BIO or NON BIO for toilets

Feb 24, 2013
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sorry about this inevitable repeat query

we have moved off blue / green stuff for our toilet due mainly to issues with disposal in remote locations

I was convinced that the guidance was to use non bio liquids, now wonder if I got that wrong and bio is OK

my presumption is that it should be non bio due to septic tank and similar receptical issues

if it ends up down an elsan it will make no difference I presume, and once diluted by 100 litres of 'contents' in our black tank does it make any odds at all? ::bigsmile:
 

funflair

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Hi David

I think it's Bio but I could be wrong. I'm not even sure what I use as I usually buy it in France and not quite sure what I am buying.

Martin
 

TheBig1

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the idea is to use bio as the active ingredient naturally consumes the smelling microbes. non bio uses chemicals to do the same so not as green friendly and less effective

septic tanks use natural microbes
 
Nov 6, 2013
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Hi David,
Like Martin I'm sure it is Bio.
There have been many threads on this subject. Might be worth a search(y)
 
OP
DavidG58
Feb 24, 2013
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yet another thing I seem to have got completely back to front

Bio sounds worse than non Bio, I thought I was doing my little bit for the environment, is Bio better than non Bio, other than smell control?

You will tell me next that my 3.0 litre is less economic than a 2.3 litre :D
 

Frentchy

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Oct 2, 2013
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sorry about this inevitable repeat query

we have moved off blue / green stuff for our toilet due mainly to issues with disposal in remote locations

I was convinced that the guidance was to use non bio liquids, now wonder if I got that wrong and bio is OK

my presumption is that it should be non bio due to septic tank and similar receptical issues

if it ends up down an elsan it will make no difference I presume, and once diluted by 100 litres of 'contents' in our black tank does it make any odds at all? ::bigsmile:
I'm getting confused with negatives an positive negs, all I can add, being (apart from other construction works) is an installer or fosse septic systems. And if the user of a fosse septic is on a course of anti biotic it can cause the system to fail,
 

Mattyjwr

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Aug 18, 2013
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Biological washing powders and liquids contain enzymes that breakdown dirt (proteins, starches and fats). In your loo cassette, it seems to break down poo and urine and reduces the smells to such an extent that we don't need to empty the loo until it is full (two or three days) rather than once a day if we don't use the bio liquid.
 

Mattyjwr

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Septic tank owners will not thank you for emptying your cassette into their system if you have used formaldehyde type products.
 

Bertie Bassett

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Jul 25, 2014
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Septic tank owners will not thank you for emptying your cassette into their system if you have used formaldehyde type products.
Seconded, but also many places in Germany and (in my experience) 'everywhere' in Scandinavia.
 
OP
DavidG58
Feb 24, 2013
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Biological washing powders and liquids contain enzymes that breakdown dirt (proteins, starches and fats). In your loo cassette, it seems to break down poo and urine and reduces the smells to such an extent that we don't need to empty the loo until it is full (two or three days) rather than once a day if we don't use the bio liquid.
Septic tank owners will not thank you for emptying your cassette into their system if you have used formaldehyde type products.
I am still as confused as when I started, does non bio have formaldehyde? I thought that was in the blue and green stuff that we have abandoned

Is non bio worse for septic tanks than bio?

It just doesn't sound right?

non bio is all you can buy from the eco sellers
 

Mattyjwr

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yet another thing I seem to have got completely back to front

Bio sounds worse than non Bio, I thought I was doing my little bit for the environment, is Bio better than non Bio, other than smell control?

You will tell me next that my 3.0 litre is less economic than a 2.3 litre :D
Bio is better for washing some items and can operate at lower temperatures 30-40oc so you will reduce your energy use. Temperatures above this may damage the enzyme (denature it) so they stop working (permanently) and temperatures below may inactivate the enzyme so it does not work so effectively.
 

Mattyjwr

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I am still as confused as when I started, does non bio have formaldehyde? I thought that was in the blue and green stuff that we have abandoned

Is non bio worse for septic tanks than bio?

It just doesn't sound right?

non bio is all you can buy from the eco sellers
No, non bio liquid doesn't have formaldehyde.

I don't know why the Eco sellers don't sell bio liquid.
 

vwalan

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just about every campsite i know in devon and cornwall that are of any size . have a seperate emtying place for chemical toilets . they get emptied by tankers and then taken to sewage works that treat it differently to plain sewage . i have come across a few campsite private sewage works spoilt by campers not tipping in the right place . can cost thousands and thousands to get the works going again . very often draining . cleaning and bringing in good sewage to get them working again . spent weeks towing and froing with one in cornwall . felt quite sorry for the campsite managers .
 

Bertie Bassett

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Jul 25, 2014
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I am still as confused as when I started, does non bio have formaldehyde? I thought that was in the blue and green stuff that we have abandoned

Is non bio worse for septic tanks than bio?

It just doesn't sound right?

non bio is all you can buy from the eco sellers
David as Bio is acceptable in Germany and Scandinavia then it is formaldehyde free, and vwalan's post is also a good pointer.(y)
 
OP
DavidG58
Feb 24, 2013
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:clap::clap:

just about every campsite i know in devon and cornwall that are of any size . have a seperate emtying place for chemical toilets . they get emptied by tankers and then taken to sewage works that treat it differently to plain sewage . i have come across a few campsite private sewage works spoilt by campers not tipping in the right place . can cost thousands and thousands to get the works going again . very often draining . cleaning and bringing in good sewage to get them working again . spent weeks towing and froing with one in cornwall . felt quite sorry for the campsite managers .
Hi Alan

I have seen many a similar problem in Yorkshire and Cumbria with Blue elsan completely wiping out small sewage works, we do flow surveys on them and often get employed to carry out flow checks when camp sites might be 'inadvertently' sending blue elsan waste direct to sewage works

As you say it really is important if the site says no chemicals it is for good reason, they are 'lethal' to small treatment systems that are usually associated with nice rural spots we like to use

A point well made and fully endorsed by me:clap:
 

vwalan

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i have to say i found working in the sewage game very interesting . i also did some work with fresh water works . i always asked questions . wish i had been more interested in science at school . it was very interesting . learnt lots . specialy when the scientist found out i visited morocco alot . thats one of the reasons i use the berkfeld ceramic filter system with silver inlay as my water filteration system . silver is the worlds best purifier.
 

Bertie Bassett

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i have to say i found working in the sewage game very interesting . i also did some work with fresh water works . i always asked questions . wish i had been more interested in science at school . it was very interesting . learnt lots . specialy when the scientist found out i visited morocco alot . thats one of the reasons i use the berkfeld ceramic filter system with silver inlay as my water filteration system . silver is the worlds best purifier.
You have a wide variety of interests vw!!:D
On a serious note, any more detail on your filtration system please?(y)
 

vwalan

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Badknee

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Bio sounds worse than non Bio, I thought I was doing my little bit for the environment, is Bio better than non Bio, other than smell control?

You will tell me next that my 3.0 litre is less economic than a 2.3 litre :D
Ah well, are you using Bio Diesel or none Bio Diesel? Therein lies the secret. ;) :LOL:
 

Hollyberry

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Cheapest Sainsburys bio laundry powder. Your cassette will never smell bad!
1/2 cup in cassette will work fine until it's full.

I used bio liquid and powder in washing machines and dishwasher in France, didn't cause any problems in the fosse.
Enzymes act on proteins, fats etc... Break everything down then the natural bacteria in the fosse finished it all off.
 

vwalan

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you sure your washing machines went into it . normally they go into a soak away not the septic .
 

Bertie Bassett

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http://www.brownchurch.co.uk/products/equipment-accessories/brownchurch-products/water-purification/
heres where i bought it . . you will have to check on prices . i bought the full kit they show as it was for in my vw camper . i used it for showers as well as for ther seperate drinking water . that price includeds a pump i believe . the best bit is the replacement filters are a good price .
http://www.water-systems.co.uk/shop/british-berkfield-hba-mk11-filter.html
heres my system with out the pump etc .
this seems more along the prices i paid for mine years ago.
i use a doulton ultra carb ceramic filter . have a play . but i dare say a phone call to them will give you more .
Many thanks vw! (y)
 

Frentchy

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you sure your washing machines went into it . normally they go into a soak away not the septic .
The latest Fosse septic tanks introduced about 10/15 yrs ago are called "tout eaux" All Water, So it all goes in!
And a dead rat to start it Hubble-Bubbling(y)
 
Jul 27, 2013
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I was under the impression that the bad guy was formaldehyde which hasn't been used for years.
What is in the blue Elsan stuff that is so bad?
In France right now and not being able to find any bio stuff in a supermarket I had to buy some blue stuff made by CampingGaz.
Says it's suitable for all chemical toilets. Assuming that most if not all of this waste gets put into campsite/aire systems is this stuff also bad?
 
Sep 23, 2013
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I was under the impression that the bad guy was formaldehyde which hasn't been used for years.
What is in the blue Elsan stuff that is so bad?
I though formaldehyde had been phased out too, but Elsan Double Blue still contains it - it says so on the label. Saw it in the caravan dealers shop just recently. Formaldeyde & methanol I think were the warnings.

I also see that Elsan's adverts claim that they produce the only loo fluid to meet some British Standard for effectiveness. Maybe that's why.

I went over to the bio clothes washing stuff a while ago, following advice on here (thanks, guys). I started with Lidl's tablets, which seem to work fine, but I thought the liquid might be easier. I think I got the wrong one though - the instructions say pour into the measuring cap & place the full cap in the washing machine on top of the clothes. I found out why - the damn stuff is so viscous that you can't pour it out of the cap. And it clings - you can't even rinse it off without copious quantities of water. I'll have to just squirt some direct into the tank next time & take a guess at the quantity. I don't mind retrieving the cap from a pile of freshly washed clothes, but I'm damned if I'm fishing it back out of the cassette. :sick:
 
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