Battery problem, even having emailed manufacturer

[Dee101]

I sent this to the battery manufacturer today…

Hello, I have a motorhome that has 2 Yuasa batteries in parallel. The var code reads:
5 050694 030277. Type L26-70.
Can you please advice me what is the largest current that I can use to recharge them. Both via a dc to dc battery charger, and by charging via the mains with a portable battery charger. And could you please express your reply in amp hours.
Kind Regards

This was the reply, which was not entirely what I wanted….

Good afternoon
General charging recommendations are 14.4V ± 0.2V on bulk/fast charge, and 13.6V ± 0.2V on float/standby charge, both quoted at 25°C. Current input should be limited to 1/10th label capacity for general recharging and 25% of label capacity for fast/boost charge. Note that fast/boost should be used sparingly due to the risk of generating excess heat.
The two batteries in parallel would be 140A so you would look for a charger with an output of around 14A.
I cannot express the reply in Ah.
Best regards
Christian

So to sum up…

I suppose I should have mentioned that I WISH to install a Victron 30ah dc to dc charger. But it’s more than the 14ah he’s mentioned anyway.
Yet elsewhere I’ve been told that 30ah would be fine with my batteries. Can anyone please let me know pretty definitively?

 

[Hoovie]

I sent this to the battery manufacturer today…

Hello, I have a motorhome that has 2 Yuasa batteries in parallel. The var code reads:
5 050694 030277. Type L26-70.
Can you please advice me what is the largest current that I can use to recharge them. Both via a dc to dc battery charger, and by charging via the mains with a portable battery charger. And could you please express your reply in amp hours.
Kind Regards

This was the reply, which was not entirely what I wanted….

Good afternoon
General charging recommendations are 14.4V ± 0.2V on bulk/fast charge, and 13.6V ± 0.2V on float/standby charge, both quoted at 25°C. Current input should be limited to 1/10th label capacity for general recharging and 25% of label capacity for fast/boost charge. Note that fast/boost should be used sparingly due to the risk of generating excess heat.
The two batteries in parallel would be 140A so you would look for a charger with an output of around 14A.
I cannot express the reply in Ah.
Best regards
Christian

So to sum up…

I suppose I should have mentioned that I WISH to install a Victron 30ah dc to dc charger. But it’s more than the 14ah he’s mentioned anyway.
Yet elsewhere I’ve been told that 30ah would be fine with my batteries. Can anyone please let me know pretty definitively?

Well, you should consider the information from the manufacturer as definitive really shouldn't you? They have to be the most authoritive source on their own battery rather than various members of a forum?
As a bit of a rule of thumb, standard Lead Acid batteries have a C/10 (10%) charge rate and AGM Batteries often have a C/4 (25%) rate, but that is a rule of thumb only. If you have been told specifically otherwise ....

I don't think the Orion-TR Smart Chargers can be configured to a lower rate than specified to give you the flexibility to occasionally go at at higher rate, so if you don't want go against the advice of the people who made your batteries, maybe buying the Orion-Tr 18A might be a better idea? an 18A rate is not too bad and will be close enough to the 14A really, plus you will save a fair bit of money in the process.

 

[Lenny HB]

Generally the max charging rate is the C5 rate but depends on battery construction & most can handle a lot more, for your 70 ah batteries that would be 14 amps so two in parallel it would be 28 amps. So I think they will be OK with your B2B.
I think they have quoted you the max charge rate for a single battery, I looked up the spec on your batteries but they don't give a max charge rate.

 

[Hoovie]

Generally the max charging rate is the C5 rate but depends on battery construction & most can handle a lot more, for your 70 ah batteries that would be 14 amps so two in parallel it would be 28 amps. So I think they will be OK with your B2B.
I think they have quoted you the max charge rate for a single battery, I looked up the spec on your batteries but they don't give a max charge rate.

Lenny, have a look at this site - https://www.yuasa.co.uk/batteries/leisure-marine-garden/leisure-batteries/l26-70.html and download the Data Sheet.
On that, they actually have the recommended charge rate at just 4A!

on the reply they did say a C/4 (or C4) rate was ok sparingly, so yes a 30A B2B could be fine for a time, but how little is "sparingly"?

Yuasa batteries have a good reputation, but the documented specs are always very pessimistic - but who are we to say they are wrong and can be ignored?

 

[Lenny HB]

Lenny, have a look at this site - https://www.yuasa.co.uk/batteries/leisure-marine-garden/leisure-batteries/l26-70.html and download the Data Sheet.
On that, they actually have the recommended charge rate at just 4A!

Yuasa batteries have a good reputation, but the documented specs are always very pessimistic - but who are we to say they are wrong and can be ignored?

That's what I looked and assumed that was just the recommended nominal charge rate as no mention of it being a max but it did seem awfully low for a L/A.
Maybe a typo in the translation & it should be 14.

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[Hoovie]

That's what I looked and assumed that was just the recommended nominal charge rate as no mention of it being a max but it did seem awfully low for a L/A.

I would not disagree at all for that being low (and actually while I would get Yuasa as a starter, I would never get as a Leisure as the specs are always very low compared to the opposition and the prices are certainly not low to match.)
My concern would be not adhering to the specs is an instant reason to void a warranty claim even if they were not really that low in reality.

 

[Dee101]

Thanks for the replies. Given the comments, what battery/spec would you advice? They can’t be bigger and I’m not going for lithium for quite a while

 

[Spriddler]

............Can you please advice me what is the largest current that I can use to recharge them. And could you please express your reply in amp hours.

This was the reply, which was not entirely what I wanted….

Good afternoon.......................
I cannot express the reply in Ah.
Best regards
Christian

I cannot express the reply in Ah.
He can't give you a figure in Ah because Ah (Amphours) are a measure of current AND time. You charge a battery at a set current (A) but the time it takes to do so (the 'h' in Ah) depends upon to what extent the battery had been discharged before being charged.
The Ah capability is used as a capacity measure. E.g. in theory a 70Ah battery can deliver 70 amps for one hour or 35 amps for two hours, or 7 amps for ten hours.......and so on.

 

[Hoovie]

Thanks for the replies. Given the comments, what battery/spec would you advice? They can’t be bigger and I’m not going for lithium for quite a while

post a bit of info - and maybe a photo - of the battery space you have. Length, depth AND height. That will help people suggest alternatives. Also if the batteries are physically next to each other, maybe a single bigger battery could be a good choice?

 

[Dee101]

Battery bay has a useable size of 530mm x 330mm. The height of the compartment (it is in a 1995 Hymer, to the outside right of the driver. Right hand drive) is 190mm. The batteries I currently have are 220mm high. And that’s ok, as I don’t bother covering them, unless you are driving they can not be seen. The existing cover of course, doesn’t now sit right in any case.
So… the height of the battery that anyone suggests as a better version than that which I have, is not really an issue.

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[Dee101]

post a bit of info - and maybe a photo - of the battery space you have. Length, depth AND height. That will help people suggest alternatives. Also if the batteries are physically next to each other, maybe a single bigger battery could be a good choice?

Yes, that might work. I’ve sent an earlier message with dims etc. So if you could suggest something, it would be much appreciated

 

[Hoovie]

Battery bay has a useable size of 530mm x 330mm. The height of the compartment (it is in a 1995 Hymer, to the outside right of the driver. Right hand drive) is 190mm. The batteries I currently have are 220mm high. And that’s ok, as I don’t bother covering them, unless you are driving they can not be seen. The existing cover of course, doesn’t now sit right in any case.
So… the height of the battery that anyone suggests as a better version than that which I have, is not really an issue.

you have a good space for batteries.
A very common size for 100/110Ah batteries (which is a very popular capacity) is the "Group 19" size. That is 330mm long and 175mm wide, so just off the the top of my head you have plenty of room for around 200Ah (or even 300Ah!) of battery from a massive range of batteries and prices.
If the height of 190mm WAS a factor, that would make it trickier, but if you are happy with sticking with 220mm or so, you still have a great range of options.

So basically, space is not an issue and the actual question would be how much battery capacity would you like (and what is your budget).

 

[Dee101]

you have a good space for batteries.
A very common size for 100/110Ah batteries (which is a very popular capacity) is the "Group 19" size. That is 330mm long and 175mm wide, so just off the the top of my head you have plenty of room for around 200Ah (or even 300Ah!) of battery from a massive range of batteries and prices.
If the height of 190mm WAS a factor, that would make it trickier, but if you are happy with sticking with 220mm or so, you still have a great range of options.

So basically, space is not an issue and the actual question would be how much battery capacity would you like (and what is your budget).

That all sounds very good. As the height is not a problem could you suggest something in the 200ah and 300ah range? Btw, my Yuasa batteries also have this spec on the side:

 

[Hoovie]

That all sounds very good. As the height is not a problem could you suggest something in the 200ah and 300ah range? Btw, my Yuasa batteries also have this spec on the side:

View attachment 710402

I'll have a look tomorrow. I would be strongly suggesting something in the Lead Carbon area. more cost up front, but much more capable than basic Lead Acid.

 

[Hoovie]

That all sounds very good. As the height is not a problem could you suggest something in the 200ah and 300ah range? Btw, my Yuasa batteries also have this spec on the side:

View attachment 710402

The battery I would go for with the space you have and having said you are fine with the current height is the Lead Carbon GEL 110Ah Expedition Plus Battery
the dimensions are: H: 222mm x W: 172mm x L: 330mm
So the height is what you are used to. The length is JUST ok going by your measurements and you could if you wanted fit 3 of these side by side to give 330Ah capacity.
Note also these batteries don't have the 'feet' that stick out on some batteries for clamping. Those are usually not including in the dimensions and can catch people out when they find the battery is bigger than stated!

Lead Carbon offers a much better solution than the standard Lead Acid in a number of ways and this battery at under £200 is a steal (I am running three of the previous version, the Lead Carbon AGM, and they are working great).
This is a link to the battery - https://www.alpha-batteries.co.uk/1...ad-carbon-ultra-deep-cycle-battery-dc12-100c/ (ignore the 'agm' wording in the link - they reused the old link for the AGM version I have for the new GEL model).

I had a look at bigger batteries and they would not be as neat a fit for you - these 110Ah ones will fill up that space nicely.
Although bear in mind where you are fitting the B2B. the Victron Orion-TR needs a bit of space to fit and for airflow.

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[Dee101]

The battery I would go for with the space you have and having said you are fine with the current height is the Lead Carbon GEL 110Ah Expedition Plus Battery
the dimensions are: H: 222mm x W: 172mm x L: 330mm
So the height is what you are used to. The length is JUST ok going by your measurements and you could if you wanted fit 3 of these side by side to give 330Ah capacity.
Note also these batteries don't have the 'feet' that stick out on some batteries for clamping. Those are usually not including in the dimensions and can catch people out when they find the battery is bigger than stated!

Lead Carbon offers a much better solution than the standard Lead Acid in a number of ways and this battery at under £200 is a steal (I am running three of the previous version, the Lead Carbon AGM, and they are working great).
This is a link to the battery - https://www.alpha-batteries.co.uk/1...ad-carbon-ultra-deep-cycle-battery-dc12-100c/ (ignore the 'agm' wording in the link - they reused the old link for the AGM version I have for the new GEL model).

I had a look at bigger batteries and they would not be as neat a fit for you - these 110Ah ones will fill up that space nicely.
Although bear in mind where you are fitting the B2B. the Victron Orion-TR needs a bit of space to fit and for airflow.

Thank you so much for the battery info. But I don’t intend spending that kind of money. In fact I hope that the Victron b2b is ok. I also have a “spare” further 2 x Yuama 70ah batteries that I keep behind the Front seats. I have only had to use them twice, and that’s through the winter! I’m pretty careful with my electricity use.

 

[CamperManLez]

Suggest you just upgrade and buy a lithium battery, then you can charge at a high rate with no damage AND you buy the B2B only one time (the 30amp Victron or similar). Your 140ah battery setup only has max 60% of that as usable where a single 100ah lithium will give you 90%+ capacity and a faster charge rate. The lithium is much lower weight as well.
My new Lithium has a max charge rate of 50amp and I am fitting a Victron 30amp B2B.
Suggest you be careful about going overboard on charge rates, you need to look at your Alternator output specs and remember an alternator output reduces as it heats up, some good utube vids on that subject.