Batteries (Again) With a 6v Twist? (1 Viewer)

[IanRJ]

Hi Folks

Been contemplating (forever it seems) Lithium batteries to replace the two 90ah monsters in my battery locker, the two main reasons are:

1. 'supply anxiety', will I get stuck overnight with dead batteries, and if I have a deeper amp-hour 'well' (running lithium longer) could I run an inverter whilst off hookup for the odd microwave popcorn packet and sock drying duties and, of course, SWMBO's hairdryer.
2. Weight; Lead Acid batteries just seem so heavy for the actual power output available (maybe 60-70% useable output?).

I could possibly get two 100ah lithiums and would then have 200ah deep drain (80% useable) facility at 12v, or one giant 200ah lithium at 12v. The first option seems like the lithium advantage over Lead Acid batteries is a deeper drain, so more useful operating time after charging, though still a similar actual ah as a LA. The second option offers the above but in one battery.

The cost is, of course, the challenge. Two 100ah lithiums at min £1200 and the monster 200ah at £3000+.

Having read many times that American RV'ers often use banks of 6v batteries to replace their 12v's I started to look around. It seems that for a similar footprint area I can replace my two 90ah 12v batteries for four 200ah 6v batteries. Wired in series (two banks of two batteries with 200ah @ 12v each bank) and then parallel the four 6v'ers would offer 400ah at 12v (hope I got that right). Not quite as deep drain as lithium I believe but more than 70%, and since these 6v'ers have 3 cells each, which are heavily separated in the battery shell, it is possible to have a cell changed should one fail, rather than a battery replacement?

Price is between £130 and £230 each, depending on the maker, but the expensive Trojans are those used as deep drain batteries for golf carts and forklifts etc, so seem to have a very long life and very deep drain capabilities. They can (apparently) be totally discharged, recovered and recharged?

Is this the huge benefit over 12v'ers or lithiums that it looks like on the surface??? Anyone else gone this route, or considered it and then done something differently?

Please explain why I'm an idiot and how this will never work, or at least how I will die horribly as a result of even trying it???

IanRJ

 

[JohnJan]

Am looking forward to the techy answers on this one. Seems like a winner initially.

 

[eddie]

Ah you forgot to calculate the weight factor

I have two Sterling Lithium batteries in my camper, each weighing about 15kg replacing the American 110Ah lead acid weighing 32kg

so doubled my power halved the weight

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[John Barrett]

Hi Folks

Been contemplating (forever it seems) Lithium batteries to replace the two 90ah monsters in my battery locker, the two main reasons are:

1. 'supply anxiety', will I get stuck overnight with dead batteries, and if I have a deeper amp-hour 'well' (running lithium longer) could I run an inverter whilst off hookup for the odd microwave popcorn packet and sock drying duties and, of course, SWMBO's hairdryer.
2. Weight; Lead Acid batteries just seem so heavy for the actual power output available (maybe 60-70% useable output?).

I could possibly get two 100ah lithiums and would then have 200ah deep drain (80% useable) facility at 12v, or one giant 200ah lithium at 12v. The first option seems like the lithium advantage over Lead Acid batteries is a deeper drain, so more useful operating time after charging, though still a similar actual ah as a LA. The second option offers the above but in one battery.

The cost is, of course, the challenge. Two 100ah lithiums at min £1200 and the monster 200ah at £3000+.

Having read many times that American RV'ers often use banks of 6v batteries to replace their 12v's I started to look around. It seems that for a similar footprint area I can replace my two 90ah 12v batteries for four 200ah 6v batteries. Wired in series (two banks of two batteries with 200ah @ 12v each bank) and then parallel the four 6v'ers would offer 400ah at 12v (hope I got that right). Not quite as deep drain as lithium I believe but more than 70%, and since these 6v'ers have 3 cells each, which are heavily separated in the battery shell, it is possible to have a cell changed should one fail, rather than a battery replacement?

Price is between £130 and £230 each, depending on the maker, but the expensive Trojans are those used as deep drain batteries for golf carts and forklifts etc, so seem to have a very long life and very deep drain capabilities. They can (apparently) be totally discharged, recovered and recharged?

Is this the huge benefit over 12v'ers or lithiums that it looks like on the surface??? Anyone else gone this route, or considered it and then done something differently?

Please explain why I'm an idiot and how this will never work, or at least how I will die horribly as a result of even trying it???

IanRJ

I fitted 6v Trojans in my old SHE 36 yacht. Excellent performance and reliability at sensible money.
Lithiums? Law of diminishing returns applies here methinks.
John

 

[John Barrett]

Ah you forgot to calculate the weight factor

I have two Sterling Lithium batteries in my camper, each weighing about 15kg replacing the American 110Ah lead acid weighing 32kg

so doubled my power halved the weight

Very nice, but you would have got yours at trade price!
John
Edit. Did you replace a single 110Ah battery?

 

[IanRJ]

Ah you forgot to calculate the weight factor

I have two Sterling Lithium batteries in my camper, each weighing about 15kg replacing the American 110Ah lead acid weighing 32kg

so doubled my power halved the weight

As I mentioned I'd like a weight saving and especially for the power LA offers, but to double the power at about the same weight as currently seems attractive?

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[IanRJ]

I fitted 6v Trojans in my old SHE 36 yacht. Excellent performance and reliability at sensible money.
Lithiums? Law of diminishing returns applies here methinks.
John

How many have you got on your boat? Any feedback on the capability to drain them beyond 80%? What was the weight of the ones you have?

 

[Minxy]

What about gel? They can be discharged to 80%.

 

[John Barrett]

How many have you got on your boat? Any feedback on the capability to drain them beyond 80%? What was the weight of the ones you have?

It was 20 years ago! I fitted two of these to run all the systems including radar, fridge and heater. No problems ever.

2x Trojan T105 Multi Purpose, Flooded Deep-Cycle Batteries

2x Trojan T105 Multi Purpose, Flooded Deep-Cycle Batteries product brought to you by BMS Technologies LTD Offering free next working day delivery.

www.batterymegastore.co.uk

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[Arthur01]

Hi
Well the lithium was out of the question for us but as our 2x12v, house bank was struggling I spoke with Adi4 as he is the man that knows.
4x6v wet cell Trojans were the batteries of choice for all sorts of technical reasons but most of all cost.
As it transpired Adi is also a Trojan stockist as well so the supply, installation & warranty is all in one place (his garage in Weymouth).
Adi is a bit of a wizard with all things RV including electrickery, so it may be a suggestion to contact him for advice on the subject.
Adi & Cassie are members on here & RVOC
Broken Link Removed

 

[IanRJ]

Hi
Well the lithium was out of the question for us but as our 2x12v, house bank was struggling I spoke with Adi4 as he is the man that knows.
4x6v wet cell Trojans were the batteries of choice for all sorts of technical reasons but most of all cost.
As it transpired Adi is also a Trojan stockist as well so the supply, installation & warranty is all in one place (his garage in Weymouth).
Adi is a bit of a wizard with all things RV including electrickery, so it may be a suggestion to contact him for advice on the subject.
Adi & Cassie are members on here & RVOC
Broken Link Removed

Thanks Arthur

 

[Nasher]

I'm watching this thread with interest - my leisure battery is getting old and I'm looking at options to replace

In the meantime, my Clarke generator solves any potential 'supply anxiety' issues

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[IanRJ]

It was 20 years ago! I fitted two of these to run all the systems including radar, fridge and heater. No problems ever.

2x Trojan T105 Multi Purpose, Flooded Deep-Cycle Batteries

2x Trojan T105 Multi Purpose, Flooded Deep-Cycle Batteries product brought to you by BMS Technologies LTD Offering free next working day delivery.

www.batterymegastore.co.uk

WOW according to the specs that battery alone is 28kg? Perhaps I need to check the availability of the Trojans and the specs again!

 

[John Barrett]

I'm watching this thread with interest - my leisure battery is getting old and I'm looking at options to replace

In the meantime, my Clarke generator solves any potential 'supply anxiety' issues

Agreed. I would have a Honda 2KvA silent instead of two Lithium batteries.

 

[Nasher]

My Clarke one cost me £180 delivered a few years ago - I've spent the difference on women & motorbikes (apart from the bit I frittered away!)

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[IanRJ]

Agreed. I would have a Honda 2KvA silent instead of two Lithium batteries.

If they were really silent I'd go for one of those too - but they are NOT. Anoy the crap out of anyone around you, though great in an emergency. Spent many a week (in my flying days) at Breighton running the Genny for 3 hours a day parked by the runway strip! Even the guy in the scrapyard next door complained and he was used to aircraft LOL.

 

[Dazzlin]

I fitted a pair of 6v Trojans in our 'new' Hymer. Wanted a good AH (235) capacity as we run a standard fridge run off an inverter.
Pleased with the performance of them so far, though only been on the drive due to lockdown, but using all the facilities.
I have read they like higher voltage bulk charging, up to 14.7v

We had two 110ah AGMs our first van and I only went for the wet batteries for a change, to try something new. We ran the AGMs with the correct charging system (14.7v bulk charge) and successfully used them for over 5 years when full-time.
Charged from solar through a Votronic regulator on agm setting and still going strong when we sold the van.

AGM, Gel and 6v traction batteries have the cost advantage and ability to go down to 80% discharge, but the lithium save a lot on payload...

 

[joe and sue]

Hi
Well the lithium was out of the question for us but as our 2x12v, house bank was struggling I spoke with Adi4 as he is the man that knows.
4x6v wet cell Trojans were the batteries of choice for all sorts of technical reasons but most of all cost.
As it transpired Adi is also a Trojan stockist as well so the supply, installation & warranty is all in one place (his garage in Weymouth).
Adi is a bit of a wizard with all things RV including electrickery, so it may be a suggestion to contact him for advice on the subject.
Adi & Cassie are members on here & RVOC
Broken Link Removed

Hi, do you have a link to web-site pleaseJoe

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[Nasher]

If they were really silent I'd go for one of those too - but they are NOT. Anoy the crap out of anyone around you, though great in an emergency. Spent many a week (in my flying days) at Breighton running the Genny for 3 hours a day parked by the runway strip! Even the guy in the scrapyard next door complained and he was used to aircraft LOL.

Mine gets used at motorcycle events, so noise not an issue?

 

[funflair]

For a good few years I have been an Exide Gel fan, we started off with two on our Flair and they would run the microwave etc OK but I would see the volts dip under 12 while it was pulling 100+ amps, I thought that they were on the way out after they got to 7 or 8 years old but actually they just needed a proper charge as solar at the back end of the year wasn't giving 100% charge y then I had bought two more so fitted them s well and they were great 320ah total.

Now we have 320ah lithium and they are in a different league but a different price as well, if I had the money and the need ie more power, less weight and fast recharge then Lithium is the way, if I was saving the pennies it would be Gel again or quality flooded, think I would stay Gel though for the no maintenance factor.

I tried to take some capacity out of our Lithiums to see how the solar performed but after about 2 hours of air-conditioning running I had only dropped them 10%.

Martin

 

[eddie]

Very nice, but you would have got yours at trade price!
John
Edit. Did you replace a single 110Ah battery?

The “retail" on them is £840, so a lot less than the £1200 the OP quoted, but still expensive

On our last camper I had 6 x 135Ah batteries, but wasn't interested in payload or space, at it weighed about 11000 Kg When we ordered the current one, we wanted to keep under 7500Kg so planned on ditching the lead acid before we had even taken delivery

No the camper came with two 110Ah

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[DBK]

Hi Folks

Been contemplating (forever it seems) Lithium batteries to replace the two 90ah monsters in my battery locker, the two main reasons are:

1. 'supply anxiety', will I get stuck overnight with dead batteries, and if I have a deeper amp-hour 'well' (running lithium longer) could I run an inverter whilst off hookup for the odd microwave popcorn packet and sock drying duties and, of course, SWMBO's hairdryer.
2. Weight; Lead Acid batteries just seem so heavy for the actual power output available (maybe 60-70% useable output?).

I could possibly get two 100ah lithiums and would then have 200ah deep drain (80% useable) facility at 12v, or one giant 200ah lithium at 12v. The first option seems like the lithium advantage over Lead Acid batteries is a deeper drain, so more useful operating time after charging, though still a similar actual ah as a LA. The second option offers the above but in one battery.

The cost is, of course, the challenge. Two 100ah lithiums at min £1200 and the monster 200ah at £3000+.

Having read many times that American RV'ers often use banks of 6v batteries to replace their 12v's I started to look around. It seems that for a similar footprint area I can replace my two 90ah 12v batteries for four 200ah 6v batteries. Wired in series (two banks of two batteries with 200ah @ 12v each bank) and then parallel the four 6v'ers would offer 400ah at 12v (hope I got that right). Not quite as deep drain as lithium I believe but more than 70%, and since these 6v'ers have 3 cells each, which are heavily separated in the battery shell, it is possible to have a cell changed should one fail, rather than a battery replacement?

Price is between £130 and £230 each, depending on the maker, but the expensive Trojans are those used as deep drain batteries for golf carts and forklifts etc, so seem to have a very long life and very deep drain capabilities. They can (apparently) be totally discharged, recovered and recharged?

Is this the huge benefit over 12v'ers or lithiums that it looks like on the surface??? Anyone else gone this route, or considered it and then done something differently?

Please explain why I'm an idiot and how this will never work, or at least how I will die horribly as a result of even trying it???

IanRJ

If you want to look again at lithium check the prices at Battery Megastore. They have a 100Ah lithium for £720 but you can get 30% off that with the MHF discount. Of course, you will probably have to change your chargers and solar controller and fit a B2B but it would be worth it in the long term if you intend keeping the vehicle.

 

[IanRJ]

The “retail" on them is £840, so a lot less than the £1200 the OP quoted, but still expensive

On our last camper I had 6 x 135Ah batteries, but wasn't interested in payload or space, at it weighed about 11000 Kg When we ordered the current one, we wanted to keep under 7500Kg so planned on ditching the lead acid before we had even taken delivery

No the camper came with two 110Ah

I was suggesting£1200 for two actually so your £840 is even more scary. Wasn't there someone offering 100ah for £500 on here a short while ago? I just added 200 for any changes necessary.

 

[IanRJ]

If you want to look again at lithium check the prices at Battery Megastore. They have a 100Ah lithium for £720 but you can get 30% off that with the MHF discount. Of course, you will probably have to change your chargers and solar controller and fit a B2B but it would be worth it in the long term if you intend keeping the vehicle.

That's more reasonable pricing, and keeping weight down. My Sargent charger can handle Lithium I believe, though I'm looking also at adding an inverter, so maybe a sterling inverter charger might be better. B2B is on the cards anyway regardless.

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[The Wino]

If your batteries have never run out and have lasted a reasonable time why not just do a straight swap and spend the rest on wine?

 

[IanRJ]

If your batteries have never run out and have lasted a reasonable time why not just do a straight swap and spend the rest on wine?

Not had more than one night at a time off-grid so far and want to do more of it, and I will be adding an inverter which will certainly draw more power (when doing my porridge in the Micky lol). So more power is the target!

 

[nicholsong]

Nobody has mentioned the dimensions of 6v traction.

When I looked at them a few years ago they were too tall for my battery box so would have needed relocating and beefed up cabling.

Have the dimensions sunk?

Geoff

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