Burstner Elegance front coil springs (1 Viewer)

[955matt]

Hi we have a elegance 821 and i noticed the van will wheel spin very easily when turning out of a junction etc even when dry.

Looking at the front of the vehicle it seems to sit high , much higher than other elegances i have looked at which tend to have a nose down stance.

The front coil springs look like they have been replaced ( they are blue in colour )

Has anybody else had after market springs fitted and how does your van sit?

 

[karalal]

Blue is the factory fit springs

 

[Just smiffy]

I would suspect that the springs don't have much to do with it, I would first look at your weights front and rear it seems your front is a bit light or the back is heavy, lifting the front, others with tags may have the same problem though and I'm sure there'll be along soon to chip in...

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[makems]

@Smith and Sharp probably has the answer. The Elegance is very long and has a big rear overhang. If the garage is full of "stuff" the weight will shift significantly to the rear, lightening the load on the front wheels.
When returning from our foreign trips with a full load of wine and beer I usually stash a some of it inside the living area to increase the load on the fronts and stop the front of the van pointing up to the sky

 

[955matt]

No not much weight in the garage , a couple of bikes ,spare wheel and some tools and a couple of folding chairs at the moment its fairly empty.

I did think there might be something wrong with the torsion bar rear end , but it doesn't look any different from any other elegance at the back . Just high at the front

 

[Just smiffy]

No not much weight in the garage , a couple of bikes ,spare wheel and some tools and a couple of folding chairs at the moment its fairly empty.

I did think there might be something wrong with the torsion bar rear end , but it doesn't look any different from any other elegance at the back . Just high at the front

Eat more pies....



I think the makers balance them on what they think "How they are going to be used" are your tanks, water/waste and fuel full when travelling?

I'm guessing it's a fiat base as it has the same wheels as mine, I occasionally get a bit of spin if booted as I think the first gear is very short on the Fiat Ducato and mine is only a 2.3cc.

Also what are your front tyre pressures ? Deflating them a bit might also help...

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[955matt]

Try to always leave with full water and fuel , ours is the 3.0 and yes the first gear is very short.

Tyres are set to what ever the book said for Michelin tyres , cant remember now.

It was only the fact that most Elegances sit down at the front and ours looks quite high. I wont worry to much

 

[Badknee]

It does look like you may be light on the front, out Hobby 700 spins the fronts for fun if given some welly and were only 175kgs below max on the front. We're running 65psi all round.

 

[Just smiffy]

when your on a known level, is the inside showing level as well...?

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[Delboyarapaho]

we have the 890i and ours is full of stuff in the garage (2 folding bikes, several cooking appliances, 2 chairs.....I worry sometimes in case we have too much) and does sit down at the front as you say. I have only once had a problem of wheel spin whereas the Auto trail Arapaho I had previously span regularly. I have to say I agree that from your picture yours appears to sit high at the front and I cant imagine it is a problem of what you have or don't have in it.

good luck with investigating

 

[Timotei]

I have an 890 and the front looks about the same but the rear looks lower than mine (in storage so trying to do this from memory - which gets worse every day) I fitted air asisstance to the rear of mine, Dunlop system from Marcel Leisure, made a big difference to the ride and stability. Only run at about 1.5 bar but have found that's the best for me.
I did have Goldschmidt front springs fitted by Dave Newell can't remember what colour they are. The original springs had gone soft and would 'bottom out' frequently

 

[dave newell]

Your issue has nothing to do with the front COIL springs, it is simply a matter of physics. A large and heavy vehicle with front wheel drive, a lot of drag from two rear axles (compounded by right turning where the tyres are forced to scrub sideways) and an abundance of torque from a really grunty power plant will often result in the front wheels breaking traction. I have known 3 litre Ducatos to break traction in 2nd gear on a dry road, especially if they've been chipped/remapped.

D.

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[955matt]

Wow thanks again Dave , so the suspension height is nothing to do with the coil springs ??????????????????

 

[makems]

I just read the OP again. Wheel spin when turning out of a junction will often cause wheel spin on any powerful front drive vehicle because the inside wheel is turning faster than the oustide wheel and so spins. (Unless you have traction control of course).
I had a Renault 25 V6 years ago that would do it every time - all I had to do was press the accelerator while the front wheels were pointing to either left or right of centre to generate movie car chase levels of tyre squeal.

 

[Just smiffy]

I had a Renault 25 V6 years ago

Ditto, a lovely comfortable car to drive...

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[makems]

Ditto, a lovely comfortable car to drive...

Most comfortable car Ive ever owned, and Ive had Lots including bMWs and Mercs etc.

 

[dave newell]

Wow thanks again Dave , so the suspension height is nothing to do with the coil springs ??????????????????

Not quite what I was saying, the ride height is obviously down to the COIL springs but it will have very little effect on wheelspin when turning uphill out of junctions.

D.

 

[The Wino]

Not quite what I was saying, the ride height is obviously down to the COIL springs but it will have very little effect on sheepskin when turning uphill out of junctions.

D.

Don't you love predictive text!!!!!

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[dave newell]

Don't you love predictive text!!!!!

Hahaha, never spotted that.

D.

 

[955matt]

Sorry Dave for the short reply ( bad day at work ). Poorly worded question. Wheel spin I expect front wheel drive turning out of a junction on an incline etc. It was more a question of the front suspension heights and what might be wrong and is that causing the weight to be moved more to the rear making the front light. Have the springs been replaced for aftermarket harder spring?, is there a fault with the rear torsion bars? etc. I guess I will have to replace the front springs and see how its sits and go from there.

On a side note do you anyone know who might fit a sterling inverter / charger? I have one but am struggling to find someone to fit it .

Matt

 

[Dill]

It looks a bit low at the back end to me. We had an 821 and the front looked a bit lower, even our 800 is a bit lower at the front. I would get in touch with the last owners and ask the question regarding the front springs. They usually fit uprated springs to the front when they have hydraulic leveling systems fitted, this may be the case and the last owner has had it taken off to fit on new motorhome.

Dill

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[955matt]

Thanks Dill, will do .

Matt

 

[A S R]

@Smith and Sharp probably has the answer. The Elegance is very long and has a big rear overhang. If the garage is full of "stuff" the weight will shift significantly to the rear, lightening the load on the front wheels.
When returning from our foreign trips with a full load of wine and beer I usually stash a some of it inside the living area to increase the load on the fronts and stop the front of the van pointing up to the sky

I have the opposite! My 821 is very nose down and that's with a motorbike and tools in the garage! I'm thinking about getting Goldschmitt ( or however it's spelt ) front springs fitted. I've been told they " lift " the front up an inch or two.

 

[tacr2man]

The problem cant be with the front springs , even if you fit "jelly" as your front spring medium it wont give any more weight to the front axle . The only way to get more front axle weight ( which would give a probably small increase in traction ) is to load more in between the first two axles , and have less or nothing behind the last two axles.
The strength of springs at either end doesn't matter other than for a ride attitude pov . Its all to do with moments of force .

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[Xabia]

I have two complete front struts with Goldschmitt springs fitted surplus to requirements as I have had full VB air suspension fitted, pm me if you are interested. Cost of fitting will be less than replacing the springs themselves as the fitters would not need to remove and refit the coils.

 

[A S R]

Ooh, ok, sounds promising....
What year / model Elegance ( or doesn't that matter? ) did the struts come off?

 

[Ditcha]

The blue front springs will be VB springs I had them fitted to ours when we had jacks fitted as we were nose down at the front raised the front by 60mm

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[Xabia]

Ooh, ok, sounds promising....
What year / model Elegance ( or doesn't that matter? ) did the struts come off?

Came off a 2007 Hymer on an X250 chassis with 3.0 litre engine. Lifted the front so that the whole outfit was virtually level. The Goldschmitts give a more comfortable ride, company taken over by Hymer and they can be fitted as an option at the time of build.

They weren’t fitted originally, from memory about 7 years old and in excellent condition.

If your van is on an X250 chassis they will fit okay.

 

[A S R]

Came off a 2007 Hymer on an X250 chassis with 3.0 litre engine. Lifted the front so that the whole outfit was virtually level. The Goldschmitts give a more comfortable ride, company taken over by Hymer and they can be fitted as an option at the time of build.

If your van is on an X250 chassis they will fit okay.

Ok thanks. I'll try to find out what model my chassis is. My van is an 07 and the 3.0! May take a few days for me to find out. Does it say on the log book or do I need to look elsewhere? Cheers.

 

[Xabia]

If your van is an 07 on a Fiat chassis with 3.0 litre engine the struts will definitely fit. Fiats built from 2006 until a couple of years ago were all X250’s. Will pm you with my number if you would prefer to talk about this.

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