Being parked at the side of a road and alcohol (1 Viewer)

[rnb100]

Last year I predominantly used camp sites, but I'm planning on doing a bit more off-grid in the campervan this year. I started thinking about being parked up somewhere and PC Plod raps on the window, spots a glass of wine in your hand and the whole world of being drunk in charge of a vehicle comes into play. After a bit of googling, the basic advice of never starting the engine, keep the keys out the ignition, don't sit in the drivers seat if it's in the forward position. All common sense suggestions and ones I'll always adhere to.

Has anyone ever had any altercations with the boys in blue whilst parked up, or do they tend to leave you alone when they see your blinds are closed and you're not bothering anyone?

Thanks,

Arron.

 

[MR BLO]

Has anyone ever had any altercations with the boys in blue whilst parked up, or do they tend to leave you alone when they see your blinds are closed and you're not bothering anyone?

Not altercations because I am a good boy officer but I have had a couple of visits from the peelers whilst parked up in a lay-by. Nothing to do with DIC. Once when in a lay-by in South Wales they actually suggested to me that there is a better spot down the road with a no-parking sign because the spot that I had chosen was a drug dealing hotspot and I would get a better nights sleep down the road where there was cctv and hence no pond life. I made them a brew and young Archie was ever so excited by the police arriving with their blues flashing.
But I would never drink in this situation. It’s just common sense IMO. A lay-by is an extension of the highway and therefore one should stick to the rules. Anything could happen that requires you to move on. Car parks and wild spots are different but I certainly would not be getting pissed up again in case something happened and I had to move like the time we were parked up in what turned out to be a rather popular dogging spot and we had several noses pressed up against the windows . I can confirm that the van was not rocking.
The police are too busy to bother us in general but if we start flouting the rules and persons are called upon and obviously DIC then I would suggest that the frequency of visits would increase and rightly so. Would not do a lot for our reputation either IMO when van life is coming under increasing scrutiny.

 

[Scotch mist]

Nobody has admitted to it, which makes it seem it must be very rare. Are you planning to do a social experiment with all this information?!

I’ll admit it , We sometimes go to Ayr seafront for the night , we do the bars & an Indian when pubs shut , always a good night , I put the main keys in the garage , if the police asked me to move I would flatly refuse as that would be breaking the law

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[rnb100]

Are you planning to do a social experiment with all this information?!

Not at all. In my younger days, I used to experience a certain amount of harassment from the local plod who would constantly 'move us on'. We'd drive somewhere remote and they'd follow us and do the same. Once you started arguing your point about being legal for your car / motorbike, you'd be threatened with arrest and it was like they were actually trying to escalate the situation to make an arrest. As a youth, you didn't know that actually you were well within your rights to park up somewhere in your car for a rest and a chat with your mates, but they had some sort of vendetta against us, which then built up resentment against them. I think back then the cops were flexing their muscles and took advantage of our naivety on the law. Do I still hold a grudge against them because of that harassment experience? I suppose I do, however, that was 30 odd years ago and hopefully we've got a better police force nowadays. I don't trust the police though, which is a shame. I'd much rather avoid any kind of contact with them.

I would much rather be the 'grey man' and try not to stand out anymore than is necessary with a 7m long vehicle. As well as wanting to stay within the law, I don't want to upset any locals and damage reputation. As mentioned in my original post, I've mostly used camp sites, but I'm planning on doing more 'off grid' stuff this year and I got thinking about enjoying a couple of glasses on vino whilst watching a movie after dinner and the legality of doing so.

 

[minesapint]

Last year I predominantly used camp sites, but I'm planning on doing a bit more off-grid in the campervan this year. I started thinking about being parked up somewhere and PC Plod raps on the window, spots a glass of wine in your hand and the whole world of being drunk in charge of a vehicle comes into play. After a bit of googling, the basic advice of never starting the engine, keep the keys out the ignition, don't sit in the drivers seat if it's in the forward position. All common sense suggestions and ones I'll always adhere to.

Has anyone ever had any altercations with the boys in blue whilst parked up, or do they tend to leave you alone when they see your blinds are closed and you're not bothering anyone?

Thanks,

Arron.

Book a CL and know you are safe, and can then enjoy your beer.

 

[Pelirocco]

Yes very grey, as a trucker of 22yrs I was never approached while overnighting but I always took the ignition keys out and put them in a pocket of my jacket well away from the driving seat.

As a Transport Company owner I would be very concerned that you were drinking parked up overnight

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[Wyvern]

Speaking as an ex plod , and with a daughter who is current , The vast majority of officers have far to much to do dealing with very much cut and dried law breaking than trying to catch a parked motorhome for possible DIC .
I have never heard of a prosecution for DIC involving a motorcaravan . HTSH

As another ex plod and Son in the Service...the law is clear, if you are on a public highway in your vehicle with keys (doesn’t matter where they are) then you are in charge of the vehicle regardless of your state of dress etc. They do not need to prove intent because you are already breaking the law if over the limit.

HOWEVER - Traffic Officer numbers have been decimated and stick mainly to main routes and interception these days and response officers are just that and frankly are so busy trying to keep a lid on things they don’t know which day of the week it is!

So, if you do get pulled by Traffic AND one that wants to nail a decent member of society I would also suggest you do the lottery as well as clearly your stars are aligning.

So top tip, if you do get pulled...offer them a cuppa, it will make a nice change from being spat on and likely just to be a friendly chat.

P.S If you are on private land (a pub car park) with permission then you are safe and can get completely spanked in safety....driving the next morning May be another issue!

 

[Otter Spotter]

As a Transport Company owner I would be very concerned that you were drinking parked up overnight

Of course you would as your driver would be acting Against his employment contract and potentially could get the employer prosecuted too Should plod get involved.

 

[Cavs]

the law is clear, if you are on a public highway in your vehicle with keys (doesn’t matter where they are) then you are in charge of the vehicle regardless of your state of dress etc. They do not need to prove intent because you are already breaking the law if over the limit.

But there is a statutory defence to this, which if raised does require them to prove intent (or disprove your defence, if you prefer).

See the post below for my fuller explanation from 2015, when my knowledge was more current!
https://www.motorhomefun.co.uk/forum/threads/drink-driving.117817/post-1598033

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[gpat]

Actually not quite true. The defence requires you to do the proving. However, it is quite simple to do when you're in a motorhome. Somewhat harder in a car, but quite doable.

In your friend's case, the obvious planning involved by bringing a sleeping bag was clearly enough to persuade the court. In the motorhome's case, you've brought along the bed, toothbrush and pyjamas as well!

Since when did the fundament basis of our legal system change. Everyone is innocent until proven guilty.

 

[SpeedyDux]

Since when did the fundament basis of our legal system change. Everyone is innocent until proven guilty.

If only ... the ways our lawmakers have used to get round that "problem" by shifting the burden of proof, and the related one of removing the right not to self-incriminate, are all very sneaky. There's so many strict liability offences as well; this removes any need to prove intention.

Call me old-fashioned but bring back the presumption of innocence for all offences. (And objective tests, not Blairite subjective ones, but that's another story.)

 

[Richard-Denise]

Since when did the fundament basis of our legal system change. Everyone is innocent until proven guilty.

It's been like that for a long time, as I learned at the Police Training Centre, Sandgate, back in 1971.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[Otter Spotter]

It's been like that for a long time, as I learned at the Police Training Centre, Sandgate, back in 1971.

Same era as me but I was at Bruche

 

[Conrad J]

Surely this is a bit of a non-issue, if you park responsibly in the first place, police will have no reason to come knocking?

 

[Paulypaul]

This is just my opinion and not meant to cause offence to anyone (no pun intended) but, if the police knock on your door while you are parked legally in a laybye, you are not drinking and you are not contravening any "No overnight parking" regulations, then firstly, isn't the police officer obliged to inform you of what legislation he is acting under, which he thinks gives him the right to knock on your door in the first instance, after all, its not a moving vehicle? Knocking for a chat can't be grounds enough to warrant the approach?

Then, once they can justify the engagement under the correct legislation and provided you can comply with their request under said legislation, then surely they should just move on?

All this talk about being polite and offering cups of tea must surely be playing up to the possibility that you've been unfortunate to encounter a copper with an ego with nothing better to do?

Most traffic or ARV's would assess the situation as they drove by and I'm sure they wouldn't even stop, unless you were blatantly up to something, clear signs of alcohol consumption, music banging out, making a right nuisance of yourself etc.

My point is that, if you are parked in a bad spot, inappropriate location or look suspicious by what you are up to, then expect to attract attention of passing plod. But, if you are parked legally and are acting as the majority of us do, then why should you worry about a copper knocking on your door asking you to prove your innocence. I think the problem nowadays is that certain fractions of the police have adopted their own laws, and one of them which is widely used is the "I/we like" legislation?

The police are now under scrutiny to be seen to be acting within the law, and I don't think its unreasonable for someone who is stopped or approached, to request the officer to explain under what legislation they are acting , eg "RTA 1988 section blah blah blah" etc, before you engage with them.

It would be most unfortunate to be approached in your moho if parked in a laybye for an overnight, but if you are, I don't think we should start panicking about being able to prove our innocence, the burden of proof lay with the police, surely? and given the culture of being held to account, I'm sure most coppers have the ability to assess whether you're going to expect them to do their job properly, or whether you're the type of person they can bully?

Being polite to a police officer who has legitimately engaged with you is a courtesy we should expect to be reciprocated.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[Otter Spotter]

This is just my opinion and not meant to cause offence to anyone (no pun intended) but, if the police knock on your door while you are parked legally in a laybye, you are not drinking and you are not contravening any "No overnight parking" regulations, then firstly, isn't the police officer obliged to inform you of what legislation he is acting under, which he thinks gives him the right to knock on your door in the first instance, after all, its not a moving vehicle? Knocking for a chat can't be grounds enough to warrant the approach?

Then, once they can justify the engagement under the correct legislation and provided you can comply with their request under said legislation, then surely they should just move on?

All this talk about being polite and offering cups of tea must surely be playing up to the possibility that you've been unfortunate to encounter a copper with an ego with nothing better to do?

Most traffic or ARV's would assess the situation as they drove by and I'm sure they wouldn't even stop, unless you were blatantly up to something, clear signs of alcohol consumption, music banging out, making a right nuisance of yourself etc.

My point is that, if you are parked in a bad spot, inappropriate location or look suspicious by what you are up to, then expect to attract attention of passing plod. But, if you are parked legally and are acting as the majority of us do, then why should you worry about a copper knocking on your door asking you to prove your innocence. I think the problem nowadays is that certain fractions of the police have adopted their own laws, and one of them which is widely used is the "I/we like" legislation?

The police are now under scrutiny to be seen to be acting within the law, and I don't think its unreasonable for someone who is stopped or approached, to request the officer to explain under what legislation they are acting , eg "RTA 1988 section blah blah blah" etc, before you engage with them.

It would be most unfortunate to be approached in your moho if parked in a laybye for an overnight, but if you are, I don't think we should start panicking about being able to prove our innocence, the burden of proof lay with the police, surely? and given the culture of being held to account, I'm sure most coppers have the ability to assess whether you're going to expect them to do their job properly, or whether you're the type of person they can bully?

Being polite to a police officer who has legitimately engaged with you is a courtesy we should expect to be reciprocated.

The issue would be, how you ask the officer what legislation he is acting under, if it’s asked in even slightly belligerent manner( the old clever arse, I know my rights approach) then expect to get further scrutiny, if you engage politely and patiently then you shouldn’t get the officers Haccles (spelling) and he should be on his way pretty quick. As other posters have said, most Police have better things to do. Look at it from the positive point of view, he or she may be concerned for your welfare, or the vehicle may match a stolen one If it is then he will recover your pride and joy. Don’t always assume they are looking for a collar.

 

[billym]

P.S If you are on private land (a pub car park) with permission then you are safe and can get completely spanked in safety....driving the next morning May be another issue!

Not necessarily

Road Traffic - Drink and Drug Driving | The Crown Prosecution Service

www.cps.gov.uk

Under s.4(1) RTA 1988, it is an offence if a person drives or attempts to drive a motor vehicle on a road or other public place whilst unfit through drink or drugs. Similarly, s.4(2) RTA 1988 makes it an offence if the person is in charge of a motor vehicle when under the influence of drink or drugs.


Definition in UK law of a public place

Criminal Justice Act 1972

An Act to make further provision with respect to the administration of criminal justice, the criminal courts and the penal system, and to the methods of dealing with offenders (including the provision of new methods); to amend the law about qualification for jury service, the summoning of jurors...

www.legislation.gov.uk

 

[Paulypaul]

The issue would be, how you ask the officer what legislation he is acting under, if it’s asked in even slightly belligerent manner( the old clever arse, I know my rights approach) then expect to get further scrutiny, if you engage politely and patiently then you shouldn’t get the officers Haccles (spelling) and he should be on his way pretty quick. As other posters have said, most Police have better things to do. Look at it from the positive point of view, he or she may be concerned for your welfare, or the vehicle may match a stolen one If it is then he will recover your pride and joy. Don’t always assume they are looking for a collar.

Yes I agree, if you act in a smart arse manner you can expect to be treated as one, but as long as you're polite I'm sure most coppers will be more than happy to provide you with the information before the encounter proceeds.

However, if a copper knocked on our door and gave his reasons for knocking as they just want to check ownership etc, then for me, that's justification enough given the amount of vans being nicked, so reassuring in that respect.

I do remember a few years back being pulled with a caravan. The copper asked if I had the keys which I did, then he asked me to open the van, which I did, and he then went to get in, but I stopped him and asked him politely to remove his boots before he did. He got arsey and suggested I was obstructing, I told him I would comply as long as he took his boots off to which he refused, so I closed the door and locked it. He then suggested I could be nicked for obstruction. At that point I stopped talking and he proceeded to start looking round the caravan and car. Some 35 minutes later he said, "on you go, have a nice day". Totally unnecessary given that I proved ownership just after being stopped with the CRIS registration?

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[68c]

The officer was reasonable in refusing to remove his boots, what if you were up to no good and suddenly ran off. He would look rather silly explaining to his Sergeant why he couldn't chase after you.

 

[Paulypaul]

Mmm, point taken, but I was being reasonable in refusing entry in order to save my carpets from being spoiled. There's enough windows in a caravan to allay any suspicious he may have had, even after proof of ownership had been provided. He would have looked a tool if he had nicked me for obstruction too!

 

[rnb100]

So, I came to my 'spot' this evening in my camper and thanks to all the tips and advice I've:

• Got the van on levelling ramps.
• Silver thermal screen on.
• All blinds closed.
• Aftermarket steering lock fitted.
• Keys out the ignition.
• Put away table is up.
• Heating and hot water on.
• Netflix is on.
• Vino poured.

Hopefully that would satisfy the 5-0 if they do appear, but as there's a few campers and motorhomes on the go, I'm clearly not the pioneer of this idea.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[BillyKontiki]

Oh I dunno, according to The Antiques Roadshow, carrying a Truncheon, can be deemed as an offensive weapon these days.
L

I’ll admit it , We sometimes go to Ayr seafront for the night , we do the bars & an Indian when pubs shut , always a good night , I put the main keys in the garage , if the police asked me to move I would flatly refuse as that would be breaking the law

Love Ayr seafront. favourite pub the wee windaes.

 

[glenn2926]

Not necessarily

Road Traffic - Drink and Drug Driving | The Crown Prosecution Service

www.cps.gov.uk

Under s.4(1) RTA 1988, it is an offence if a person drives or attempts to drive a motor vehicle on a road or other public place whilst unfit through drink or drugs. Similarly, s.4(2) RTA 1988 makes it an offence if the person is in charge of a motor vehicle when under the influence of drink or drugs.


Definition in UK law of a public place

Criminal Justice Act 1972

An Act to make further provision with respect to the administration of criminal justice, the criminal courts and the penal system, and to the methods of dealing with offenders (including the provision of new methods); to amend the law about qualification for jury service, the summoning of jurors...

www.legislation.gov.uk

My pick up, my motorhome, my motorbike and my wife’s car are all parked either in my garage or outside my house now. I’ve had three pints of beer. So well over the limit. Nobody else is in charge of these vehicles, just me. Can I be charged with being drunk in charge? If not why not? How is me being in charge of my vehicles here any different than being in charge of them in a lay-by?

 

[Dramfineday]

I answered the door in my pyjamas. Strange place to have a door, but the habitation door's broken ...

Steve

Ah, a Chick Murray fan...me too.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[EuroTrotters]

Don’t do it.

unless :

you have at least 7 of the following.

Ferrell children
Transit van (colour irrelevant) owned or otherwise
Stolen 30kg calor propane bottles
Oil barrels - smoking
Unleashed dogs
Pre-related wife
Tow bar

Otherwise ASPRN Or one of his numpty colleagues from the dark side Will book you.

 

[marchie]

Ah, a Chick Murray fan...me too. '

'The lady opposite smiled sweetly and rolled her eyes toward me; so I picked them up and rolled them back again...' Give us wave from the posh seats in Edinburgh; we're in the 10 bob specials in Burntisland ...

Steve

 

[Wyvern]

My pick up, my motorhome, my motorbike and my wife’s car are all parked either in my garage or outside my house now. I’ve had three pints of beer. So well over the limit. Nobody else is in charge of these vehicles, just me. Can I be charged with being drunk in charge? If not why not? How is me being in charge of my vehicles here any different than being in charge of them in a lay-by?

Er....because you are not in your vehicle....you are at home. IF you sat in your vehicle parked on the street outside your home, over the limit and with the keys then you are potentially in charge of the vehicle and breaking the law BUT the defence would be I had no intention to drive and was just retrieving something. The fact that you were at home would therefore be a reasonable defence....engine started....another matter entirely.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[Wyvern]

And just to add, there have been 3 ex Police Officers with many decades of experience on here stating that the “don’t take the p@ss“ rule applies here. In the highly unlikely event a copper does find them selves at a loose end and decides to wreak vengence on that scourge of society the Motorhomer, I suggest don’t get falling down drunk, be courteous and all will be well.

 

[glenn2926]

Er....because you are not in your vehicle....you are at home. IF you sat in your vehicle parked on the street outside your home, over the limit and with the keys then you are potentially in charge of the vehicle and breaking the law BUT the defence would be I had no intention to drive and was just retrieving something. The fact that you were at home would therefore be a reasonable defence....engine started....another matter entirely.

When sat in your motorhome you are at home in just the same way. I certainly don’t have the keys in my hand when sat in the motorhome any more than I don’t have the keys for my vehicles in my hand when sat at home. Whether I have keys in my hand doesn’t really make any difference. I am in charge of my vehicles at all times and this appears to be the point here. I’m not sure I’ve ever seen a law that states one must be sat in ones vehicle to be in charge of it.

 

[grumps147]

Over the years in here I have noticed if anything is wrongly quoted legally, then rightly many of the law profession members here are all over it. They are quiet on this one so far, so if it was me I know which way I would be leaning.
Its beginning to go the way of a few threads on here despite some excellent advice, and the chances of an intervention on a pub car park anyway seem to be in the well under 1% level, that is unless you have upset another member of the public and they make a phone call.
Judging by many of the tv documentaries, if you have been on the road and run and get home, then your home ceases to be your castle.
The morning after advice is very pertinent, that is far more likely at be your demise with alcohol.
Illegal drugs, now that is a different matter altogether, it seems many are far more likely to fall foul of this than alcohol, science seems to regard impairment as well below what many users think is legal, and it lasts for much longer as well.
Now, it’s that time .

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[marchie]

When sat in your motorhome you are at home in just the same way. I certainly don’t have the keys in my hand when sat in the motorhome any more than I don’t have the keys for my vehicles in my hand when sat at home. Whether I have keys in my hand doesn’t really make any difference. I am in charge of my vehicles at all times and this appears to be the point here. I’m not sure I’ve ever seen a law that states one must be sat in ones vehicle to be in charge of it.

I believe that the law differentiates 'being responsible for' [in the situations you describe above]; and 'being in charge of' [having the keys, on a public highway, and, in the point at issue, being unfit to drive]. Just to change tack slightly, would there be other than a theoretical difference if you were sat in the layby, keys in hand, having a heart attack and having taken heart medication? Presume the medical emergency would take priority and that the 'unfit to drive through drug taking' wouldn't even register?

Steve [who had his heart attack on the campsite and who got a free ride in a helicopter to hospital]