clean the flue on butane even after running on it for 2 x 3 month stints!
Can't help with the oven, don't use it much.

2007 Dethleffs, tall dometic f/f.

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[Chris]

From the thread title I thought this was some weird sexual practice

You have changed the thread title, making my comment look like I am a weirdo

 

[SteveB123]

In the bad old days when we had a caravan, we used butane in the summer and propane in the cooler months without any problems. Just swapped the regulator and all our appliances worked perfectly.

Now in this new improved world, we don't need to swap regulators, one bulkhead one is supposedly suitable for both (unless I've misunderstood how it's all supposed to work).

Anyhow, fast forward to our current holiday in France, when, because of its duration I thought it would be wise to switch to butane for its better gas economy and duration. Bought a new HP pigtail, swapped the cylinders, tested it all and everything seemed fine. "Fine" that is, until firstly our Dometic oven tried to kill us with carbon monoxide and secondly our fridge died due to a chimney full of soot after a week of operation, mostly on gas (but by no means totally).

Now I'm annoyed at myself for not spotting that Hobby do say in the vehicle handbook that it's set up for propane but also annoyed that they have put explicit warnings about NOT using butane.

Also annoyed with Dometic for making appliances that don't seem to be "dual fuel" (unless it's all down to the wrong regulator) and annoyed that motor homes have "advanced" so much that you just can't swap gas supplies the way you used to be able to.

Fortunately we have a CO alarm and a full tank of propane so we're back to "normal".

Tempted to rip out the bulkhead regulator and go back to "proper" separate propane/butane regulators. I'm sure the supply pressure is just too high for butane to burn cleanly.

Have I been an idiot or are other folk under the misapprehension that the bulkhead regulator was suitable for both fuels?

Why change gas in the old days, surely it would be better on propane all the time.

 

[ludo]

The bulkhead regulator is suitable for both, the pressure difference it is so little, on Butane 30mb, old regs were 27 mb it's not going to make any difference to the operation of the appliances. From the problems you are getting sounds like something seriously wrong. But then again I've never come across anyone running a modern Motorhome on butane.
.

We use "Cepsa", Spanish gas, when in Spain, (May/June/July). As far as I am aware, this gas is butane so anyone else using it will be running on butane.

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[Lenny HB]

We use "Cepsa", Spanish gas, when in Spain, (May/June/July). As far as I am aware, this gas is butane so anyone else using it will be running on butane.

OK I'll rephrase that and add " in the UK from new" but you have confirmed my point they should run in butane without problems.

 

[daveinspain]

We use "Cepsa", Spanish gas, when in Spain, (May/June/July). As far as I am aware, this gas is butane so anyone else using it will be running on butane.

Cepsa sell both Butane (silver cylinder) and Propane (grey cylinder). I´ve used butane in our Rapido in the past with no problems, although I normally use propane - BUT that is using Spanish regulator, don´t know if that makes a difference.

 

[2657]

We use "Cepsa", Spanish gas, when in Spain, (May/June/July). As far as I am aware, this gas is butane so anyone else using it will be running on butane.

I would doubt that all Cepsa bottles in Spain are butane, certainly Repsol bottles are available with butane or propane.

Large parts of Spain are subject to sub zero temperatures and as bottled gas is largely the only gas available propane is a necessity.

Beaten to it

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[timdownieuk]

Why change gas in the old days, surely it would be better on propane all the time.

Butane, per BTU of heat generated, is cheaper and the cylinders last longer. Important considerations when touring abroad and no access to refills.

 

[Jim]

Butane, per BTU of heat generated, is cheaper and the cylinders last longer.

It might be cheaper, but whenever I've used it, it has caused me problems. Large yellow flames and plenty of soot deposits. Normally equals a fridge service. So not cheaper at all. Also, you can get caught out at night in autumn colder weather when your heating or hot water refuses to light. My advice, avoid butane.

 

[timdownieuk]

It might be cheaper, but whenever I've used it, it has caused me problems. Large yellow flames and plenty of soot deposits. Normally equals a fridge service. So not cheaper at all. Also, you can get caught out at night in autumn colder weather when your heating or hot water refuses to light. My advice, avoid butane.

Well all I can say is that we never had any problems with our old caravan. I would agree that it really doesn't seem worth the aggro with modern vans with a single pressure regulator.

My point is though that I pretty sure the system is *supposed* to work with either fuel. They're selling a system and appliances that manifestly don't work properly. Given the potential cost, inconvenience AND danger, this cannot be right.

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