B2B question please (1 Viewer)

[Figaro]

I have been thinking of fitting a battery 2 battery charger for greater off grid camping opportunities.
The alternator seems to put about 30 amps into the leisure batteries but only for a short period so not really much use.
Therefore I thought about fitting this unit ...

Victron Energy Orion-Tr Smart 12/12-Volt 30 amp 360-Watt DC-DC Charger, Isolated (Bluetooth)

Current setup is :-

2003 Hymer B544 A Class (Ducato x244)
EBL99
2 x 90 A/h Exide Gel batteries (one under each ISRI cab seat) age unknown but could be 10 years old. Seem to be performing ok
200 watts solar with a Votronic MPPT 250 Duo 20A MPPT Dual-Solar Charge Regulator 12V
My questions are -
Will this Victron unit do what I require and complement my current setup without issue ?
Can it be fitted next to the battery under one of the ISRI seats, assuming there is room for it ? I've never taken the seat off before so unsure how much space there is.
Is there an existing route to run the cables from under the seat through the bulkhead and to the cab battery ?

I'd like to fit it myself if possible as it seems straight forward, just four connections.

Thanks in advance

 

[TheCaller]

It would be unusual (but not unknown) for the 12v habitation wiring to be completely isolated from the vehicle chassis. Unless it is, there is no benefit to having the isolated rather than the non-isolated version. It is more common to use the isolated version on boats.

If your existing wiring is capable of handling 30 amps, not just for the few minutes after start up but continuously, I would think you could use that. Disconnect the +ve input cable from the starter battery at the rear of the EBL99 & connect it to the input of the Orion, then connect the +ve output from the Orion to the EBL99. Connect the -ve of the Orion to the common neutral. See the wiring diagram in the Orion manual - you are effectively using the battery connections on the rear of the EBL as the connections to the two batteries as shown in that wiring diagram.

 

[autorouter]

In most motorhomes, the alternator negative is connected to the chassis, and so is the starter battery negative. In the EBL, the starter battery positive and leisure battery positive are connected by a relay when the engine is running. The leisure battery negative is required to be connected to the chassis to fit in with all this. A non-isolated B2B would be most suitable for this. If you've already acquired an isolated type, then it is usable, just connect the negatives together.

The existing wiring probably has two 50A fuses, one near the starter battery and one near the leisure battery. The wiring is able to handle up to 50A. Because of that there's no need to run a wire through the bulkhead, you can use the existing starter battery wire as TheCaller described.

Be careful of the colour coding of those three connections at the back of the EBL. On mine it is: negative = brown, starter positive = red, leisure positive = black.

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[Figaro]

Thanks guys, I'll get the non isolated then and make it my winter project.

 

[Stealaway]

Have a look at the Sterling versions.
It shows you the wiring diagrams and where
the output negatives go.
I've been happy with my one.

 

[CazPaul]

Are they effective with gel batteries, is there a gel setting?

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[Al n Val]

I’ve got the Victron 12/12/30 and can say it’s superb, it does exactly what you bought it for and does it without any fuss.

Using the Victron app I can actually see what’s happening whilst driving along

Go for it and i’m pretty sure you won’t regret it, also when you swap vans take it to the next one.

Al

 

[Don Quixote]

Another vote for Victron - fit and forget, but have the advantage of app on phone.

 

[Figaro]

TheCaller autorouter

Just for the avoidence of any doubt, the connections can be made to the terminals on the bottom of the ELB 99 ?
With suitable breaker fuses of course.
Thanks

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[TheCaller]

TheCaller autorouter

Just for the avoidence of any doubt, the connections can be made to the terminals on the bottom of the ELB 99 ?
With suitable breaker fuses of course.
Thanks

Yes. What is happening at the moment is that terminal 3 is being fed with what the alternator thinks the starter battery needs, albeit with the load put on it by the EBL.

When you insert the Orion into that feed to terminal 3, you ensure that the feed into the EBL is a proper 3 stage charger feed, similar to what you would get from a 30A mains charger.

 

[Podney]

Cripey cripes!!!!! I reckon anyone who understands all this stuff is a genius!
Where did you learn it….school,college,work,internet,mate next door,books?? Amazing.

 

[Otter Spotter]

Take a look at Sterling B2Bs no faults found with mine for over 2 years.

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[Figaro]

I had a look at sterling but they seem to be more expensive.
I can get the victron one for 199 pounds

 

[Al n Val]

I had a look at sterling but they seem to be more expensive.
I can get the victron one for 199 pounds

if you can get the Victron for that money then get it quick as it’s cheap, is that new?

 

[Stealaway]

I had a look at sterling but they seem to be more expensive.
I can get the victron one for 199 pounds

That's the price I have just found for the 30amp Sterling one

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[autorouter]

With suitable breaker fuses of course.

There will already be a fuse, probably 50A, at the starter battery end of the wire to terminal 3. That will adequately protect the wiring, so no need for any more fuses or breakers.

 

[Figaro]

With excellent help from autorouter and TheCaller , I've fitted the victron B2B this afternoon and everything looks to be working
I'm just unsure of user settings ???
I've got gel batteries so set it to Gel Victron deep discharge (1) but there were options for 2 & 3 ?

Input voltage lock out - what values should I use ?

Engine shutdown detection - what values should I use ?

Many thanks for the help

 

[davidroxburgh]

Votronic 1212-30 around £170 from Road Pro net of Fun discount.

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[autorouter]

Are they effective with gel batteries, is there a gel setting?

If you are asking about Sterling B2Bs, yes there are flooded, gel and AGM settings, plus lithium. And provision for custom settings if if the preset values aren't what you want.

 

[Figaro]

autorouter The Victron Connect app is asking if I have a smart alternator, I suspect not, but do you know ? 2003 x244 Ducato
I gather for gels bulk charge is 14.4 and absorbsion 13.7 volts, but I'm not sure what float voltage should be ?

I think I figured out the input voltage lock out and engine shutdown detection
Thanks

 

[autorouter]

The Victron Connect app is asking if I have a smart alternator, I suspect not, but do you know ? 2003 x244 Ducato
I gather for gels bulk charge is 14.4 and absorbsion 13.7 volts, but I'm not sure what float voltage should be ?

Smart alternators were only fitted on vehicles in the last couple of years, so yours will be a standard type.

There's no fixed voltage for the bulk charge stage, the charger sends out its maximum current (amps), and the volts slowly rises. When it hits the absorption voltage (14.4V) the charger sets the voltage to that value and proceeds with the absorption stage. The amps slowly falls from its maximum value. When the amps falls to a predefined limit, the charger decides the battery is fully charged, and switches to the float voltage (13.7V). For gel and some AGM batteries, usually the absorption stage is extended by a timed amount, a number of hours sometimes.

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[Figaro]

My Victron B2B seems to be working well, but the victron connect app will only show me volts going in to leisure batteries.
I've seen videos on YouTube that show the app displaying amps going in.
I've looked in all the settings and can't see an option for amps.
Anyone use the connect app that knows where I'm going wrong ?
Screen shot of the app.

 

[autorouter]

In bulk charge mode, the amps is simply the maximum value that it says on the tin. So maybe they think it's not worth having a separate line for it. Does it show amps when it reaches absorption mode?

 

[Figaro]

Does it show amps when it reaches absorption mode?

I'm not sure, I'll check when next out in van.
The video I watched the app showed 20 amps going in from alternator when he started engine, after 15 seconds or so it jumped up to 50 amps as the victron kicked in.
Just wondering why I only see volts, doesn't matter I suppose.
Thanks

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[Hoovie]

I'm not sure, I'll check when next out in van.
The video I watched the app showed 20 amps going in from alternator when he started engine, after 15 seconds or so it jumped up to 50 amps as the victron kicked in.
Just wondering why I only see volts, doesn't matter I suppose.
Thanks

Have you got a link to that video you mention?
I don't think current is shown by the VE.Connect App for the B2B but it sounds like maybe you are looking at a video of a BMV view via VE.Connect.

 

[Mixyblob]

Ive just fitted a Victron B2B too and was wondering the same thing. I'd be just as interested (for a while ast least) to know how much current is being fed to my LBs, as well the volts.

 

[Figaro]

Have you got a link to that video you mention?
I don't think current is shown by the VE.Connect App for the B2B but it sounds like maybe you are looking at a video of a BMV view via VE.Connect.

I think you may be correct about the battery monitor or lack of in my case being the difference, but I have fitted the same b2b as in the video.

It's John and Mandy, here's the link, the bit that shows amps is about 11:20

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[steveh57]

No current shown with B2B app on Victron connect, the video above looks to be reading current from a Victron shunt, it is worth it imo keeping an eye on the output of the Victron because if its getting hot , it falls off markedly. This was the issue I had but a conductive mounting and a PC fan have brought the temperatures down to below 40C

 

[Figaro]

Ive just fitted a Victron B2B too and was wondering the same thing. I'd be just as interested (for a while ast least) to know how much current is being fed to my LBs, as well the volts.

Ok, a bit more research done, it seems like the B2B only gives voltage. The solar controller and battery monitor give much more info including amps.
If you open the app and click on the three lines top left, you can select Demo Library, from there you can select all victron products to see what info is provided.
B2B is basic info

 

[Al n Val]

you need a shunt to see the current afaik, mine is the same as yours and voltage only shows

The current should be 30A at bulk charge

Al

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