Be extra careful around m25 (1 Viewer)

[ivorantony]

i wonder how London would cope if EVERYONE and EVERY COMPANY said sod it we’re not paying to go in there, trucks, coaches carrying tourists, contractors doing essential works and commuters, all of said NO we’re not going in. The capital would stop functioning, it would be on its knees.
And If it was killing my kids (what about aircraft????) I’d bloody well move!!!
I’m 52 and never been to London, nor do I intend to, the nearest I’ve got is the M25 going to chunnel and that’s out the window now, I’ll be using Stena Harwich-hook. As I said in a previous post it’s just a tax, otherwise you wouldn’t be allowed to “buy” your way in, it'd be electric or nothing.

As far as the aircraft go the majority will be landing to the west due to the prevailing winds and will predominantly be at idle thrust down the glide slope so minimum pollution deposited over London, (far less than the normal Diesel engines already operating their)
As someone living just inside the M25 with a Euro4 engined Motorhome that I have had 10 years I am Miffed to put it politely that in just over a year they will expect me to stop using her,
I will use minor roads without camera gantries to get to and from my home, as far as I’m concerned they can get stuffed,

 

[WESTY66]

We use it to get round to the chunnel at night ... (no dart charge) ... rarely get issues.
@WESTY66 Was saying they aren't going to use it any more ..just wondered why

Well for a start it’s a PIA coming home from the chunnel as soon as you hit the M25 it’s stood, all the way to and beyond the dart ford tunnel, it takes me ages to get thru there and that’s filtering on a Harley (red hot engine and an aching clutch hand) every time I go there I vow never to do it again, god only knows how long it’d have took to get thru it in a Moho!! And as I’m not familiar with the inside of the M25 I do not want to run the risk of entering the lez (well signed or not) it’s just too busy down there and I wouldn’t live inside the M25 for a gold pig!!

 

[WESTY66]

As far as the aircraft go the majority will be landing to the west due to the prevailing winds and will predominantly be at idle thrust down the glide slope so minimum pollution deposited over London

They’re NOT on idle taking off though are they, and there’s only going to be more aircraft in the coming years!

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[Spriddler]

Ultimately it's the customer who pays the charge. A pal who has a small building business just outside the LEZ either refuses work within the LEZ or just adds £100 a day to cover the various costs; parking, traffic delays etc. I've no doubt others just increase their quotations similarly.

 

[buttons]

They’re NOT on idle taking off though are they, and there’s only going to be more aircraft in the coming years!

Living in Essex as you do WESTY66 you have pollution coming from all directions, Heathrow Stanstead City Gatwick and the M25. Little wonder you are not happy with the situation.

 

[ivorantony]

They’re NOT on idle taking off though are they, and there’s only going to be more aircraft in the coming years!

Agreed BUT again the majority of the year they take off to the west, London is East so polluting will be will be out to the west by 30 miles or more with increasing altitude And due to noise constraints all the aircraft have to reduce power and there for pollution on the. Climb out,
The modern jet engine is exceptional in economy for the power it delivers and in no way like a standing line of traffic pumping out nitride oxides at pavement level or worse in the many tunnels around the capital,
It’s like comparing apple with oranges it’s a red herring,

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[Nasher]

Whilst I appreciate the warning, I'm not convinced that the original post is entirely factually accurate (the OP reposted from another source)

It refers to a call centre in Darlington, the TFL call centre is in London

It refers to a telephoning to appeal the charge, as far as I am aware apeals have to be made online or in writing

More fake news?

 

[gus-lopez]

Obviously you only see the negatives, I remember life Pre the M25 when getting anywhere east to west or west to east was a days outing. The M25 even with it's failings has transformed the most densely populated part of the British Isles, for the resident population living within it's corridor and the millions who use it in transit to the main UK hubs on the south coast.
The comparatively small area inside the M25 houses more people than the entire population of Lancashire Yorkshire and Wales combined. All they are asking is for a bit of air they can breath that wont destroy their kids lungs, is this too much to ask?

Even before the M25 I used to leave home in Ilford,Essex on the edge of east London , straight down into London ,along the embankment round the HofParliament up through Chelsea & on to the A4 & elevated section leading to the M4,then on to Caerphilly in Wales. Leave at 6am & in Caerphilly before 9.
You try doing that these days.
My nephew can't even get from South woodham ferrers , near Wickford into west London in a sensible time so has to stay over .
That's just 33miles !!!

Wether you agree with the LEZ or not its there to stay and it will spread to other cities. The problem is the drivers from other parts of the UK are totally unfamiliar with the signage. Using the internet on the move isn't practical to everyone to research a sign ... Maybe the signage needs to be included in the theory test. Or maybe new signage needs to accompany renewed driving licences .. or something to educate people. You get fined less for punching a policeman.

It isn't just the signage .The actual registration form for foreign vehicles was written by a relative of the idiot who wrote the U.S. Etias application form & assumed everyone filling it in was as thick as the Americans are.

I am a natural english speaker .If you go on the checking site we have 'motorhome'. So far so good ,you then go to the registration form where there is no motorhome anywhere on it?
When I applied years ago I had to ring them up, in Brighton, to enquire what I was supposed to do. To be told it goes in light vans , or something similar.
I had the woman on the phone whilst I completed the form, which was barely anything & I'd never have guessed what boxes to fill in so have no idea how anyone whose first language isn't English would ever cope.
& why where they in Brighton ?? They should be were they are causing the priblems & have to endure it like everyone else.

Why is the M25 out of the window. LEZ doesn't apply on there. Just the Dart Charge

Because with some parts of it being the outer edge of the LEZ when you are travelling anti clockwise & are diverted off you are immediately inside the zone.

We use it to get round to the chunnel at night ... (no dart charge) ... rarely get issues.
@WESTY66 Was saying they aren't going to use it any more ..just wondered why

As above.

The new tunnel will be along soon when normal service can be resumed...
Link Removed

@buttons You & I will both be dead before that is in service.10 years is the minimum with 20 more likely.

Everyone inside the M25 who has slabbed over their driveway (causing flooding) so they can park their car has to plant trees instead.

Good idea that's probably why it is banned now also requires planning permission for any slab over 2 square metres.
You are now only allowed to use things that allow water to permeate into the ground.

So a footballer paying the charge to run his Lambo at 10 mpg pays the charge cos he can afford to. Probably not worried in the slightest about the (outrageous) fines for accidentally entering the Forbidden City. The tradesman with a van just trying to make a living either has to indebt himself for a new van or pay the charge he can't really afford.? I sympathise for those just caught in the trap.

The footballer won't be paying as he will be putting it through the company as will any tradesman who if he is doing the work & doesn't want to change the van ,adds it on to the customers estimate/invoice.

Maybe like is done in some countries - only even reg numbers are allowed to travel one day, odds the next.

Should have been done 40 years ago in all cities. Also it should be like Japan, that if you do not have an OFF road parking space you cannot own a vehicle.This is why & where the small city car & micro car originated just for this problem.

Agreed BUT again the majority of the year they take off to the west, London is East so polluting will be will be out to the west by 30 miles or more with increasing altitude And due to noise constraints all the aircraft have to reduce power and there for pollution on the. Climb out,
The modern jet engine is exceptional in economy for the power it delivers and in no way like a standing line of traffic pumping out nitride oxides at pavement level or worse in the many tunnels around the capital,
It’s like comparing apple with oranges it’s a red herring,

Yes ,they take off to the West INTO the wind which is blowing all the shite eastwards over London the east & southwards.

Whilst I appreciate the warning, I'm not convinced that the original post is entirely factually accurate (the OP reposted from another source)

It refers to a call centre in Darlington, the TFL call centre is in London

It refers to a telephoning to appeal the charge, as far as I am aware apeals have to be made online or in writing

More fake news?

Unfortunately you are wrong.There might be an"office" in london somewhere but it certainly isn't where the workers are located.

Originally they were in Brighton, why I've no idea when they should be suffering like there customers, & now it was obviously too good down there for the workers so those in charge have moved them all to the "grimm oop north". Another place it shouldn't be.
Having dealt with the scum recently they are definitely now based in Darlington.

I would never pay any type of fine based on the way this outfit is run.
Even when they moved from a time based system where you were required to re-register to an indefinite period ( this is without notifying anyone) they managed to lose all the information on many accounts , mine included , & even knowing this never notified anyone affected!
It is an absolutely shambolic outfit . TFL is a re-arrangement of our favourite anacronym FLT but in there case the T definitley stands for To$$ers.

 

[EuroTrotters]

As I said in a previous post it’s just a tax, otherwise you wouldn’t be allowed to “buy” your way in, it'd be electric or nothing.

Could not agree more.

And why only "London"?

You try traversing Manchester!. I only do it because I have too.

So, I Manchester, they want to stop all the small delivery vans entering the city. Thats the proposal, to reduce pollution.

But, here is the Scenario......

Linda, the WAG from South Manchester has ordered her gifts to be delivered to Harvey Nichols in Manchester City Centre. Linda is going in her Range Rover to collect them the next day.

Linda calls her friend Julie in North Manchester to meet her for Lunch the next day.

The next day, Linda and Julie are allowed to pay their way to drive into Manchester in their Range Rovers. But, the DPD delivery driver cannot, as he is banned.

So, the plan then is to allow vans in, but charge the owner/driver £100 per day.

So, if the residents of the City want a repair man, xerox man or any other service, who is going to pay the charge?.

Total madness.

I am all for clean air. You only have to sit outside my Grandchildren's school in the morning. Parents sat with engines running, rain or shine. Old busses, trucks and cars belching out thick black smoke (and thats just the stuff you can see). But lets be sensible about it.

Another problem, the delays in building new roads. I have written on here about the A6(M) that was supposed to be built in the 70's. Now we have part of it, narrower than it should of been with more junctions.

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[SpeedyDux]

12 years living in London was enough. At least in those days you could drive in and out fairly easily. The air quality was no doubt terrible - approaching from the West on the M4 or A40 there was a brown haze ahead. It also had a distinctive smell. Yuk.

Somehow the air pollution failed to kill me and I escaped.

My previous VW camper was compliant but the TFL online checker said it wasn't. I didn't want to argue with TFL and left it at that. There is nothing that tempted me to visit London again, even (or especially ) the in-laws. Anyway TFL gave me an ironclad excuse.

Back on topic - I really do feel sympathy for @flatpackchicken and the way that this Greenwash Tax scam has become a very costly tarbaby for non-compliant vehicles even if intending only to use the M25 all of which is outside the LEZ. So unfair.

 

[buttons]

Even before the M25 I used to leave home in Ilford,Essex on the edge of east London , straight down into London ,along the embankment round the HofParliament up through Chelsea & on to the A4 & elevated section leading to the M4,then on to Caerphilly in Wales. Leave at 6am & in Caerphilly before 9.
You try doing that these days.
My nephew can't even get from South woodham ferrers , near Wickford into west London in a sensible time so has to stay over .
That's just 33miles !!!


It isn't just the signage .The actual registration form for foreign vehicles was written by a relative of the idiot who wrote the U.S. Etias application form & assumed everyone filling it in was as thick as the Americans are.

I am a natural english speaker .If you go on the checking site we have 'motorhome'. So far so good ,you then go to the registration form where there is no motorhome anywhere on it?
When I applied years ago I had to ring them up, in Brighton, to enquire what I was supposed to do. To be told it goes in light vans , or something similar.
I had the woman on the phone whilst I completed the form, which was barely anything & I'd never have guessed what boxes to fill in so have no idea how anyone whose first language isn't English would ever cope.
& why where they in Brighton ?? They should be were they are causing the priblems & have to endure it like everyone else.


Because with some parts of it being the outer edge of the LEZ when you are travelling anti clockwise & are diverted off you are immediately inside the zone.
As above.


@buttons You & I will both be dead before that is in service.10 years is the minimum with 20 more likely.

Good idea that's probably why it is banned now also requires planning permission for any slab over 2 square metres.
You are now only allowed to use things that allow water to permeate into the ground.


The footballer won't be paying as he will be putting it through the company as will any tradesman who if he is doing the work & doesn't want to change the van ,adds it on to the customers estimate/invoice.


Should have been done 40 years ago in all cities. Also it should be like Japan, that if you do not have an OFF road parking space you cannot own a vehicle.This is why & where the small city car & micro car originated just for this problem.




Yes ,they take off to the West INTO the wind which is blowing all the shite eastwards over London the east & southwards.



Unfortunately you are wrong.There might be an"office" in london somewhere but it certainly isn't where the workers are located.

Originally they were in Brighton, why I've no idea when they should be suffering like there customers, & now it was obviously too good down there for the workers so those in charge have moved them all to the "grimm oop north". Another place it shouldn't be.
Having dealt with the scum recently they are definitely now based in Darlington.

I would never pay any type of fine based on the way this outfit is run.
Even when they moved from a time based system where you were required to re-register to an indefinite period ( this is without notifying anyone) they managed to lose all the information on many accounts , mine included , & even knowing this never notified anyone affected!
It is an absolutely shambolic outfit . TFL is a re-arrangement of our favourite anacronym Fork Lift Truck but in there case the T definitley stands for To$$ers.

Be positive gl we will both be alive and kicking when that tunnel is up and running
Todays congestion gus, in the 70s pre the M25, nearly half (48 per cent) of all households in Great Britain did not have regular use of a car. Now I would guess that each household has at least two cars...

 

[jearing]

Steer well clear of london it's a sh#t hole anyway.

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[Time4T]

What most people seem to ignore, is the facts around increasing pollution in built up areas.
If you are in a 20 mph zone your cars engine will (if you're in the correct gear) produce 3 times the pollution per mile than when travelling at 30!

The much lauded Diesel particulate filter, has been shown by several university studies to emit more harmful emissions than a 20 year old tractor.
It's not the emissions parse but the size of the particles that the DPF allows to pass through, the very same particle that before the DPF would cling to the big particles & fall to earth!!!

There are several more examples but I don't have the time to keep repeating myself to those who refuse to listen!!

It's all bullsheet to make us invest (spend money) upgrading our vehicles.!

Phill

 

[nicholsong]

I am somewhat surprised at the many adverse comments about London.

I think a lot of them are misinformed, some admittedly totally uninformed as the writers have never been there.

I was born and brought up in my early years in 'leafy' Cheshire and have lived and worked there again as recently as '90s and often revisit.

London has been described as a 'Collection of Villages' which is true, as a lot of the districts were not connected until the last 200 years.

Admittedly some of these areas are not desirable for living and have attracted criminals and drugs.

There are many others which are highly desirable and have a real community atmosphere. I could name Dulwich, Blackheath, Hampstead, Hampton, Richmond and some others, including where I have had and still have a house in Barnes.

My house is 200m from the Thames, the duck pond and village green(Snowdrop and croci in Jan) and another 100m to the Common, for quiet picnics. Run round Richmond park was 9 miles door-to-door or to Richmond 15 miles. We had 5 good pubs including a Jazz pub with international bands.

For transport, for my two jobs at Heathrow over 11 years the drive was 25 mins. For my job in the City the time was 45 mins. by train, car or mostly bicycle.

Also we had overground train every 15 mins. to Waterloo(20 mins.) latterly free. That was access to Festival Hall and South Bank.

COST

Yes living in those areas has a cost but there are also good jobs to be had. Also when I was studying Law part-time, after a day's work, I was able to jump on a Tube for good tuition

Also the growth of the property market helps - I bought in 1974 at £12,500 and my current property is probably worth £1,5m

One sometimes has to work for the good times.

Overall I lived a good life in London in a relaxed area.

Better than leafy Cheshire in my opinion.

I would not be where I am if I had not lived in London

That is my side of the coin.

Geoff

 

[mitzimad]

Obviously you only see the negatives, I remember life Pre the M25 when getting anywhere east to west or west to east was a days outing. The M25 even with it's failings has transformed the most densely populated part of the British Isles, for the resident population living within it's corridor and the millions who use it in transit to the main UK hubs on the south coast.
The comparatively small area inside the M25 houses more people than the entire population of Lancashire Yorkshire and Wales combined. All they are asking is for a bit of air they can breath that wont destroy their kids lungs, is this too much to ask?

£12.50 a day if you want to destroy kids lungs

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[mitzimad]

I am somewhat surprised at the many adverse comments about London.

I think a lot of them are misinformed, some admittedly totally uninformed as the writers have never been there.

I was born and brought up in my early years in 'leafy' Cheshire and have lived and worked there again as recently as '90s and often revisit.

London has been described as a 'Collection of Villages' which is true, as a lot of the districts were not connected until the last 200 years.

Admittedly some of these areas are not desirable for living and have attracted criminals and drugs.

There are many others which are highly desirable and have a real community atmosphere. I could name Dulwich, Blackheath, Hampstead, Hampton, Richmond and some others, including where I have had and still have a house in Barnes.

My house is 200m from the Thames, the duck pond and village green(Snowdrop and croci in Jan) and another 100m to the Common, for quiet picnics. Run round Richmond park was 9 miles door-to-door or to Richmond 15 miles. We had 5 good pubs including a Jazz pub with international bands.

For transport, for my two jobs at Heathrow over 11 years the drive was 25 mins. For my job in the City the time was 45 mins. by train, car or mostly bicycle.

Also we had overground train every 15 mins. to Waterloo(20 mins.) latterly free. That was access to Festival Hall and South Bank.

COST

Yes living in those areas has a cost but there are also good jobs to be had. Also when I was studying Law part-time, after a day's work, I was able to jump on a Tube for good tuition

Also the growth of the property market helps - I bought in 1974 at £12,500 and my current property is probably worth £1,5m

One sometimes has to work for the good times.

Overall I lived a good life in London in a relaxed area.

Better than leafy Cheshire in my opinion.

I would not be where I am if I had not lived in London

That is my side of the coin.

Geoff

tired of london tired of life someone said i love living in london but it is getting to be hard work with parking charges ulez etc ive got two years to get out or spend 30k on new vehicles i wonder if i could get crowd funded?

 

[chaser]

£12.50 a day if you want to destroy kids lungs

if they dont want any lungs destroying why do they continue to live in the shithole when they could move out into a house at half what they now live in?

 

[buttons]

I am somewhat surprised at the many adverse comments about London.

I think a lot of them are misinformed, some admittedly totally uninformed as the writers have never been there.

I was born and brought up in my early years in 'leafy' Cheshire and have lived and worked there again as recently as '90s and often revisit.

London has been described as a 'Collection of Villages' which is true, as a lot of the districts were not connected until the last 200 years.

Admittedly some of these areas are not desirable for living and have attracted criminals and drugs.

There are many others which are highly desirable and have a real community atmosphere. I could name Dulwich, Blackheath, Hampstead, Hampton, Richmond and some others, including where I have had and still have a house in Barnes.

My house is 200m from the Thames, the duck pond and village green(Snowdrop and croci in Jan) and another 100m to the Common, for quiet picnics. Run round Richmond park was 9 miles door-to-door or to Richmond 15 miles. We had 5 good pubs including a Jazz pub with international bands.

For transport, for my two jobs at Heathrow over 11 years the drive was 25 mins. For my job in the City the time was 45 mins. by train, car or mostly bicycle.

Also we had overground train every 15 mins. to Waterloo(20 mins.) latterly free. That was access to Festival Hall and South Bank.

COST

Yes living in those areas has a cost but there are also good jobs to be had. Also when I was studying Law part-time, after a day's work, I was able to jump on a Tube for good tuition

Also the growth of the property market helps - I bought in 1974 at £12,500 and my current property is probably worth £1,5m

One sometimes has to work for the good times.

Overall I lived a good life in London in a relaxed area.

Better than leafy Cheshire in my opinion.

I would not be where I am if I had not lived in London

That is my side of the coin.

Geoff

Hi nicholsong I will be spending New Years eve in Wimbledon while staying over with friends in Teddington say no more, what do they know about this fantastic World City....

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[chaser]

Hi nicholsong I will be spending New Years eve in Wimbledon while staying over with friends in Teddington say no more, what do they know about this fantastic World City....

that pretty much sums it up, a city full of forigners that the rest of the country has to pay to get in to.

 

[WESTY66]

Living in Essex as you do WESTY66 you have pollution coming from all directions, Heathrow Stanstead City Gatwick and the M25. Little wonder you are not happy with the situation.

I live in Yorkshire, I don’t give a toss about London, never been, prob never will

 

[WESTY66]

if they dont want any lungs destroying why do they continue to live in the shithole when they could move out into a house at half what they now live in?

That’s what the HS2 is for

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[buttons]

I live in Yorkshire, I don’t give a toss about London, never been, prob never will

Sorry Westy66 it was your Avatar it said you lived in Gods own country which in anyone's money has to be Essex...…

 

[gus-lopez]

if they dont want any lungs destroying why do they continue to live in the shithole when they could move out into a house at half what they now live in?

Work & being like hamsters on the treadmill.

 

[Jagtazman]

Just wait till realise need more money and start taxing on m25 also!!
I checked the lez last year and my Euro 4 engine was fine however with the new rules coming in needs to be Euro 6.
So I am except for LEZ but have to pay for ULEZ zones

're OP I would not have paid and written a letter of complaint. If followed legitimate diversion which took me into LEZ you should be excempt.

However reminds me a road in town a few year go when some jokers changed the 30mph signs to 40mph.
Loads of peeps got speeding tickets. Police were aware signs had been changed and changed them back but refused cancel speeding tickets unless you complained and pointed out the change of signs. If you did this you got the ticket cancelled and points removed.
It's all one sided.

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[dryad]

just wondering where all the money that is raised in charges and fines goes to? to help those affected by the pollution or.........?

 

[nicholsong]

I am confused, even after scouring the Tfl/LEZ/ULEZ website.

I currently have a house in the LEZ and a MH which is exempt.

From Oct 2021 the house will be within the ULEZ and the MH will not be exempt.

At present if I went to my house with a non-exempt MH I would incur a charge of £200. If I go to my house with a non-exempt MH after Oct 2012 I will have to pay £12.50

It seems Tfl have tightened the emissions criteria but significantly reduced the cost of non-compliance.

Seems crazy.

 

[tuscancouple]

There was a large consulation carried out for residents and road users before the ULEZ was established. Details are here:

https://consultations.tfl.gov.uk/en...ltation-phase-3b/?cid=airquality-consultation

Would appear there is support for the zone, if you believe everything you read

Mick

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[gus-lopez]

There was a large consulation carried out for residents and road users before the ULEZ was established. Details are here:

https://consultations.tfl.gov.uk/en...ltation-phase-3b/?cid=airquality-consultation

Would appear there is support for the zone, if you believe everything you read

Mick

that's because the vast majority never knew about the 'consultation', or never responded .If it was to be done honestly they should have notified all & every person living/renting in London along with those businesses that travel in & out .If they had done that it would have been a resounding no. That's also why it wasn't done just using contact via TFL users etc. So as to get the reponse from the only ones from whom they could guarantee getting support. Even then they struggled barely getting a majority.

just wondering where all the money that is raised in charges and fines goes to? to help those affected by the pollution or.........?

Overseas aid. Indias space programme other stuff like that. It doesn't have anything to do with creating ways of reducing pollution.

 

[Cheshirecat57]

The reason I bought a Euro 6 is so that I can stay as far away from London as possible purely based on MY CHOICE as opposed to being told that I cant go by someone else

 

[nicholsong]

that's because the vast majority never knew about the 'consultation', or never responded .If it was to be done honestly they should have notified all & every person living/renting in London along with those businesses that travel in & out .If they had done that it would have been a resounding no. That's also why it wasn't done just using contact via TFL users etc. So as to get the reponse from the only ones from whom they could guarantee getting support. Even then they struggled barely getting a majority.

I own a house there and they did not contact me.

Geoff

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