Battery and Solar advice please (1 Viewer)

[Minxy]

Rather than keeping taking other people's threads off at a tangent I thought I'd start my own, a bit of info first before the questions:

• We have a new Globecar Campscout (2017 model)
• We wild camp/use aires extensively and very rarely have EHU except at home
• We have a Thetford T1090 all electric (12v) fridge freezer
• The camper has a Schaudt EBL 119 Electroblock
• I'm putting on 2 x 100w solar panels

Batteries

I have discovered that unfortunately our dealer has fitted the wrong type of leisure batteries to our new Campscout, namely a pair of Calcium-Calcium 100ah ones which are a variant of lead-acid (I assume they didn't realise as most MHs will take the standard lead ones they've fitted) but our EBL only supports AGM or Gel batteries due to the charging regime. The original hab one would have been a single AGM 95ah (which they found had been left discharged for too long and not holding charge so needed replacing), hence the 2 new ones (one we paid extra for).

Hubby's rung the dealer and they've asked us to get a price for replacing them locally with the correct ones so I'm looking for advice on what to get - I'm not sure whether to go for Gel and pay the price difference ourselves between those and AGM ones (so long as it's not astronomical!) or stick with AGM however I'm concerned about reports of these not being good for long term use/failing (although the ones in our FamilyScout L have been okay). The only proviso is that they must fit under the driver's seat.


Solar

Whilst I've already ordered my solar panels I need to get a controller for them which has to be a Schaudt LR1218 (PWM), Schaudt LRM1218 (MPPT), or a suitable alternative which is compatible with the EBL if I connect it to that, or alternatively have one without going through the EBL but it has to then somehow be linked to both the hab and cab batteries.


Opinions/suggestions/examples for both batteries and solar controller welcome!

 

[Dazzlin]

Nothing wrong with AGMs if charged correctly.
Had ours 5 years full timing, Leoch 120, charged by a Votronic mpp 350.
14.7v on full charge and still appear to be good as new.
Beware ehu as it would not fully charge them on our EBL99, but we are lucky if we hook up more than once or twice a year.

 

[funflair]

I would say GEL but only because that is what we have and they work and keep working, I know a lot of people are happy with AGM but not all.

Votronic MPT solar controller has a output for EBL so I imagine that negates the need to connect through the EBL.

There are various ways to link the Hab and Cab batteries, the EBL might do it for you when the Cab batteries reach a certain voltage our CBE CSB2 does that at 13.6v, the Votronic duo would do it with a small charge diverted via its dual outputs (needs sunshine) or you could add a battery master as I did as well as the CBE CSB2 as I want to maintain the Cab battery from the Habitation side even when there is no charge being applied so I use the higher voltage from the habitation GEL's to top up the Cab battery.

Martin

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[Freespirit1]

Rather than keeping taking other people's threads off at a tangent I thought I'd start my own, a bit of info first before the questions:

• We have a new Globecar Campscout (2017 model)
• We wild camp/use aires extensively and very rarely have EHU except at home
• We have a Thetford T1090 all electric (12v) fridge freezer
• The camper has a Schaudt EBL 119 Electroblock
• I'm putting on 2 x 100w solar panels

Batteries

I have discovered that unfortunately our dealer has fitted the wrong type of leisure batteries to our new Campscout, namely a pair of Calcium-Calcium 100ah ones which are a variant of lead-acid (I assume they didn't realise as most MHs will take the standard lead ones they've fitted) but our EBL only supports AGM or Gel batteries due to the charging regime. The original hab one would have been a single AGM 95ah (which they found had been left discharged for too long and not holding charge so needed replacing), hence the 2 new ones (one we paid extra for).

Hubby's rung the dealer and they've asked us to get a price for replacing them locally with the correct ones so I'm looking for advice on what to get - I'm not sure whether to go for Gel and pay the price difference ourselves between those and AGM ones (so long as it's not astronomical!) or stick with AGM however I'm concerned about reports of these not being good for long term use/failing (although the ones in our FamilyScout L have been okay). The only proviso is that they must fit under the driver's seat.


Solar

Whilst I've already ordered my solar panels I need to get a controller for them which has to be a Schaudt LR1218 (PWM), Schaudt LRM1218 (MPPT), or a suitable alternative which is compatible with the EBL if I connect it to that, or alternatively have one without going through the EBL but it has to then somehow be linked to both the hab and cab batteries.


Opinions/suggestions/examples for both batteries and solar controller welcome!

Definitely Exide Gel - and let’s face it you havn’t spent much on the solar panels have you

 

[Minxy]

Definitely Exide Gel - and let’s face it you havn’t spent much on the solar panels have you

Nope, solar panels were relatively cheap ... just want to get a system sorted that meets our needs without going over the top.

 

[pappajohn]

You want to link your engine battery...but what type is it....LEAD ACID or AGM.
AGM are usually fitted to stop/start systems and regular lead acid to conventional starters.
If it's lead acid you may cook it using the GEL/AGM charger.

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[Wissel]

If it were me I'd be looking at the Votronic 250 Duo
Amazon product ASIN B00JYBZG96
Great value, great manufacturer (in my opinion), EBL compatible and trickle charges your starter battery,

Batteries - no idea

 

[hilldweller]

No no no no, soooooo yesterday. The only way is Lithium in this century. Such good value too.

Lithium Rules, OK.

 

[funflair]

You want to link your engine battery...but what type is it....LEAD ACID or AGM.
AGM are usually fitted to stop/start systems and regular lead acid to conventional starters.
If it's lead acid you may cook it using the GEL/AGM charger.

Most of the methods to connect the two batteries seem to by-pass very limited amps so not sure if this is a problem, certainly for over 20 years N+B have been fitting GEL habitation batteries and lead acid starter with the CBE CSB2 system, I don't know if it has a voltage cut off for the starter battery but I have not heard of any problems with it.

I think battery master transfers less than 2 amps.

Martin

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[funflair]

No no no no, soooooo yesterday. The only way is Lithium in this century. Such good value too.

Lithium Rules, OK.

To Quote @Minxy Girl "just want to get a system sorted that meets our needs without going over the top".

 

[Littlewheels]

I have a Votronic SR330 Duo Digital Solar Regulator, as new that I took out of my MH when I upgraded the Solar Power. £40.

 

[jezport]

I have a 140w solar panel IIRC.
It runs through a votronic MPPT duo regulator . Our batteries are 2x Duracell AGM.
The EBL119 is a basic unit, no current monitoring goes through it. So you can use any regulator and there is no need to go through the EBL but you can if you want.
Votronic regulators are still made in Germany. Some other top brands are now made in China.

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[Lenny HB]

I would go for Gels they have a much better track record than AGM, all the cheap AGM's (around £175- £200) are dual batteries not true leisure batteries, a few people have found them OK but most find they fail prematurely.
Sonnenschein SL75 Gel are the same as the Exide G80/ES900, Sonnenschein are an Exide company and they make the Exide Gel's. Also they are the same price, maybe a bit cheaper (around £140) than the Lion's you have at the moment.

On your EBL the solar connections are straight throungh to the batteries so you can use any regulator. I don't think you will have an LCD contol panel that is cabable of showing solar charge but if you the regulator comes down to a choice of 2 the Schaudt LRM1218 or one of the Votronic MPPT ones.
I think you said before you were fitting 200 watts of solar so a Votronic MPP250 (250 watt) would be a good choice but but if you are likley to add more panels a MPP 350 (350 watts) might be better.
For charging the engine battery the Votronic's have a 1 amp output but like Martin I prefer to use a CBE CSB2 solar split charge relay I'm not convinced that 1 amp is enough.

As you have a compressor fridge you really need to get as much out of your solar as possible so a good quality MPPT regulator is a must and if you go for Gel batteries you need one that gives a proper absorption phase for Gel's, most regulators don't.

Edit: Anyone know why my post is showing 1½ line spacing but if I go to Edit it shows single line spacing?

 

[Pausim]

I use one of these to connect my Votronic mppt directly to my ebl
Amazon product ASIN B00XVXF0QCand it works fine.

 

[Minxy]

Thanks for the info folks ... a few things to think about ...

I am considering the Voltronic 250 or 350 - whilst I don't anticipate that I'll need to add a third solar panel, if I did it would make it simple if I had the 350 especially as the cost between the 250 and 350 is about £25-£30 ... but if I don't need it then the 250 will do ... I simply don't know how well the panels/batteries will keep the fridge powered ... decisions, decisions!

As for batteries - how do Gels and AGMs compare to say a 100ah lead acid for actual usable power and also recharging? Would I be better going for a large single battery, well as large as I can fit, or 2 smaller ones?

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[Minxy]

Edit: Anyone know why my post is showing 1½ line spacing but if I go to Edit it shows single line spacing?

... 'cause you is a clever clogs ... innit!

 

[Minxy]

Nope can't replicate 1.5 spacing!

 

[Lenny HB]

As for batteries - how do Gels and AGMs compare to say a 100ah lead acid for actual usable power and also recharging? Would I be better going for a large single battery, well as large as I can fit, or 2 smaller ones?

Wet cell100a/h at 50% DOD will give you 50 a/h and a good life.
A Gel can be taken down to 80% DOD and still give a good life giving you 64a/h from an 80a/h battery.
The only disadvantage with Gels is they take longer to charge but is outweighed buy the the lower usable discharge level. Also it is best to keep max load to 20 amps from an 80 amp Gel that's 40 amps if you have 2 batteries.
Life expectancy far longer with Gels 7-10 years is quite normal.

Even when the AGM's in my last van were new. I was never happy with their performance when I changed to Gels the difference was noticeable.

My current set up is 3 Sonnenschein SL75 batteries with 3 X 100 watt panels and a Votronic MPP 350 and a CBE CSB2.
So far never taken them below 80% even charging both e- bikes.

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[pappajohn]

Most of the methods to connect the two batteries seem to by-pass very limited amps so not sure if this is a problem, certainly for over 20 years N+B have been fitting GEL habitation batteries and lead acid starter with the CBE CSB2 system, I don't know if it has a voltage cut off for the starter battery but I have not heard of any problems with it.

I think battery master transfers less than 2 amps.

Martin

But GEL charge at 14.4/14.8v.....too high for a wet acid battery which should be 13.6/13.8v.
High volts boil electrolyte, amps dictate how long it takes to charge.

 

[Lenny HB]

But GEL charge at 14.4/14.8v.....too high for a wet acid battery which should be 13.6/13.8v.
High volts boil electrolyte, amps dictate how long it takes to charge.

Nope wet cells should be charged at 14.2/14.4, the float charge is 13.6/13.8.
Wet cells only need an absorption phase of 1 hr where Gels need a minimum of 4hours preferably longer or they only get about 80% charge.

 

[pappajohn]

Nope wet cells should be charged at 14.2/14.4, the float charge is 13.6/13.8.

Yep, my bad.

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[Neckender]

Hi @Minxy Girl I fitted 200 watt of solar, 2- 95 ah Varta AGM batteries and a LRM 1218 regulator to our Campscout.
We also have the compressor Thetford fridge and my CPAP machine and to date we’ve had no problem whatsoever with battery power.
If you have the original Thetford fridge with the open back freezer we have found that it works the best on number 4 on permanent night setting.

John.

 

[kelpie]

No no no no, soooooo yesterday. The only way is Lithium in this century. Such good value too.

Lithium Rules, OK.

Lithium good for other uses too , watch Homeland.

 

[Silver-Fox]

Lithium good for other uses too , watch Homeland.

Come on then spill the beans as I don't watch that programme

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[hilldweller]

Come on then spill the beans as I don't watch that programme

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/shrink-speak/201411/homeland-true-portrayal-mental-illness

 

[hilldweller]

watch Homeland.

Sorry, I don't take in much fiction. It just seems a waste of my remaining years.

 

[kelpie]

Give it a watch , only six or seven series , by the time you finish pension age will be around 75.

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[hilldweller]

by the time you finish pension age will be around 75.

So will I be next year so you see the hours are not to be wasted.

FUN is my indulgence for time wasting.

 

[Minxy]

Hi @Minxy Girl I fitted 200 watt of solar, 2- 95 ah Varta AGM batteries and a LRM 1218 regulator to our Campscout.
We also have the compressor Thetford fridge and my CPAP machine and to date we’ve had no problem whatsoever with battery power.
If you have the original Thetford fridge with the open back freezer we have found that it works the best on number 4 on permanent night setting.

John.

I've priced up the cost of 2 x AGMs and they come out quite a bit more than 2 x gels which surprised me.

We've got the Thetford T1090 fridge like this: https://www.thetford-europe.com/product/t1090/

 

[autorouter]

The EBL119 is a basic unit, no current monitoring goes through it.

The EBL119, like many EBLs, monitor the battery current via an internal shunt. The solar regulator input, the auxiliary charger input, the mains charger output and the alternator output all pass through the internal shunt to the leisure batteries, so their current is monitored.

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