Are Propane Remote Filling Systems Legal in the EU?

[Tim McGann]

I just had a conversation with a MH dealer in Belgium that is going to perform some work for me. When I asked about installing a remote propane filling port he was adamant that such systems are strictly prohibited in the EU. He cited some rule from the G607 certification, whatever that is. A German dealership gave me a quote (very high) on such a system without mentioning anything about legality. Can anyone shed a light on this?

 

[Verteuil Man]

By remote do you mean a cylinder in a gas locker and a filling point on the outside of the locker?

If that is the case how will vehicles that are converted to run on LPG fill up?

 

[bobandjanie]

They do say lpg is for powered engines not cooking, never had problems filling anywhere and as you say German fit them and you can get refillable bottles fitted here in Spain , we have loads of places selling autogas and I have filled both at the same time and never had any problems.
Bob

 

[Brains]

Refillable gas bottles and tanks are fairly common on UK, French and German motorhomes.
There are a number of companies offering the service, either as 'parts only' or as a full installation.

Gaslow is one of the more popular ones, click on the link and you will see they have at least one dealer in Belgium plus many others in France.

My (German) M/H has a Gaslow refillable LPG system with an exterior filling point.

Note:
Most European M/H's use the refillable LPG system to power the fridge, the cooker and the heating.
Some European based American RV's have been converted to run the engine on LPG (due to the exorbitant cost of petrol & diesel outside the USA).
I can imagine there may be rules prohibiting the use of the same LPG tank to drive both engine and cooker/fridge etc. I'm sure someone with an LPG powered RV will come along soon to educate us all.

 

[Tim McGann]

Yes, that's what I'm referring to. I'm having two Alugas bottles installed and I want to be able to fill them at a petrol station without having to access them in the locker. I was quoted 1,990 EUR for a remote fill system with automatic changeover. It might include two filled 11kg Alugas bottles. That price seems nuts to me. Any idea what would be a fair price?

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[Chipster]

11 kg kit.

The kit on its own in nearly £1K. Then there would be your auto changeover and maybe crash sense pigtails/regulatot?

 

[Bessy765]

I had an underslung gas it tank fitted with remote shut of and side skirt filler £1000

 

[Brains]

Yes, that's what I'm referring to. I'm having two Alugas bottles installed and I want to be able to fill them at a petrol station without having to access them in the locker. I was quoted 1,990 EUR for a remote fill system with automatic changeover. It might include two filled 11kg Alugas bottles. That price seems nuts to me. Any idea what would be a fair price?

About half what you have been quoted!

A quick google shows several companies offering a full install of twin bottles for change out of GB£ 1,000 (= just over €1,000)

Whomever you are talking to is obviously not interested (competent?) to fit a refillable gas system, so I'd take it elsewhere.
If you arrange it in advance so they can get in the exact parts required, a decent fitter will have the system up and running in a morning.
It's the sort of thing you can do (with a bit of planning) whilst you are on tour.

 

[Chipster]

About half what you have been quoted!

A quick google shows several companies offering a full install of twin bottles for change out of GB£ 1,000 (= just over €1,000)

Whomever you are talking to is obviously not interested (competent?) to fit a refillable gas system, so I'd take it elsewhere.
If you arrange it in advance so they can get in the exact parts required, a decent fitter will have the system up and running in a morning.
It's the sort of thing you can do (with a bit of planning) whilst you are on tour.

OP was talking about Alugas, not Gaslow.

 

[Orion]

About half what you have been quoted!

A quick google shows several companies offering a full install of twin bottles for change out of GB£ 1,000 (= just over €1,000)

Yes, that would be a good starting point. My twin 11kg Alugas system was a fair bit below that but only as I carried out the installation and commissioning myself.

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[Tim McGann]

Unfortunately, having this fitted in the UK is not an option and I don't have the resources to do it myself. I want to hit the ground running after our handover so perhaps the convenience might be worth the price.

 

[stevewagner]

Refillable gas bottles and tanks are fairly common on UK, French and German motorhomes.
There are a number of companies offering the service, either as 'parts only' or as a full installation.

Gaslow is one of the more popular ones, click on the link and you will see they have at least one dealer in Belgium plus many others in France.

My (German) M/H has a Gaslow refillable LPG system with an exterior filling point.

Note:
Most European M/H's use the refillable LPG system to power the fridge, the cooker and the heating.
Some European based American RV's have been converted to run the engine on LPG (due to the exorbitant cost of petrol & diesel outside the USA).
I can imagine there may be rules prohibiting the use of the same LPG tank to drive both engine and cooker/fridge etc. I'm sure someone with an LPG powered RV will come along soon to educate us all.

The take off for a tank that feeds an engine is in a different position on the tank than it would be for cooking and heating.

 

[Brains]

A load of discussion here which may be of interest

 

[Brains]

Unfortunately, having this fitted in the UK is not an option and I don't have the resources to do it myself. I want to hit the ground running after our handover so perhaps the convenience might be worth the price.

You don't have to go to the UK.
Plenty of gas fitters in France or Germany.
A professional will fit it in a morning,
Get the location and time right and you can go off and see a tourist site and come back to a finished job.
For €1,000 saving, I'd say the minor inconvenience was worth it!

 

[Tim McGann]

Agreed. I'll have a look and see what I can find. I might get lucky and find one next to a Biergarten!
Thanks

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[EuroTrotters]

I have fitted 4 systems, including 2 alugas systems.

Never been stopped from filling them. Even in Luxembourg where the pump stated not for caravan or motorhome cylinders. Pump was authorised from desk no problems .

I recently sent two funsters to Repsol in Javea who were allowed to fill bottles. One had to be helped out by a local (polish) resident who had just filled his LPG Van

 

[Minxy]

I can imagine there may be rules prohibiting the use of the same LPG tank to drive both engine and cooker/fridge etc. I'm sure someone with an LPG powered RV will come along soon to educate us all

I can't see how a single tank can be used for propulsion and appliances, the former is liquid take-off and the latter gas, so totally different outlets.

 

[Ridgeway]

Could well be a more expensive installation in DE due to regs. Here the same install is about 3k as a steel explosion box must be fitted and attached to the chassis before the bottles go in, not sure in DE if it’s the same ?

 

[Orion]

Could well be a more expensive installation in DE due to regs. Here the same install is about 3k as a steel explosion box must be fitted and attached to the chassis before the bottles go in, not sure in DE if it’s the same ?

Would this not be taken into account by the converters/manufacturers of the MoHo? I see that my Adria already has a metal gas compartment (which sitting on the chassis is already fixed to it) where the exit route for any ignition would be, as good practice for any explosive situation, through the weakest point - the door. I can’t imagine that they wouldn’t be producing vehicles suitable for a Europe wide market. For the OP it sounds more like the ‘special’ motorhome mark up is being applied!

 

[Tim McGann]

That's what I'm thinking. I also have an Adria Compact so if yours has the metal compartment then mine does also. I'll try to find other installation sources and get some quotes.

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[autorouter]

I can't see how a single tank can be used for propulsion and appliances, the former is liquid take-off and the latter gas, so totally different outlets.

Dual takeoff (gas & liquid) tanks are available, but not very common.

 

[Minxy]

Dual takeoff (gas & liquid) tanks are available, but not very common.

In private vehicles, eg cars, MHs etc, or commercial?

 

[eddie]

Yes my last four RV’s have been dual fuel (Petrol and LPG) out current one is still a Yank but a tiddler on a 3lt Mercedes’ chassis so diesel.

No problem filling anywhere.

Gaslow circa £800 last time I looked for a fully spec’s twin system, installation 1 - 2 hours depending on complexity

 

[rod_vw]

Reading all of the above about gas cylinder refilling can anyone answer this. Is G607 certification required for underslung gas cylinders here in the UK?

 

[autorouter]

In private vehicles, eg cars, MHs etc, or commercial?

I'm no expert, but I was thinking of something like this:

Stako - ASME/CRN

Produkcja zbiorników i urządzeń ciśnieniowych

stako.pl

I had a petrol/lpg Transit MH back in the last century, but I used calor cylinder for the habitation gas.

I was looking at having the MH diesel engine modified to run on a proportion of lpg. Diesels can't run fully on lpg but a proportion, up to 25%, maybe 50% is possible with some fairly major modifications. It's only worth it financially for trucks continuously in use, I think the break-even is about 100,000 miles. But it cuts down particulates and NOx emissions a lot. Decided against it eventually.

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[Steve and Denise]

For what it’s worth it would be easier in the UK as we all speak English and all components are readily available, I have always fitted my own but lots of companies about Alugas at Thirsk being one of them and very helpful too.

 

[autorouter]

For what it’s worth it would be easier in the UK as we all speak English and all components are readily available, I have always fitted my own but lots of companies about Alugas at Thirsk being one of them and very helpful too.

I always had the impression that there were many more LPG cars in the Netherlands and Italy than in the UK, much more of a thing outside the UK.

 

[funflair]

For what it’s worth it would be easier in the UK as we all speak English and all components are readily available, I have always fitted my own but lots of companies about Alugas at Thirsk being one of them and very helpful too.

Autogas2000 actually if anybody is looking for them

 

[jongood]

Yes, that would be a good starting point. My twin 11kg Alugas system was a fair bit below that but only as I carried out the installation and commissioning myself.

View attachment 709316

Nice neat install, but no crash sensing? and are those 11kg bottles?

 

[Orion]

Nice neat install, but no crash sensing? and are those 11kg bottles?

Thanks, yes 11kg, I could have possibly squeezed 14kg ones in but at the time there was a shortage of all sizes, so I took what I could and got a cracking deal on them anyway. No need for crash sensing pigtails with the Multivalve on the Alugas cylinders - from the website:

“The Alugas MV cylinder also incorporates in the gas off take valve a rupture protection (excess flow device) as a further safety feature which replaces the need for special “rupture protection” pigtails with this valve fitted to them. This allows for safe travel with gas turned on and, in some cases, where allowed, operate the vehicles heating while driving.”