Autotrail electrics question ( again LOL !! )

Jaws

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Not getting ANY sense out of Autotrail and Sargent has promised to call back and failed.....

The system in the van seems to draw about .5 of an amp all the time, even though the panel is ( supposedly ) switched off.

Under the seat there is a secondary control box.. There is a red LED on all the time..

A) Should that red LED be on all the time ?

B) Should there be a current draw when everything is switched off according to the panel ?

I can understand a few milliamps to keep the panel clock going and of course it will effectively be in some sort of standby mode, but .5 of an amp seems a LOT !!
 

Scout

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John you may need to recalabrate the system. There's some posts on here about it. Im at work af the moment but wben I get home ill look up my notes to see how its done. Memory's not what is was
 
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Jaws

Jaws

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Hiya mate,
not been going by the panel but by my own external meter..
Or do you think the current draw is being caused by something that does require calibration ?

As a matter of interest though, the voltage meter always reads .4v down on what it really is..
I have the original info and have tried following the re-calibration procedure in that but it always stays the same, so any help on calbrating you can give really would be greatly appreciate (y)
 

Scout

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the thread about this is here,

http://motorhomefun.co.uk/forum/threads/07-amp-drain-nothing-switched-on.69297/

but this is what you need to do to recalibrate the amps drawn, on the pannel over the door select the amps draw option, press and hold the left arrow key, the system will read "recalabrating" and the set the system, release the key and the reading should be zero amps ( if all power is off). I had to do severail times to achive this.

however saying this, you may have newer unit than me, I have the older psu 2007 with the over door display/switch unit EC200

Im not sure about the underseat led as its not fitted to mine
 

Gorse Hill

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Hiya mate,
not been going by the panel but by my own external meter..
Or do you think the current draw is being caused by something that does require calibration ?

As a matter of interest though, the voltage meter always reads .4v down on what it really is..
I have the original info and have tried following the re-calibration procedure in that but it always stays the same, so any help on calbrating you can give really would be greatly appreciate (y)
Is a quality multimeter (fluke) if so has it been calibrated (done yearly) if not it's reasonable to expect it's the meter althou 500mA seems a bit high unless it's a Chinese import
 

longdog

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Apr 16, 2013
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Not getting ANY sense out of Autotrail and Sargent has promised to call back and failed.....

The system in the van seems to draw about .5 of an amp all the time, even though the panel is ( supposedly ) switched off.

Under the seat there is a secondary control box.. There is a red LED on all the time..

A) Should that red LED be on all the time ?

B) Should there be a current draw when everything is switched off according to the panel ?

I can understand a few milliamps to keep the panel clock going and of course it will effectively be in some sort of standby mode, but .5 of an amp seems a LOT !!
Funny you should say that...... My Ace Adventurer has done exactly the same since I have had it. I have had it checked and nothing untoward was found, I also had a brand new control panel from Swift and there is still a constant draw just exactly as you describe.

I'm going outside to try this re calibration thingy right now!
 

tonka

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What PSU do you have ??? EC500 ??
I found the same and queried it with Sergent.. Seem's that is normal (although I had 0.3 amps) unless you turn off the whole system via the Shutdown button on the PSU.. However, if you do a full shutdown then any solar panel fitted and regulated by the PSU will then only charge the Leisure and not smart charge both..
 

lunarman

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On our van (Pilote with Schaud electrics) ceratin items are live even with the 12v panel turned off from memory this includes - Truma Frost Protectiom, Gas Cut off, Fridge Electrics.

This is to protect "essential" services in the event that the system shuts down due to "Low Voltage"
 

eddievanbitz

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Could you post a picture of the box? and does the quiescent drain increase if you turn the ignition on (without starting the engine) and turn the blower and the head lights on?

Eddie
 
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Jaws

Jaws

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Is a quality multimeter (fluke) if so has it been calibrated (done yearly) if not it's reasonable to expect it's the meter althou 500mA seems a bit high unless it's a Chinese import
Fluke, a quality meter ??
true about 5+ years ago but the newer ones are real awful.. all over the place..
I use all sorts of meters and check them for most functions quite regularly ( I use a scope and regulated controlled PSU both of which get redone every two years by a tame bod at a certain USAF base local to me where they do all manner of calibration stuff )

Sooo.. Did the recal thing and it was the same ( actually, before I did it the panel was reading an amp, but that dropped to .5 amps in line with my external meter after recal )

Started unplugging stuff and when I finally got that led on the oddball box to go out the draw dropped to .1amp.

That box is called an EM50 interface unit and seems to control ( of all things ) the rear lights.

The Sargent unit its self is a 225 and the control panel fitted is apparently the wrong one and is meant for later units. ( but it seems to work more or less ok so not worried about that )

I shall continue investigating but in the mean time I have bought a battery isolation switch so I can ditch everything completely and just leave the solar panels working.

Oh, the solar panel system built in to the Sargent is pretty limited by the way, and to be honest not that efficient either..
I would recommend anyone using a solar panel in conjunction with a Sargent box, buy a decent solar panel regulator and use that instead (y)
 
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Jaws

Jaws

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Sep 26, 2008
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Could you post a picture of the box? and does the quiescent drain increase if you turn the ignition on (without starting the engine) and turn the blower and the head lights on?

Eddie
I shall run checks on that tomorrow Eddie.. Will try and take a picture of the box as well

One thing I have learnt
Sargent in general are really VERY good and very helpful.
They know their stuff and previous to this latest issue have always been on the ball. ( I think maybe my call for help was not passed on due to an oversight ... which we are all entitled to once in a while :) )

The kit is extremely well made but to be brutal is overly complex.. Methinks they are over egging the whole thing to be honest..
It seems they started off with something that did the job and have had an ongoing development policy ever since, constantly 'improving' the various systems all the time.

Perhaps it would now be better to start over and go with something a little more K.I.S.S. ;)
 

Scout

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so the re-calabration did work, as you now have it reading the same drain as your meter,
 
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Jaws

Jaws

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Ah Have you got a tow bar fitted? more importantly towing electrics? and is you chassis a CAN system?
It is canbus and I do have a tow bar and the relay box.. But the issue was there even before that was fitted..
Good idea though Eddie :D

so the re-calabration did work, as you now have it reading the same drain as your meter,
Yes mate :) (y)
Worked a treat but drain still a little high so am furthering the investigation
 
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Jaws

Jaws

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Just remembered.. drain is about 1.8 amps as soon as I press the on button..
More issues I am thinking.....then I realised it was the bloody Pace box doing the biz, so at least that is no mystery
 

Gorse Hill

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Feb 2, 2013
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Fluke, a quality meter ??
true about 5+ years ago but the newer ones are real awful.. all over the place..
I use all sorts of meters and check them for most functions quite regularly ( I use a scope and regulated controlled PSU both of which get redone every two years by a tame bod at a certain USAF base local to me where they do all manner of calibration stuff )

Sooo.. Did the recal thing and it was the same ( actually, before I did it the panel was reading an amp, but that dropped to .5 amps in line with my external meter after recal )

Started unplugging stuff and when I finally got that led on the oddball box to go out the draw dropped to .1amp.

That box is called an EM50 interface unit and seems to control ( of all things ) the rear lights.

The Sargent unit its self is a 225 and the control panel fitted is apparently the wrong one and is meant for later units. ( but it seems to work more or less ok so not worried about that )

I shall continue investigating but in the mean time I have bought a battery isolation switch so I can ditch everything completely and just leave the solar panels working.

Oh, the solar panel system built in to the Sargent is pretty limited by the way, and to be honest not that efficient either..
I would recommend anyone using a solar panel in conjunction with a Sargent box, buy a decent solar panel regulator and use that instead (y)
Obviously on top of things jaws, pretty much checked everything I would have
Will have a look at the schematics for the Sargent to see if we missed anything mate
 
OP
Jaws

Jaws

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Sep 26, 2008
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C class, Autotrail Chief
Exp
since 2006 ( I think ! )
Obviously on top of things jaws, pretty much checked everything I would have
Will have a look at the schematics for the Sargent to see if we missed anything mate
Have you got the maps of the internals Chris ?
I have all the basic ones that show what is connected where but ( understandably ) Sargent were not willing to release the actual circuit diagrams.. If you do have them would love a copy !!

x=mc2 x amps isn't it?
Ummmm..
That looks like it might be the formula for the flux capacitor !! A bit of everything in there (y)
 
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