Battery problems

[smiffy64]

As I write this I am 150 miles from home.

My leisure battery has been showing that it is not holding charge for a wee while now. Or at least I thought it was the leisure battery.

We did a short 50 mile trip between last two sites. But the van's battery charge warning light came on with around 30 miles to go.

When we did arrive, the red battery warning light for the van was flashing in the Dethleffs control panel as well.

When plugging into EHU, both batteries then show full charge on the panel. Although the leisure battery indicates three lights draw even with nothing switched on.
As a process of elimination, I want to isolate the leisure battery. There are two large yellow spade type fuses next to it.
Do I remove these to isolate?

It looks like my van battery could be dead, or maybe both, and now it even looks like the alternator is failing. Whatever it is it's serious.
When I look at the live connection to the van battery, it has a flat connection bar/plate with the main thicker cable and three smaller ones.
So will any Fiat Ducato specified battery do, or is there a specific one for motorhomes?

If all I need to do to get me home is to take it to Quick Fit, then that will do for now.

Cheers,
Raymond.

 

[jockaneezer]

When you say "the van's battery charging warning light came on", do you mean the little red light on the dashboard ? If it is the dashboard light, it could be your alternator has failed/is failing or it's drive belt is slack or slipping.
You're van panel is showing full charge on EHU because it's reading the voltage that the on-board charger is delivering, it will take many hours to fully charge them if they are as flat as you say.
How old is your van and what sort of mileage has it done ?

 

[peterc10]

And how old are the batteries

 

[Just smiffy]

I’d go for the alternator and belt too, take it too any garage and they’ll easily be able to check. Then worry about batteries...

 

[PhilandMena]

Jockandneejer has nailed it. It's a classic sign of a failed alternator. Start your engine and put a volt meter on your cab battery, this will confirm if your Alternator is working. If it has failed you will know why both sets of batteries have gone flat.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[smiffy64]

I assume that the batteries are the age of the van. So coming up for eight years. After having it on EHU for 21 hours, and the light (the dashboard one) comes on immediately, and the charge in both batteries drops like a stone. Could this still be the symptom of a faulty alternator? I would have thought it would have held the charge a bit longer.

 

[Just smiffy]

Unfortunately it sounds like the alternator failure has goosed your batteries....

 

[autorouter]

This is a situation where you really need to measure voltages to get a sensible idea about what is going on. You can get a cheap multimeter for a tenner, that will be fine for this job.

Set it to the 20V DC range, and put the test leads actually on the battery terminals. Press hard to cut through any layer of crud. You should get a reading of between 10 and 15 volts.

First measure the starter battery, with nothing taking power or providing power. EHU disconnected, solar isolated, ignition off, all lights off etc.
Then start the engine, and measure the voltage again. If it has risen by a couple of volts, then the alternator is working. If it's the same, or has gone down, then the alternator is not charging the battery.

You can do the same for the leisure battery, and presumably the result will be the same.

As well as a faulty alternator, it could also be bad connections (loose or dirty) or bad earth strap connection, mice chewing the cable and a few other similar possibilities.

 

[smiffy64]

Unfortunately it sounds like the alternator failure has goosed your batteries....

So it a disaster upon a disaster, 150 miles from home and it's peeing down. Perfect...

I am going to guess that once the battery is totally flat then the van will stall. So not safe to even try I am guessing.

To travel any distance I mean.

 

[nicholsong]

Also check the earthing strap is tight and not corroded, because if there is no -ve return then you have no charging circuit so alternator output, even if working, is going nowhere.

It is a common fault with electrical problems and easily solved.

Maybe you need a garage to do that for you if you are not savvy with electrics.

Geoff

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[HandyAndy]

Pr

This is a situation where you really need to measure voltages to get a sensible idea about what is going on. You can get a cheap multimeter for a tenner, that will be fine for this job.

Set it to the 20V DC range, and put the test leads actually on the battery terminals. Press hard to cut through any layer of crud. You should get a reading of between 10 and 15 volts.

First measure the starter battery, with nothing taking power or providing power. EHU disconnected, solar isolated, ignition off, all lights off etc.
Then start the engine, and measure the voltage again. If it has risen by a couple of volts, then the alternator is working. If it's the same, or has gone down, then the alternator is not charging the battery.

You can do the same for the leisure battery, and presumably the result will be the same.

As well as a faulty alternator, it could also be bad connections (loose or dirty) or bad earth strap connection, mice chewing the cable and a few other similar possibilities.

Pretty much follow this well explained advice above if you have the ability. If not, your best bet is taking it straight to a garage before it gets so flat it wont start. In a normal working day a garage should be able to tell you what's wrong in minutes.

 

[smiffy64]

I have just found a local MH and caravan mechanic very close to where I am. At last, some luck!

Thanks for your advice everyone. I will let you know the outcome.

 

[Jake Royd]

Test a battery after about at least 4 or 5 hours resting, ie. not being used or charged.
10.8v or so (or lower) is a dead battery that likely won't come back to life.

When charging from the charger or the engine alternator you should see about 14.5v.
If with the engine running you don't see this it is as others have advised probably a failed alternator.

A fully charged, resting, battery will show about 12.9v

 

[TerryL]

I had a car once that suffered intermittent problems with the alternator. I took it in to a garage for an exchange unit but of course when they tested it was working perfectly. I had to insist they changed it - and had no further problems.

You're probably half-way sorted now but do you have any breakdown cover? They'll identify any problem in minutes.

 

[smiffy64]

Now we are getting somewhere.... We have just had a very nice guy and obviously very knowledgeable MH and caravan specialist look out our battery and alternator. He had all the good gear. Took about 45 minutes to come to the conclusion that my alternator is indeed knackered. The van battery is good, but the leisure battery is not.

Took the very reasonable fee of nothing at all even though I insisted. How come these guys are too far away! If he was 50 miles instead of 150 miles from me I would get him to do everything related to habitat, no question.
Keith Walsh from Portsoy, Moray if any of you are in the area. He has a website. www.convenientcaravansolutions.co.uk


Incidentally, I am on a very important mission to collect two new puppies. It has now turned into a saga.

The local garage cannot fix the alternator this week, so I have ordered an extra battery. I will swap over close to half way. Holidays are meant to de-stress. Not this one!

So all of your individual comments and input were correct, and also your advice and knowledge as usual is spot on.

So thankyou all. I will still struggle to sleep tonight to see what tomorrow will bring.

Cheers,
Raymond

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[Just smiffy]

Well you got away with the cab battery so not a total loss... and after 8yrs it was coming up for the hab batteries at least... but as usual it always happens at the most awkward time, like why does the gas run out in the middle of the night...

glad your getting sorted.... there’s lots of info on here for batteries and recommendations... I’ve recently bought Excide G80 gels from Tanya batterie.. I had banner AGM’s before.

 

[autorouter]

Maybe this is stating the obvious, but you should find somewhere with EHU, and connect it up to charge the engine battery. It will take several hours, depending on exactly how the charger works. The voltage while charging is not a good indicator of how charged the battery is. It needs several hours at 14.5 volts to fill up a big flat battery.

When driving with a bad alternator, drive in daylight to avoid using headlights. Cut down on the fan, and windscreen wipers. I know it's an old joke to avoid pressing the brake so the brake lights don't turn on, but if you're stopped in traffic, put the handbrake on and release the brake pedal.

 

[TerryL]

but if you're stopped in traffic, put the handbrake on and release the brake pedal.

Wish everyone would do that, especially at night and even more so in the wet. With almost every vehicle having hi-level brake lights the amount shining in your eyes, even if it is red, is still very distracting and sometimes very uncomfortable. I believe it's also mentioned in the Highway Code and I'm sure driving instructors teach it too. Some folk are just lazy.

Sorry about the hi-jack - pet hate of mine!

 

[peterc10]

Wish everyone would do that, especially at night and even more so in the wet. With almost every vehicle having hi-level brake lights the amount shining in your eyes, even if it is red, is still very distracting and sometimes very uncomfortable. I believe it's also mentioned in the Highway Code and I'm sure driving instructors teach it too. Some folk are just lazy.

Sorry about the hi-jack - pet hate of mine!

Interesting one this. My car has auto stop, as did the previous two. When you stop by braking the engine switches off after a couple of seconds and when you take your foot off the brake it automatically starts. But it only works on the foot brake. If I engage the hand brake and take my foot off the brake the engine restarts.

So what do I do? Save petrol and the planet; or have a bright light on behind? Answers please on a postcard ..........................

 

[funflair]

If it's in Neutral or park for an auto it should stay stopped foot off the brake, take it back

Martin

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[peterc10]

If it's in Neutral or park for an auto it should stay stopped foot off the brake, take it back

Martin

Martin, if that was aimed at me that will not solve the dilemma. The only way the engine stays stopped is with my foot on the brake. Take it off and it will automatically restart the engine no matter whether it is in drive or neutral. That is how it is designed; it is to reduce emissions in stop/start traffic.

 

[HandyAndy]

Interesting one this. My car has auto stop, as did the previous two. When you stop by braking the engine switches off after a couple of seconds and when you take your foot off the brake it automatically starts. But it only works on the foot brake. If I engage the hand brake and take my foot off the brake the engine restarts.

So what do I do? Save petrol and the planet; or have a bright light on behind? Answers please on a postcard ..........................

Tell the cretins in the factory to link in to the handbrake switch ??

 

[funflair]

Martin, if that was aimed at me that will not solve the dilemma. The only way the engine stays stopped is with my foot on the brake. Take it off and it will automatically restart the engine no matter whether it is in drive or neutral. That is how it is designed; it is to reduce emissions in stop/start traffic.

Yes, I know what it's for all aoto that I have driven stayed stoped in Park but certainly drive only with foot on brake.

Martin

 

[peterc10]

Tell the cretins in the factory to link in to the handbrake switch ??

You are going to have tell a lot of "cretins" then. It has been the same in the last 3 cars I have had. And I have also noticed that exactly the same system is on the auto hire cars we have in the States.

Get yer pen out and start writing. Afraid I can't give you all the addresses but you can always google them. I will be interested in seeing any replies you get from them. They will probably end with "off", but I am not sure what they will start with

Yes, I know what it's for all aoto that I have driven stayed stoped in Park but certainly drive only with foot on brake.

Martin

The whole point of having an auto car is to not have to be stirring the bloody stick all the time .................. and especially when in stop/start traffic. I am too old for that bother now.

All of this means I will keep my foot on the brake and try to save petrol and the planet. I can only suggest that those who are unfortunate enough to be behind me in stop/start traffic put on sunglasses

 

[smiffy64]

The good news is I managed to get home safely. I bought a new battery for peace of mind and I swapped it over after 60 miles. No heating, no lights, and yes I did use the handbrake. I even resisted sounding my horn on two occasions for the usual cretins that do not give a damn that you are in a big heavy vehicle.
One of the sites I used on the trip allowed me to revisit and use their facilities for a charity donation, which was very nice off them, so that I could attempt to charge the original battery. I have a CTEK MX7 and it said that it was down to a half. It was taking too long though so I decided to swap batteries and just get on with the journey, as it gets dark around 5 at this time in Scotland.

Did the last 90 miles on the new battery, but when I put it on the charger at home it showed as completely depleted. So it looks like I may have 'pushed my luck' a bit.

So all I have to do now is put up the mechanics telling me it is the worst case scenario and that I will need a new alternator. One has already said that he will order one in even though he has not looked at the van yet. Hmmm.

Thanks for the advice folks.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[Lenny HB]

One has already said that he will order one in even though he has not looked at the van yet. Hmmm.

You will then end up with a standard alternator a lot of Motorhomes have uprated alternator. Need to get the part number off the alternator before ordering.

 

[dabhand]

Martin, if that was aimed at me that will not solve the dilemma. The only way the engine stays stopped is with my foot on the brake. Take it off and it will automatically restart the engine no matter whether it is in drive or neutral. That is how it is designed; it is to reduce emissions in stop/start traffic.

My landy has a bypass switch to turn eco mode off, don’t want my engine to go stop when I’m traversing the okapongo delta now fo I?

 

[TerryL]

You will then end up with a standard alternator a lot of Motorhomes have uprated alternator. Need to get the part number off the alternator before ordering.

When our alternator failed the RAC took us to a garage, pre-warning them of the problem (it was where the RAC vans were actually based). However when we got there the guy said he would not order a replacement until he had checked which one it was, apparently there are 4 different alternators for my chassis.

 

[smiffy64]

You will then end up with a standard alternator a lot of Motorhomes have uprated alternator. Need to get the part number off the alternator before ordering.

That is good to know as I did not know this. I have it booked in to a local mechanic who supposedly is the only one in my local area that can MOT a motor home. So I am assuming he will know this. But I am a very cynical person when it comes to mechanics, so I will insist that he shows me the old alternator and even takes pictures to prove he has fitted the new one. I will also mention this fact that you informed me of just in case. I will also ask him to show me the packaging and the part number.
I have just realised that I am talking as if I expect the worse case scenario, but yes this is mechanics we are talking about so it will be the worst regardless if it is actually the earthing strip, regulator or simply needs tightening on the belt.

Look at me...I am already quoting what I have just learned from you guys as if I am an expert.

But going in tomorrow being informed might help me get an honest service. Wish me luck

 

[gus-lopez]

Sorry about the hi-jack - pet hate of mine!

& mine.

t. I can only suggest that those who are unfortunate enough to be behind me in stop/start traffic put on sunglasses

Main beam also stops the glare. I use it to remove the glare from rear fog lights left on & so making you unable to see the brake lights coming on on occasions. Don't ask me how it does it but it does.