Beware - Debit Card Fraud (1 Viewer)

motorhomer

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We were in the latter stages of a 7 week tour of Italy in the motorhome. Late one night we were woken by a text arriving. It was from tne bank (Lloyds) saying my debit card had been used for an overseas transaction.

In fact the card had been securely stored in a locker in the van, unused, ever since we had left England 5 weeks previously, and was still there.

I rang the bank, who said all we could do was watch the account. So a couple of days later I manafed to get wifi and checked.

There were 4 spurious transactions. One for £1, One for £5 (from 7 digital.com) and two for a few pence from rotary international. Not much money the but the point was, I had not done them! I can only assume these were initial small transactions which, if not spotted, would have been followed by a much larger one.

Rang the bank again, cancelled the card and the bank refunded the money. Fortunately we had other cards with us.

But I have no idea how or when my card details were stolen. The debit card itself is not used much, mainly in cash machines and the odd internet site who charge for credit cards. And it had not been used at all for over 5 weeks prior to this.

Beware, and check your statements carefully even if travelling!
 

Theonlysue

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Hi,

sometimes the fraudsters put through small amounts, and if these are not notices, they will process larger ones - so folk should really question ANY items they do not recognise.

S
 

ShiftZZ

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The small purchases are to see if the card is still valid and the owner has not blocked it. Its also 'testing' the transactional fraud prevention system.

ShiftZZ

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Feb 22, 2008
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Although over here, I had similar transactions on my Lloyds debit card. 23p to Rotary then refunded and £349 for a purchase from Garmin which was nothing to do with mine.
I got the money back but it is worrying :Eeek:
 

moandick

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But I have no idea how or when my card details were stolen.

Was it not reported in the newpapers recently that people in certain countries were buying and selling credit/debit card lists and associated data?

Apparently the details started being mis-appropriated when call centres and databanks were moved overseas for cheaper labour costs. :Angry:

Bit similar to the National Census being 'keyed-in' by foreign workers who translated to the Victorian "Workhouses", specifically designed for the needy workers and paupers - into the 'House of Employment' :Eeek:

Dick
 

haganap

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We had a donation of £5 given to a New York Charity, then bang bang bang, several large amounts for plane tickets etc. Luckily we had already notified the bank.

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sedge

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We had over £600 go walkabout from our Lloyd's account whilst we were on hols in France - as it happened I'd had cause to ring the bank from France and they had a record of it, so it was easy to prove we couldn't have been at the Thistle Hotel at Aintree on that same day.

I have to say we strongly suspected a certain chainstore's staff because some time previously a friend had had the same thing withing a couple of weeks of using her card in the same shop.

Trouble is once the bank refund your dosh the police stop the investigation since there has been no loss. They get exceedingly frustrated by this. The banks who have actually lost the money don't bother bothering the police so that's the end of that. I spose if it was £100,000 or summat they would; but dunno ......
 

ShiftZZ

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UK Banks often have to send Internal Investigation Teams to India along with Geeks who look at hard drives etc... The problems are rife and when they initially went overseas they used "Thin Client", they would send one PC and that would be cloned :)Rofl1:) I think they used Citrix..

I suspect that its no different if it was brought back home, but, the same problems exist here...
One bank has a team interviewing staff who have accessed the account of Premier Football players accounts,,,

Such is the price we pay for outsourcing the work and gettimng rid of local bank managers,,,


ShiftZZ
 

ShiftZZ

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Trouble is once the bank refund your dosh the police stop the investigation since there has been no loss. They get exceedingly frustrated by this. The banks who have actually lost the money don't bother bothering the police so that's the end of that. I spose if it was £100,000 or summat they would; but dunno ......

Not that simple...

If the Customer lives in Leicestershire and has a RBS bank account and the transaction is made in Merseyside then you have a problem..
Leicestershire police will not take on the case as the crime was not committed in Leicestershire.
The question is "where was the crime comnmitted?"
Leicestershire, Merseyside or Scotland. each police force will not want to take it on as its expensive to investigate and the chances of a conviction are slim...

A number of years ago they whole thing was in turmoil as the Theft Act did not take into account electronic transfer (Preddy Case) therefor you could not charge an individual where the money was taken electronically..

We are and will always be two steps behind.

Lastly, the ones who actualy lose are the merchants as the frauds are charged back...

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GJH

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Lastly, the ones who actualy lose are the merchants as the frauds are charged back...

Perhaps this is part of the problem. If the banks were forced to stand the losses which result from systems which have security levels too low to prevent these frauds then they might do more to put them right.

When working in the data protection and IT security fields I found, all too often, that some companies simply didn't include the need for adequate security in system requirements - with the inevitable result that it was missed from system design.
 

Squire

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The small purchases are to see if the card is still valid and the owner has not blocked it. Its also 'testing' the transactional fraud prevention system.

ShiftZZ


Hmm ... that's what 'theonlysue' posted, too, but frankly I don't see the sense in it. Why test the system first and give a warning shot? Why not go for broke the first time and go for the jackpot? It's an offence either way ....
 

Jaws

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Squire, I agree 100% with you but remember, we are not talking about normal people here...

From knowledge gained from a certain place I can state that this is indeed exactly what the daft sods do !!

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ShiftZZ

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Hmm ... that's what 'theonlysue' posted, too, but frankly I don't see the sense in it. Why test the system first and give a warning shot? Why not go for broke the first time and go for the jackpot? It's an offence either way ....

You cant, there are systems that monitior the transactions of the cardholder, one such system is 'Falcon' by Fair Isaac, this determins what is the normal spending pattern of the cardholder. Anything thta is outside the expected pattern would be flagged and then a caution placed on the account - result - dead card.

Small purchases on regular basis will tell them that the account is still active. My suspicion is that the purchases will be made via the old paper method, not all countried have electronic terminals or accept PIN Numbers.

A lot of information that the fraudsters have, has been leaked form the industry. The industry is under constant attack ( Lebanese Loop, Card Swiping, Social Engineering, Trojans........)

In 1966 when Barclaycard launched in Northampton, the 1st telephone call for authorization was received , autherised and it turned out to be a fraud.

One weekend a module within a certain software package was switched off, the fraudsters became aware of it and the Bank concerned (in Edinburgh) lost £180k in a weekend...

ShiftZZ
 

Styx

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I know of another Lloyds debit card compromised within the last couple of weeks (not mine, fortunately) - coincidentally the cardholder was also away on holiday - it was noticed and sorted out very quickly, but this one was on a business account...

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pappajohn

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my Abbey debit card was blocked at the first ATM i used in america.....i forgot to inform them i was going abroad :Doh:

a quick skype call to the uk and all sorted. :thumb:
 

GJH

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I use my credit card fairly infrequently and with a pretty regular spending pattern (mostly on-line).

Last July I use the card to buy 2 electric bikes in a field in Cheshire (Northern Show). Just under £1,000 and no query at all.

Next transaction was an on-line booking of a hotel room in September. £29 and it was blocked by the company without reference to us because they had c*cked up the record of our phone numbers.

It strikes me that, just like local government receiving inspection Brownie points for having procedures in place (whether they are used/work or not) the systems that monitor cardholder transactions leave much to be desired.
 

algill

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Hmm ... that's what 'theonlysue' posted, too, but frankly I don't see the sense in it. Why test the system first and give a warning shot? Why not go for broke the first time and go for the jackpot? It's an offence either way ....

Well it seems to be the norm to test the account first. This happened to me 3 months ago. A £1 transaction followed by 2 for £250 each with an online betting shop.

What I couldn't understand was why it couldn't be traced back to the criminal. They must have put in the information (name, account etc) for any winnings to be paid into. I certainly hoped the ba****d lost though. :Angry:

Gill

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ShiftZZ

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If the payments were made by credit card and then through PayPal, the money could have been laundered very quickly, remember that each step of thE way the police will require a court order to access the bank accounts, each one can take time. each day the money could be transferred through multiple accounts.
Paypal are registered in Switzerland and therefore that causes more problems, you have to apply to the specific canton within the country to get the information.

With all the above work, there will be little chance of any prosecution, the police could spend days and weeks investigation with little chance of any return on their 'investment', even if caught the odds are that the criminal would get a suspended sentence.

The banks take a commercial decision, if they have lost £1000 are they going to spend £5,000 investigating it? NO. Its far easier to add it to the charges customers pay..

Even HMRC tend not to investigate a fraud where the loss is less than £100k.

Lastly, regarding ID. I was visiting a Council in the NE and they said that if a person came into their office and stated that their name was Donald Duck, they would have to accept it as they are not allowed to challenge what the customer states (Could be a local decision), that individual could claim benefit, even though you and I would not be happy.

Its a mucky old world out there, there is no simple solution, banks spend vasts amount of money trying to plug the holes, but they are and will always be 1 step behind. Even after all the publicity customers still response to phising e-mails, they still fall for the Nigerian mega $$$$$$ scam. Even a local politician here fell for the classic Dashing Serviceman in Afghanistan scam. Each day, you can surf and find the NHS has been scammed by illegal immigrants working within the service, the CPS in Manchester were using an 'expert witness' who turned out to be both illegal and unqualified. The Met Police was scammed when their Head of Finance had fleeced them and bought his own title.
 

GJH

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Lastly, regarding ID. I was visiting a Council in the NE and they said that if a person came into their office and stated that their name was Donald Duck, they would have to accept it as they are not allowed to challenge what the customer states (Could be a local decision), that individual could claim benefit, even though you and I would not be happy.

Not local and totally legal so long as there is no intention to defraud. We are all able to use any name we like so long as it is done honestly. The customer might have one or two problems matching up a preferred name with official records though :Smile:
 

Douzeper

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My son was in Afghanistan serving with the Royal Signals (home two weeks ago safe and sound, thank god), he got £6500 lifted from his account after he used the internet to make a purchase. Luckily he spotted it and phoned the bank and got it stopped straight away, they reckoned it would never of been paid out anyhow, but scary enough!:Eeek:

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beachcaster

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Not local and totally legal so long as there is no intention to defraud. We are all able to use any name we like so long as it is done honestly. The customer might have one or two problems matching up a preferred name with official records though :Smile:


What has the world come to .......to present oneself as a comic character
and to have legal credibility is madness

yogi bear
 
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I know I'm coming late on this thread, but, recently on our Scottish trip, we had our World Card stopped after having a meal at a Pub, Wasn't a worry, we paid using our debit card.
The next day tried twice to top up the phone, each time it was refused! So phoned the number on the card that was refused, after topping up using the debit once again. Got through, asked what the problem was, after doing the usual checks, mums maiden name, et al, the fella told us the bank (Nat West) had noticed that the card was being used in Scotland, a lot, we live in Cornwall, 2+2 = 4, stop the card!
After going thro all our card purchases, they restarted the card, everything worked out hunkee doree.

At least one Bank is on the ball!:thumb:
 

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