Are my batteries definitely gone??

[Encantador]

Following on from this thread ..... need-new-hab-batteries-and-charger.276208

The new charger suggested by Lenny HB was fitted yesterday https://www.photonicuniverse.com/en...omatic-multi-stage-mains-battery-charger.html
seems to be working, so just need to satisfy myself that the hab batteries definitely need replacing and the problems were not just the starter being faulty.

Charged overnight, both hab batteries were checked with multimeter this morning and were showing 14.11 and 13.76
The display abover the door said 12.5

I turned off the hook up and the new charger, turned on about 8 lights (LED bulbs), and put the TV on. After about 3.5 hours everything went off. Checking the batteries again with multimeter showed both at 12.3 and the display above the door said 11.6

Does this suggest new batteries, or is there a slim possibility that something else is going on?

I have one solar panel but no display, so that may have been adding a little power today as it was sunny.

Thanks

Steve

 

[Badknee]

Display faulty and switching everything off?

 

[Lenny HB]

The distribution unit will normally cut out at 10.5v but that is an on load voltage, once it has cut out the battery voltage will rise. What is confusing me is you are getting a reading on your panel if the distribution unit has tripped everything should be off or have you turned it back on?

Having said that it does sound like one or both batteries are

You could check each battery separately to see if one is pulling the other one down but if they are a few years old might as well replace both.

 

[Encantador]

Thanks for the reply.

No, power still off when I checked again. I put the outside light on and just left it until I saw it had gone off.

 

[Encantador]

The distribution unit will normally cut out at 10.5v but that is an on load voltage, once it has cut out the battery voltage will rise. What is confusing me is you are getting a reading on your panel if the distribution unit has tripped everything should be off or have you turned it back on?

Not sure when you say 'tripped' you mean something that I have to turn back on or re-set in some way.

All I did was wait till the outside light went off, everything I had turned on (lights, TV) had gone off. I then just turned the hook up and charger back on.

Are there any other checks worth doing?

I have just turned lights/TV back on but this time with the hook up and charger turned on, so in theory should just stay on until turned off.

Steve

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[jongood]

Not sure when you say 'tripped' you mean something that I have to turn back on or re-set in some way.

All I did was wait till the outside light went off, everything I had turned on (lights, TV) had gone off. I then just turned the hook up and charger back on.

Are there any other checks worth doing?

I have just turned lights/TV back on but this time with the hook up and charger turned on, so in theory should just stay on until turned off.

Steve

Why dont you take one battery at a time off and see if the problems persists, although you really want to know what the resting voltages are

 

[Lenny HB]

Perhaps your unit doesn't shut down like mine, my Elektoblock will trip out at 10.5v then turn back on when the voltage has recovered.
So after it shut down did you measure the voltage before you put the EHU back & was it daylight with the solar connected?

 

[Encantador]

Perhaps your unit doesn't shut down like mine, my Elektoblock will trip out at 10.5v then turn back on when the voltage has recovered.
So after it shut down did you measure the voltage before you put the EHU back & was it daylight with the solar connected?

I kept an eye on the outside light, as soon as I noticed it had gone off I I checked the batteries and display before I turned the power back on.
I would guess that the batteries would have been checked within about 30 mins of everything going off. So if the batteries would have recovered a little after everything went off, it wouldnt have been that long.


It was daylight and the solar would have been adding a bit.

 

[Lenny HB]

The 12.3 would have been the voltage of the solar charging.

 

[Encantador]

Thanks again for the replies.

The bottom line appears to be that two healthy fully charged batteries (with a little solar help) should have lasted more than 3.5 hours so I need to bite the bullet and replace them.

Steve

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[Jev88]

I bought an old school battery load tester - two prongs and a coil inside that heats up for 5 seconds and shows how the battery voltage dives or not depending on battery condition. About £30 but takes a lot of battery guess work away

 

[Lenny HB]

I bought an old school battery load tester - two prongs and a coil inside that heats up for 5 seconds and shows how the battery voltage dives or not depending on battery condition. About £30 but takes a lot of battery guess work away

They don't do the battery any good and completely meaningless test on a leisure battery, if you want to test a starter battery buy a decent electronic one and bin that one before you wreck too many batteries.
To test a leisure battery you need to do a slow discharge test.

 

[Lenny HB]

Thanks again for the replies.

The bottom line appears to be that two healthy fully charged batteries (with a little solar help) should have lasted more than 3.5 hours so I need to bite the bullet and replace them.

Steve

Make sure they are fully charged, preferably test each one separately, unless they have been mistreated it is very unusual for Gels to fail.

To do a discharge test:-

First charge the battery fully and leave it to settle for an hour then:-
Disconnect all charging methods.

For example if it's a 100a/h battery load it with a 5 amp load and run for 5 hours, this will represent a 25% discharge. (adjust load/time to suit the size of the battery)
Disconnect the load and leave to stand for at least 30 min then measure the voltage.
Repeat the test and you will have discharged the battery to 50%.
You can repeat again then it will be 75% discharged.

 

[jongood]

Thanks again for the replies.

The bottom line appears to be that two healthy fully charged batteries (with a little solar help) should have lasted more than 3.5 hours so I need to bite the bullet and replace them.

Steve

FWIW I think you need to listen to Lennys advice, it could well be that your batteries are knackered but it could bd something else, its worth doing a resting voltage and capacity test. Its not difficult

 

[Encantador]

Thanks Lenny HB

How do you load it with 5 Amps?

If such a test suggests the batteries are OK, what could be the reason for everything going off after 3.5 hours?

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[Lenny HB]

Thanks Lenny HB

How do you load it with 5 Amps?

If such a test suggests the batteries are OK, what could be the reason for everything going off after 3.5 hours?

Not charged like you thought they were.

For an initial test you could could leave them in the van connected together.
For a test it is best to discharge at the C20rate which would be an 8amp load assuming you have 2 x 80 ah Gels.
10 amps will be close enough then 4 hours with a 10 amp load will be 25% discharge.
As we are leaving the batteries in situ just turn on some lights, stereo etc., until you are drawing 10 amps.

 

[Encantador]

They are not Gels as far as I know. One is about 10 years old and the other older, maybe even the original from 2007.

The new battery charger left on all night indicated on the display that the charging had finished when I checked this morning.

How do I know when there is a 10amp load?

 

[Jev88]

They don't do the battery any good and completely meaningless test on a leisure battery, if you want to test a starter battery buy a decent electronic one and bin that one before you wreck too many batteries.
To test a leisure battery you need to do a slow discharge test.

Sorry yes.... I was talking Engine battery

 

[autorouter]

It's strange that the display voltage is so far off from the multimeter voltage. I'd dismiss it as a bad display meter, except that the other problems might be related. If there really is a voltage drop of nearly one volt then that would cause a problem. Is this display panel separate from the fusebox, or does the display have fuses as well? Maybe post a pic of it. Can you measure the voltage on the wires connecting to the display?

Worth checking obvious things like: check that the voltage on the actual battery terminals and on the terminal clamps is the same (to rule out bad clamp connection)

 

[UptheGas]

Just want to say Lenny HB is a bit of a forum legend on here , very knowledgeable!

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[Encantador]

It's strange that the display voltage is so far off from the multimeter voltage. I'd dismiss it as a bad display meter, except that the other problems might be related. If there really is a voltage drop of nearly one volt then that would cause a problem. Is this display panel separate from the fusebox, or does the display have fuses as well? Maybe post a pic of it. Can you measure the voltage on the wires connecting to the display?

Worth checking obvious things like: check that the voltage on the actual battery terminals and on the terminal clamps is the same (to rule out bad clamp connection)

Thanks for the replies.

Bateries on charge for over 24 hours. New charger indicating that charging cycle complete.

Display above door shows 13.2 which is the same as both batteries using multimeter. No difference between the terminal or clamps.

 

[autorouter]

So, when everything is charged up, and no amps are flowing, the battery voltage displays read the same as the multimeter. But when the batteries were being charged, the displays and multimeter readings were different.

There's a voltage drop somewhere, a resistance somewhere in the wiring. One likely candidate is one of the the positive battery clamps. There seems to be visible corrosion on the screws, and possibly on the wiring lugs and inside the battery clamp. Another possibility is the chassis earth connection, either at the battery or the chassis connection

 

[Encantador]

So, when everything is charged up, and no amps are flowing, the battery voltage displays read the same as the multimeter. But when the batteries were being charged, the displays and multimeter readings were different.

There's a voltage drop somewhere, a resistance somewhere in the wiring. One likely candidate is one of the the positive battery clamps. There seems to be visible corrosion on the screws, and possibly on the wiring lugs and inside the battery clamp. Another possibility is the chassis earth connection, either at the battery or the chassis connection

Thanks, I will check it out.

 

[jongood]

Thanks for the replies.

Bateries on charge for over 24 hours. New charger indicating that charging cycle complete.

Display above door shows 13.2 which is the same as both batteries using multimeter. No difference between the terminal or clamps.

View attachment 717840 View attachment 717841 View attachment 717842 View attachment 717843 View attachment 717844 View attachment 717848

what I would want to know is, what tbe voltages are when the charging has finished, the solar isnt working and hasnt been for a good hour or two? might be a good idea to disconnect one of them so you get the separate voltages.

 

[ChrisL]

One is about 10 years old and the other older,

I would have thought they are almost certainly shot at that age.

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[Roger J Holman]

IMHO, if your batteries are that old, they are ready for replacement. Probably best to have them replaced by a reputable specialist supplier who will be able to check the voltages/amperages before and after he has extracted your hard earned cash. If there is subsequently a problem, you return to supplier and ask for (demand) assistance .

 

[Peregrinator]

Following on from this thread ..... need-new-hab-batteries-and-charger.276208

The new charger suggested by Lenny HB was fitted yesterday https://www.photonicuniverse.com/en...omatic-multi-stage-mains-battery-charger.html
seems to be working, so just need to satisfy myself that the hab batteries definitely need replacing and the problems were not just the starter being faulty.

Charged overnight, both hab batteries were checked with multimeter this morning and were showing 14.11 and 13.76
The display abover the door said 12.5

I turned off the hook up and the new charger, turned on about 8 lights (LED bulbs), and put the TV on. After about 3.5 hours everything went off. Checking the batteries again with multimeter showed both at 12.3 and the display above the door said 11.6

Does this suggest new batteries, or is there a slim possibility that something else is going on?

I have one solar panel but no display, so that may have been adding a little power today as it was sunny.

Thanks

Steve

Use Lenny HB advice about testing the batteries.

 

[Roger J Holman]

IMHO it suggests that the batteries are buggered, however, a trip to somewhere which will have the capacity to perform a propper test on them will confirm, or discount, that diagnosis. A simple 'Drop Test' should be all that is required.

 

[Lenny HB]

IMHO it suggests that the batteries are buggered, however, a trip to somewhere which will have the capacity to perform a propper test on them will confirm, or discount, that diagnosis. A simple 'Drop Test' should be all that is required.

Total waste of time on a leisure and it won't do the battery much good either.

 

[Peregrinator]

IMHO it suggests that the batteries are buggered, however, a trip to somewhere which will have the capacity to perform a propper test on them will confirm, or discount, that diagnosis. A simple 'Drop Test' should be all that is required.

Take it to any A1 Car Parts shop, they will test at no cost, phone them first to double check their tester is working.

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