Are we the only ones having after sales problems. (1 Viewer)

[Peter JohnsCross MH]

Hi Geordie,

No my response was not that of a Motorhome dealer, was purely a personal suggestion.

I would not get involved as a professional on this sort of subject

Peter

 

[PhilandMena]

Hi Geordie,

My advice to you would be to get all the issues sorted, some form of compensation for all the messing about and keep the van.

It was the van of your choice and you now seem to have also formed a relationship with your local dealer as well.


Peter

This makes good sense to me, it's easy to lose it in the heat of the moment and be persuaded by others to do something you may regret later. If it's any consolation, it is very common in the UK motorhome industry for new motorhomes to require quite a lot of correction after being supplied. (It's a shoddy industry to say the least).

However, you seem to have been subject to not only a defective motorhome but also appalling support from the dealer you purchased this off. (I have emailed the 3 gents at the top of the tree and informed them thousands of motorhome owners are now aware of your particular case and I suspect you are going to see a markedly improved response from your dealer in the very near future).

Even though the Fiat engine/base may have faults it's the responsibility of the dealer to arrange for these to be corrected and he should have taken it to a Fiat dealer, not you.

Be firm with them, it is their responsibility to correct all the faults even if it involves other builders/manufacturers of component parts.

Soon things will be behind you and you will feel much better (I did!) and can look forward to enjoying your motorhome. Just ensure you understand what is covered in the warranty, do not invalidate it and you know your basic rights.

Do not allow yourself to be fobbed of by a dealer; some of them are very apt at doing this.

If you’re not sure ask on this forum you will get some bad advice but a lot of good advice.

 

[Larrynwin]

This makes good sense to me, it's easy to lose it in the heat of the moment and be persuaded by others to do something you may regret later. If it's any consolation, it is very common in the UK motorhome industry for new motorhomes to require quite a lot of correction after being supplied. (It's a shoddy industry to say the least).

However, you seem to have been subject to not only a defective motorhome but also appalling support from the dealer you purchased this off. (I have emailed the 3 gents at the top of the tree and informed them thousands of motorhome owners are now aware of your particular case and I suspect you are going to see a markedly improved response from your dealer in the very near future).

Even though the Fiat engine/base may have faults it's the responsibility of the dealer to arrange for these to be corrected and he should have taken it to a Fiat dealer, not you.

Be firm with them, it is their responsibility to correct all the faults even if it involves other builders/manufacturers of component parts.

Soon things will be behind you and you will feel much better (I did!) and can look forward to enjoying your motorhome. Just ensure you understand what is covered in the warranty, do not invalidate it and you know your basic rights.

Do not allow yourself to be fobbed of by a dealer; some of them are very apt at doing this.

If you’re not sure ask on this forum you will get some bad advice but a lot of good advice.

This is not exactly the heat of the moment, Geordie took delivery May 31st, this is three months on and has become a nightmare for Geordie and his family.
Given that the facts are as Geordie has posted, Lowdhams have virtually ignored a customer after taking around £100,000 from him , that is a terrible way to treat a customer and in my opinion they should get him a new one post haste or refund him in full plus all costs and compensation for stress caused.

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[GEORDIE]

Lowdhams

I think we need to take the time and wait to see what Lowdhams come up with on Tuesday. The fact that it has caused us so much stress is neither here nor there to them. Everyone's advice has been invaluable and we thank you all for your support.

We are just devastated that what was our dream has been shattered.

We shall reflect over the weekend and I hope we can come to a mutual decision as to where we go from here. The only consolation to us is that there are some lovely people out there , that have supported us in our hour of need. We thank you all and hope should we cross paths somewhere , we can share a drink and look back on all this hassle and reflect on what we should or should not have done .

We shall update regularly and thank you all for your advice and help x

 

[Robwhiteman]

After sales

Hi Geordie

Sorry to hear about all your problems with your new motorhome. We are on our third motorhome the last two we bought new from Lowdhams of Nottingham and the first one second-hand from Brownhills at Newark.

Our Carthago M Liner and our current Chic I44 have had many more problems than your vehicle. All of which have been manufacturer problems ie Carthago and Iveco (in the case of the M Liner), none of these problems have been anything to do with Lowdhams and over the last four and a half years they have done their best to solve these problems, fighting both Iveco and Carthago on our behalf. We have nothing but praise for Lowdhams and compared with other dealers we have used in the past they are streets ahead.

Your experience appears very different but as you live so far from Lowdhams your vehicle doesn't seem to have come back to them personally to give them a chance to rectify the manufacturer's problems. I can appreciate it is difficult with a vehicle that is having engine faults, especially when they seem to be caused by the motorhome manufacturer.

All of the work Lowdhams have carried out on our vehicles has been of a very high standard and we have always been treated courteously and professionally. Having spent all my working life in the garage business I know how difficult it can sometimes be to accommodate everyone immediately. If a workshop is fully booked it is impossible to fit in extra work and the suggestion of trying your local dealer Premier was a very good one, you obviously had good service from them.

My opinion is, that it is the manufacturers of these motorhomes ie Dethleffs, Carthago, Hymer etc that should be held to account for their shoddy workmanship, and not hide behind the supplying dealer who often have to spend their own money putting right faults that originate at the factory and slip through their so called quality control. We know for a fact that the Carthago factory are so arrogant that they say that their vehicles are never faulty I know to my cost that this is far from the truth. It is unfortunate that one cannot attack the factory directly, especially a foreign factory where the language barrier is always a problem. They also hide behind the fact that your contract is with the supplying dealer ie Lowdhams and therefore no legal action can be taken against the factory, sorry to say the local dealer is in a no win situation.

I suggest you give Lowdhams a second chance, you can always do as we do and stay on their free campsite while they tend to your vehicle.

All the best Rob

 

[mondo]

Lets look at this objectively..this vehicle is not fit for purpose..Sale of Goods Act applies...If you bought a new car and it didn't work you would take it to the dealers not the builders..Your contract IS WITH THEM...They say Yes sir it's a good investment..It doesn't matter if you pay 10K or 100k the damn thing should work...Lowdhams should honour this...The British public in general do not know how to complain...I would go to their stand at the NEC and tell them I bought a 100K van from you It don't work fix it please.....As a sort of similarity I bought a Tracvision Sat Tv set up for my van..it worked quite well until we were in France then it started playing silly B****rs with us..Some French geezer turned up and allegedly fixed it..with a Gallic shrug and said yes it now works..well it did for 6 days then stopped again...any way I went to the Tracvision stand at the NEC and told em what I thought of their product..Simon one of their guys knew exactly what the problem was and came and fixed it personally....This is what you should do at their stand at The NEC and make em squirm...They will not want the aggro it means loss of sales..if you don't know how to complain I'll be there on the 18th of October I'll do it for you...either get you a new one OR your money back!!!

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[mondo]

QUOTE::My opinion is, that it is the manufacturers of these motorhomes ie Dethleffs, Carthago, Hymer etc that should be held to account for their shoddy workmanship, and not hide behind the supplying dealer who often have to spend their own money putting right faults that originate at the factory and slip through their so called quality control. We know for a fact that the Carthago factory are so arrogant that they say that their vehicles are never faulty I know to my cost that this is far from the truth. It is unfortunate that one cannot attack the factory directly, especially a foreign factory where the language barrier is always a problem. They also hide behind the fact that your contract is with the supplying dealer ie Lowdhams and therefore no legal action can be taken against the factory, sorry to say the local dealer is in a no win situation.QUOTE::

I agree Rob but the top and bottom of it is Lowdhams supply the van they should euther reimburse or replace..100k is a lot of cash..The contract is with Lowdhams regardless of who built/manufactured/converted the van the buck stops THERE!!!! As I've said if you buy a Ford Fiesta from a Ford dealer if it breaks down they fix it not the Ford plant wherever it was built...Dealers have a responsibilty to give good after sales service..not just take your cash and say cheers...

 

[ShiftZZ]

Hi Geordie

Sorry to hear about all your problems with your new motorhome. We are on our third motorhome the last two we bought new from Lowdhams of Nottingham and the first one second-hand from Brownhills at Newark.

Our Carthago M Liner and our current Chic I44 have had many more problems than your vehicle. All of which have been manufacturer problems ie Carthago and Iveco (in the case of the M Liner), none of these problems have been anything to do with Lowdhams and over the last four and a half years they have done their best to solve these problems, fighting both Iveco and Carthago on our behalf. We have nothing but praise for Lowdhams and compared with other dealers we have used in the past they are streets ahead.

Your experience appears very different but as you live so far from Lowdhams your vehicle doesn't seem to have come back to them personally to give them a chance to rectify the manufacturer's problems. I can appreciate it is difficult with a vehicle that is having engine faults, especially when they seem to be caused by the motorhome manufacturer.

All of the work Lowdhams have carried out on our vehicles has been of a very high standard and we have always been treated courteously and professionally. Having spent all my working life in the garage business I know how difficult it can sometimes be to accommodate everyone immediately. If a workshop is fully booked it is impossible to fit in extra work and the suggestion of trying your local dealer Premier was a very good one, you obviously had good service from them.

My opinion is, that it is the manufacturers of these motorhomes ie Dethleffs, Carthago, Hymer etc that should be held to account for their shoddy workmanship, and not hide behind the supplying dealer who often have to spend their own money putting right faults that originate at the factory and slip through their so called quality control. We know for a fact that the Carthago factory are so arrogant that they say that their vehicles are never faulty I know to my cost that this is far from the truth. It is unfortunate that one cannot attack the factory directly, especially a foreign factory where the language barrier is always a problem. They also hide behind the fact that your contract is with the supplying dealer ie Lowdhams and therefore no legal action can be taken against the factory, sorry to say the local dealer is in a no win situation.

I suggest you give Lowdhams a second chance, you can always do as we do and stay on their free campsite while they tend to your vehicle.

All the best Rob

Interesting 1st posting,

Interesting link from Lowdhams webpage to your blog.

 

[hilldweller]

Interesting 1st posting,
Interesting link from Lowdhams webpage to your blog.

>> Our Carthago M Liner and our current Chic I44 have had many more
>> problems than your vehicle.

And not very lucky with his purchases.

Why do people buy new.

Then rebuild them.

Then lose a packet when they repeat the cycle.

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[GEORDIE]

Lowdhams

You know Shiffty You are a very knowledgeable man and I applaud you. If we ever get back on the road and meet up some where . I shall buy you a drink. in fact two. Cheers Mate

 

[Larrynwin]

Brian , somebody has to or we would all have old wrecks

 

[jhorsf]

You may like to remind Lowdhams that several thousand motorhomers are now waiting to see if they remember what customer service is, at the moment they are not going to sell me even a bottle of toilet fluid after what I have read so far!


You need to speak to the Boss of Lowdhams and ask them just what they are going to do NOW not in weeks to put things right to your satisfaction.

Buying a new motorhome and then being told they cannot fix your faults for weeks is not on in my book they should be ashamed

Please keep us informed

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[camcondor]

So sorry to hear of this saga, it sounds even worse than the horrible experience we had of buying our Adria Vision from a nasty dealer in Herne Bay in 2007- there were dreadful problems right from the outset especially with extras the dealer had fitted, but also with Adria, which was awful. The issues were not quite a bad as yours, though, but its tarnished our enjoyment of it and its been stood for the past 3 years on our driveway hooked up to electric and started up now and then due to various circumstances not been able to go on trips but hoping to in the near future.......

Our finance ended up being almost as much as yours, its a crying shame to spend a fortune on what should be such a pleasure - demand that it is settled to your satisfaction, don't put up with the endless "6 week book in " etc. I would be visiting a solicitor now in order to reject the vehicle as not fit for purpose.

Best of luck

 

[PhilandMena]

I thought the following quote from the Sale of Goods Act may be helpful.

Product Liability and damages (Sale of Goods Act)
last updated: 31st July 2011

The purchaser can claim against the supplier for losses or damages due to the defective product.

A claim can only be made by the purchaser and can only be made against the supplier. This is under the “privity of contract rule” which requires that only those parties (involved) in the contract can make a claim ie the purchaser and the supplier.

The manufacturer cannot be sued unless the goods were purchased directly from it. So, for example, if the goods were purchased from an agent or distributor, then the claim must be made against the agent or distributor.

The supplier may be sued for damages caused by a sub-contractor where the contract contains an ‘ancillary service’ ie the service is being provided by a sub-contractor.

I'm hopeful you will have a satisfactory outcome to this sorry saga.

 

[Reallyretired]

So sorry to hear of this saga, it sounds even worse than the horrible experience we had of buying our Adria Vision from a nasty dealer in Herne Bay in 2007- there were dreadful problems right from the outset especially with extras the dealer had fitted, but also with Adria, which was awful. The issues were not quite a bad as yours, though, but its tarnished our enjoyment of it and its been stood for the past 3 years on our driveway hooked up to electric and started up now and then due to various circumstances not been able to go on trips but hoping to in the near future.......

Our finance ended up being almost as much as yours, its a crying shame to spend a fortune on what should be such a pleasure - demand that it is settled to your satisfaction, don't put up with the endless "6 week book in " etc. I would be visiting a solicitor now in order to reject the vehicle as not fit for purpose.

Best of luck

Interesting
I bought a motorhome from a dealer in Herne Bay in 2006, no problems at all. I'm sure there can't be more than one dealer there. It shows that the same dealer can have both good and bad reports, though I'm sure the bad ones have the most lasting effects.

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[Xabia]

Hi Geordie

Sorry to hear about all your problems with your new motorhome. We are on our third motorhome the last two we bought new from Lowdhams of Nottingham and the first one second-hand from Brownhills at Newark.

Our Carthago M Liner and our current Chic I44 have had many more problems than your vehicle. All of which have been manufacturer problems ie Carthago and Iveco (in the case of the M Liner), none of these problems have been anything to do with Lowdhams and over the last four and a half years they have done their best to solve these problems, fighting both Iveco and Carthago on our behalf. We have nothing but praise for Lowdhams and compared with other dealers we have used in the past they are streets ahead.

Your experience appears very different but as you live so far from Lowdhams your vehicle doesn't seem to have come back to them personally to give them a chance to rectify the manufacturer's problems. I can appreciate it is difficult with a vehicle that is having engine faults, especially when they seem to be caused by the motorhome manufacturer.

All of the work Lowdhams have carried out on our vehicles has been of a very high standard and we have always been treated courteously and professionally. Having spent all my working life in the garage business I know how difficult it can sometimes be to accommodate everyone immediately. If a workshop is fully booked it is impossible to fit in extra work and the suggestion of trying your local dealer Premier was a very good one, you obviously had good service from them.

My opinion is, that it is the manufacturers of these motorhomes ie Dethleffs, Carthago, Hymer etc that should be held to account for their shoddy workmanship, and not hide behind the supplying dealer who often have to spend their own money putting right faults that originate at the factory and slip through their so called quality control. We know for a fact that the Carthago factory are so arrogant that they say that their vehicles are never faulty I know to my cost that this is far from the truth. It is unfortunate that one cannot attack the factory directly, especially a foreign factory where the language barrier is always a problem. They also hide behind the fact that your contract is with the supplying dealer ie Lowdhams and therefore no legal action can be taken against the factory, sorry to say the local dealer is in a no win situation.

I suggest you give Lowdhams a second chance, you can always do as we do and stay on their free campsite while they tend to your vehicle.

All the best Rob

You seem to have overlooked the fact that Lowdhams were not prepared to look at the vehicle for 6 weeks so the OP could not have taken it back whether he lived 5 miles away or 500.

As far as the workshop being booked up is concerned this is pure inefficiency on the part of the dealer - he should ensure that he has spare capacity for problems arising from sales to customers from whom they have earned substantial sums of money.

A friend of mine receive toy took his caravan in for minor work that he was told would be done within the day, he actually got the item back 6 days later.

As stated before - a very interesting post from you.

 

[JJ]

Interesting 1st posting,

Interesting link from Lowdhams webpage to your blog.

I was thinking exactly the same Dave...

I know someone who has been treated really badly by Lowdhams... :Angry: :Angry:

JJ :Cool:

 

[Barclaybasher]

Interesting
I bought a motorhome from a dealer in Herne Bay in 2006, no problems at all. I'm sure there can't be more than one dealer there. It shows that the same dealer can have both good and bad reports, though I'm sure the bad ones have the most lasting effects.

I have been in 'retail' for 30 years and have always found that if you treat customers fairly and professionally you can satisfy 95% of your customers straight off.

Dealing with the other 5% who have a problem is what takes up a lot of time and effort - but it has to be done - and quickly.

'Vision Statements' - 'Mission Statements' - bo££*cks ! - just do your job !

It is what running a business properly is all about.

I hope Lowdhams now do what they should have done months ago.

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[TheDogMan]

A truly dreadfull tale and I am sure that if you spent 100k on a car with such major faults the dealer would have made a bigger effort to put things right.

6 weeks ago I purchased a brand new Kangoo auto estate from a discount dealer ( motorpoint Derby ) pre reg March 15 miles on the clock and nearly 50% off, After 400 miles I had all the flashing warnings and it kept going into limp mode so I rang Renault Coventry to book it in, very quickly they told me to get it recovered on my brakedown cover and they fixed poorly positioned wired from the factory that was shorting and reprogramed under warrenty, Great service on a car they did not supply and in fact a new renault not sold by a renault dealer.

Its all our dreams to buy a new MH but there is a lot to be said for buying used after its had a year or so for all the faults to appear, Mine was 16 months old ( well since registration) and was 36k off current list price.

Best of luck and if you could get some compensation at least a fixed van will not now have many faults

Dave

 

[1Oll]

Have sent email to MDs listed.

Have copied a link to the MDs listed.
Hope everything is sorted soon. more problems than my 17 year old Autosleeper Amethyst. A phone call to Autosleeper always brings an immediate response even for a vehicle of this age. Good Luck.
Brian

Shifty to the rescue......

Managing Director
Norbert.Dellekonig@dethleffs.de
Thomas.Fritz@dethleffs.de


Or these, well copy them in anyhow...

helge.vester@dethleffs.de
anita.lorenscheit@dethleffs.de

Let the dog of war off the leash...

 

[ShiftZZ]

Shhhhhhhhhhhhh, gone very quiet....

I am hoping to read the outcome, and sorted, SOON, very SOON...

Lets the [STRIKE]Dogs of war roam free[/STRIKE] Nutters Complaints Section rools okey kokey

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[Encantador]

I purchased mine from Lowdhams and had a problem as they had removed the underslung gas tank as it was dangerous.

I decided to collect it from them and get it checked, while there I asked to see someone in charge as I wasn`t happy they had removed it between sale and collection.

Saw the after sales manager and he offered £200, the cost of re-fitting the tank, the fitter would have to ring him when done and he would pay it over the phone by CC.

I have no doubt that he would have paid, but as it turned out it was too corroded to replace, so never got that far.

Although a much smaller issue than the OP, couldn`t really ask for more.

One issue not mentioned so far is about the pre-delivery inspection processes of these dealers (not just Lowdhams), surely its in their best interests to check new vehicles properly and send them back to the factory if they are not satisfied with the workmanship? Or just do the work `before` it goes to the customer.

If you made a list of the dealers to avoid based on these kinds of threads across a number of different forums, you would have nowhere to go to purchase from a dealer.

Maybe it`s Watchdog we should all be writing to and ask them to look at the whole industry.

Steve

 

[GEORDIE]

Thanks everyone. After another sleepless night I am off to the fiat dealers to start removing all our personal items. At the same time I shall collect the photos of the damage to the wiring.

We shall then have to wait till Tuesday to see what the next step is.

The After sales manager Kindly informed us that he was on holiday from last night. Not much consolation when we should of been too.

My only advice to anyone thinking of buying a Motorhome, would be too join all the Motorhome sites they can. Not only for advice but for the support of all the members in times of need. We can not thank you all enough for standing with us when it counts. Through out all this experience we have been given strength in numbers, and been offered hope when we thought there was none. Now we know we are not fighting alone, we shall continue to pursue the right outcome.

I shall keep you all informed of our progress.

As for you Shiftzz you have made us laugh when we could of cried. Your support and anecdotes have lifted our spirits. Thanks mate.

Alan and Marilyn

 

[big map]

Interesting 1st posting,

Interesting link from Lowdhams webpage to your blog.

My God you are good! You should be a detective :thumb:

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[ShiftZZ]

I wonder if Lowdhams are members on here?

They have a golden opportunity to make things right, companies should treat complaints/issues as an asset and do the right thing.

Come on Lowdhams do the right thing, failure will lose you business...

 

[Xabia]

Try Roger.craft@lowdhams.com

:thumb:

Hi ShiftZZ,

Tried a suitable email to that address but it bounced back.

Mike

 

[ShiftZZ]

Hi ShiftZZ,

Tried a suitable email to that address but it bounced back.

Mike

Oops..missed teh extra s, they love in the NG13 area


try

Roger.crafts@lowdhams.com

or
Judith.Crafts@lowdhams.com

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[Larrynwin]

I dont intend to hijack this thread or start another issue but did the gentleman whose smart car burnt out following an a frame being fitted get satisfaction in the end ?

 

[Xabia]

I dont intend to hijack this thread or start another issue but did the gentleman whose smart car burnt out following an a frame being fitted get satisfaction in the end ?

I don't believe that he did, seems Armitages washed their hands of the affair. For that reason I would never use them in the future.

Mike

 

[camper]

on my mind

This awful transaction has been playing on my mind and as I was walking round the garden(pretending to be on holiday- I don't do bank holiday weekends!) it suddenly struck me that I've walked round with a strange mist before my eyes with caravan and motorhome dealers.I thought the process worked like this:
Dealer researches the market
Decides the type of vehicles he wants/ can afford to sell
Buys some in
Inspects what he's bought.
Employs a team of experts to try out the vehicles.
Repairs any faults.
Retests vehicles and puts them up for sale.
Sells vehicle making sure customer is safe and competent.
Provides a comprehensive aftercare service and offers replacement vehicle where appropriate.
What Lowdhams appear to do:
Have vehicle dropped off from manufacturer.
Put a bit of diesel in.
Take payment from a customer
Count the money in the bank
Thieir website claims:

Every Ultimate Used Motorhome comes with:

Road Fund Licence and MOT
Full Mechanical and Habitation Multipoint Inspection
HPI Vehicle History and Mileage Register Check
Full Professional Valet
Personalised Handover (full working demonstration)
Out of Hours Technical Advice Line
Overnight Stay Facility
Lowdhams Customer Privilege Card


I wonder why they have a 6week waiting list for repairs?Might they be very busy putting things right.

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