Are motorhomes becoming too complicated? (1 Viewer)

[funflair]

I should write a manual. I do sometimes surprise myself when I remember why I did something and how its meant to work

You certainly will if you ever sell it/him.

Martin

 

[Barclaybasher]

Simple is best..

 

[mitzimad]

the biggest problem with most vehicles is emission controls there was a point when electronic ignition and fuel injection had rid most cars of their weakest links some where in the late eighties early ninties depending on the price range everything after that is to reduce emissions and is a pain

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[Techno]

the biggest problem with most vehicles is emission controls there was a point when electronic ignition and fuel injection had rid most cars of their weakest links some where in the late eighties early ninties depending on the price range everything after that is to reduce emissions and is a pain

Absolutely and mine is retro'd for want of a better term

 

[Techno]

Progress sells vans ultimately.
Compare to TV's would you like a 20" valve TV or a 50" flat screen that lasts for years or until a better technology userps it.

 

[Techno]

I think in the main because they probably supply the lions share of electronics that anything under the Dometic umbrella is prone to a quite high proportion of faults and from experience use customers for product testing.
Parts prices outside of warranty are abominable

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[Barclaybasher]

Progress sells vans ultimately.
Compare to TV's would you like a 20" valve TV or a 50" flat screen that lasts for years or until a better technology userps it.

We sell gas fires

Regularly we are told that the gas fire or boiler has broken..... after 20, 30 or even 40 years, somethings don't move on ...........simple mechanical things.........

Petrol and diesel engines have improved in performance but become much more complicated, I would put my 2.5 non turbo diesel against any modern engine

 

[Techno]

We sell gas fires

Regularly we are told that the gas fire or boiler has broken..... after 20, 30 or even 40 years, somethings don't move on ...........simple mechanical things.........

Petrol and diesel engines have improved in performance but become much more complicated, I would put my 2.5 non turbo diesel against any modern engine

race yer

 

[Barclaybasher]

race yer

Anytime

Be afraid, be very afraid...........

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[Minxy]

Crap I forgot the fridge didn't I what a saga but fixed after two years no thanks to Dometic who failed miserably

... when's your boiler going to fizzle out though Andy, you've got that nice new spare one sitting there gathering dust and your old one will take the huff one day and say "sod ya then, use the other b*gger!" ...

 

[tonyidle]

To my mind the 'problem' with MH electronics is they suffer from lack of development. It's a relatively small market and cannot support the amount of effort that, for example, vehicle manufacturers put into R & D. One of the best examples of this is the fridge. Behind the AES and LCD panel is the same rusting contraption that became available in the '70s. No improvements have been made in weatherproofing the rear, improving access, easing removal, etc. But it's now fronted with an over-priced and relatively unreliable user control panel. The same applies to the now common LCD panels used to control habitation power services, tank levels, etc. Just behind that posh display is the same stuff that has been there forever. It wouldn't matter if spares were available at sensible prices but they aren't. Instead the manufacturer is happy to charge several hundred pounds for under twenty quids-worth of electronics. Much the same as the motor industry.

 

[JJ]

Picture the scene...

A boardroom with a large "executive" style table in it.

Seated around the table are a load of suited sales, marketing and design people. A couple of financial experts will be there too.

I suspect the majority of them are men. I am pretty certain none of them have slept or cooked or lounged in a motorhome ever. I bet they haven't answered a call of nature in one either.

They will be talking normal, business speak bollocks, about maximising the brand image and adding perceived value to the latest products, which, in our scene, is the next generation of their company's campervans.

The sales people need stuff they can tell the innocent victims who they have attracted to their showroom, is new and exclusive to their range... like a fridge which chooses the best power source to use without needing to touch anything... a thermostatically controlled central heating system which uses pipes with hot water pumping through them, weaving their way unseen, around the van, to radiators "just like in your own home". A light which switches on when you wink at it.

"How about a computer contolled hot water supply, which you can switch on remotely, fed to the bath room and kitchen sinks?" suggests a designer. "We can call it an intuitive, temperature assisted, liquid cleansing experience".

"Brilliant!" responds the marketing guy, "We can knock up some cool copy about it for the brochure..."

and so it goes on and on and on...

I bet no one worries one iota about the possibility of the finished article getting stuck on wet grass or experiencing wheel spin going up a slightly damp bit of tarmac. The show room doesn't have grass or slopes.

Can't change a light bulb? Never mind... sales can sell them a new unit, glass and all.

My heart bleeds when I read of folk who have invested huge amounts of their life's savings on a vehicle which has far more (expensive) nonsense fitted to it than they need, after listening to the smooth talking sales blokes at the motorhome shows (in suits).

They go away for a weekend and the butter melts because the "chip" on the control board has failed.

"Don't worry... it will be fixed under warranty... we have ordered the part... it should be here in six weeks".

They freeze nearly to death because the sensor in the heating system detects a slight drop in voltage so it can't fire up. (The voltage has dropped because the battery is cold and it won't increase until it warms up which it can't do because the heater won't ignite!)

My 1987 Mercedes based Hymer 660S has hot water to the kitchen and bathroom sink and the shower. A simple gas boiler heats the water. A gas space heater warms the interior... you can use a built in fan to blow the warm air around the van if you want but you don't need to. No electricity? You can still keep warm. It has a fridge you can light yourself even if the standard AA battery is low.

No turbo, no engine management system, no sensors cutting the engine off in motorway traffic because a mosquito has landed in the air filter, no electronic boxes to turn the wipers on automatically if it rains. It hasn't even got an oversized, toothed, rubber band turning the camshaft which, if it breaks, leaves you with a huge bill for engine repairs.

I definitely believe motorhomes have become stupidly and unecessarily complicated...

But hey... if you are happy with all these "modern" advances then fair play to you...

Each to their own.

JJ

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[wigster]

Top post JJ .

 

[Robert Clark]

An example : I can never understand is the need for an electric step, except in RV's that are so high off the ground.... poor design if you need one on a Euro van

They're a necessity if you've got hydraulic levelling or on the highest point on your ramps.

 

[Robert Clark]

I love all the little conveniences:

Hydraulic levelling
Inverter
Solar
Nespresso machine
Fridge Freezer
Dimable LED lights
MIFI
Sat Nav

I'm all for innovation and modernisation
For me, camping is about enjoying life's little luxuries, in comfort, in a simple, un crowded environment, in the most beautiful locations.

It's not about slumming it, or having to do without.

Life is short - enjoy yourself

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[Barclaybasher]

I love all the little conveniences:
Hydraulic levelling, Inverter, Solar, Nespresso machine, Fridge Freezer, Dimable LED lights
MIFI, Sat Nav. I'm all innovation and modernisation
For me, camping is about enjoying life's little luxuries, in comfort, in a simple, un crowded environment, in the most beautiful locations. It's not about slumming it, or having to do without. Life is short - enjoy yourself

Camping is normally done voluntarily, as a holiday, something different..........because it's enjoyable.... those that do it out of necessity are called homeless people.

If I 'slum it' by camping without, what I consider to be, frivolous, unnecessary gadgets it's because I don't need or want them..........at home or away

My criticism is not about the folks that buy complicated, over-stuffed, expensive vans but the way the makers convince us that you need all this 'stuff'.......and often at the cost of lack of payload which then restricts the new owner what he can actually take with him on his 'luxury cruise'

I am very happy with my little, fully equipped 'slum' ...........

2.5 non turbo diesel, toilet, shower, fridge, cooker, heating, hot water (all standard in 1991) 'extras'.... Garmin satnav (sticks to window), Cello tv/dvd player, digital aerial, mobile phone, reversing camera......... van cost just over £6k 2 years ago, extras valued at £300-£400.... often use it as a 'daily driver', 'cos I actually enjoy driving it, been to Spain and it fits easily on my drive............

As for self-leveling, I can do that.........I find a flat place to park/camp

It's a good job we all like different things, or there would be a very long queue behind one very unfortunate lady...........

 

[Robert Clark]

Camping is normally done voluntarily, as a holiday, something different..........because it's enjoyable.... those that do it out of necessity are called homeless people.

If I 'slum it' by camping without, what I consider to be, frivolous, unnecessary gadgets it's because I don't need or want them..........at home or away

My criticism is not about the folks that buy complicated, over-stuffed, expensive vans but the way the makers convince us that you need all this 'stuff'.......and often at the cost of lack of payload which then restricts the new owner what he can actually take with him on his 'luxury cruise'

I am very happy with my little, fully equipped 'slum' ...........
View attachment 118982

2.5 non turbo diesel, toilet, shower, fridge, cooker, heating, hot water (all standard in 1991) 'extras'.... Garmin satnav (sticks to window), Cello tv/dvd player, digital aerial, mobile phone, reversing camera......... van cost just over £6k 2 years ago, extras valued at £300-£400.... often use it as a 'daily driver', 'cos I actually enjoy driving it, been to Spain and it fits easily on my drive............

As for self-leveling, I can do that.........I find a flat place to park/camp

It's a good job we all like different things, or there would be a very long queue behind one very unfortunate lady...........

But if modern vans were too complicated people would probably not but then.
MH technology is probably much the same as home technology - everyone wants the gadgets and features they are familiar with.

Too complicated ? Probably not

Reliably built? That's a different matter altogether.

 

[scotjimland]

I definitely believe motorhomes have become stupidly and unecessarily complicated...

Agree with @JJ ..

I never want to own a van that I can't fix myself .. or by the local mechanic in the 'under the arches' garage.. and for touring outside Europe.. e.g. Morocco.. simple is best.

A good example of over designed and over complicated is the British Army SA80 assault rifle....

Initially, the SA80 was a very poor weapon system, with a well deserved reputation of literally falling apart in the hands of soldiers. In the late 1990's, H&K won a contract to significantly improve the SA80 rifle, and by most accounts has resolved most of the issues with the weapon.

It's worth noting, that even after those changes that the SA-80 has found very, very few export customers (two, I believe), while the list of M4/M16 customers is quite long... And includes the British!


The AK 47 is 'probably' the Worlds most successful assault rifle.. it's simple, can be maintained by a shepherd, cheap to make and can be made using very basic technology.. they are made in workshops in the back streets in Pakistan.. and no doubt in many other underdeveloped countries.

The Russian military know all about keeping it simple..


I'm firmly in the KISS camp..

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[Phillybarbour]

Had ours 3 1/2 years, several early faults but all sorted soon after collecting. Since then nothing gone wrong so overall not to complicated for me.

It's more a about are they more prone to problems, my personal experience says no they are not.

 

[Deleted member 29692]

I think I'm half and half here. Some "complicated gadgets" I wouldn't be without, Alde heating for instance makes the van so much better to use through the winter, and others like the satellite dish, sat nav, iBoost and mifi make using the van a far more comfortable experience although I wouldn't say any of them are essential.

Others I don't get - self levelling ramps for one. We're just not that bothered about being perfectly level. As long as the fridge works and my drink stays on the table it's level enough. We don't even use the ramps unless either it's really bad or we're going to be parked up for several days.

The other one is the stupid pod/capsule coffee machines that everyone seems to be obsessed with. I don't understand why people want something that's a huge backwards step from decent real coffee.

 

[JJ]

It's not about slumming it, or having to do without.

One man's "slumming" it is another man's simple living whilst enjoying the things that really matter and which lift his soul.

I blame Thatcher and the pursuit of economic growth...

Look at that sunset, smell the eucalyptus leaves and have a good scratch...

JJ

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[Tanya_and_Mick]

Voice recognition, internet of things (fridges and air con auto adjusting to local weather) and Star Trek sliding doors will be the next generation - can't wait......

 

[Barclaybasher]

Agree with @JJ ..
I never want to own a van that I can't fix myself .. or by the local mechanic in the 'under the arches' garage.. and for touring outside Europe.. e.g. Morocco.. simple is best.
A good example of over designed and over complicated is the British Army SA80 assault rifle....
Initially, the SA80 was a very poor weapon system, with a well deserved reputation of literally falling apart in the hands of soldiers. In the late 1990's, H&K won a contract to significantly improve the SA80 rifle, and by most accounts has resolved most of the issues with the weapon.
It's worth noting, that even after those changes that the SA-80 has found very, very few export customers (two, I believe), while the list of M4/M16 customers is quite long... And includes the British!
The AK 47 is 'probably' the Worlds most successful assault rifle.. it's simple, can be maintained by a shepherd, cheap to make and can be made using very basic technology.. they are made in workshops in the back streets in Pakistan.. and no doubt in many other underdeveloped countries.
The Russian military know all about keeping it simple..
I'm firmly in the KISS camp..

Exactly !............ keep it simple..........for Motorhome security.... an AK47 !.............

 

[GWAYGWAY]

I think it may be a nightmare for owner and dealer where electronics fail but generally almost anything is a problem for dealers is it not

What worries me is that when I see some of the TECHNICIANS that dealers, call their grease monkeys, some of them seem to have less idea about these complexities than my cat . Seeing one do a simple job like fitting an awning and he was hacking the adaptor to pieces with drill and multiple holes. God know what happens when they get some complex electronics to fix. Maybe the manuals that are supplied to them spell it out in short words. Maybe they have some oracle that sits in the back of the workshop and does know what is to be done, but I doubt it.

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[GWAYGWAY]

My van is probably at least twice as complicated as Rapido made it but it all works fine until I lose my memory then it'll be a laugh

Likewise I do all my work on everything I have, but sometime a wiring diagram or a workshop manual would be handy. These things however live in the dealer's safe , never to be viewed or told to the money supplier, in case they can do it better.
I was told be one, 'that is strictly confidential information' all I wanted was to know where the aerial cable end was hidden up.

 

[Lot lover]

The customer is king, if you don't buy it they will soon stop making and trying to sell it.

I blame the Jones family next door.

 

[GWAYGWAY]

[QUOTE="
The other one is the stupid pod/capsule coffee machines that everyone seems to be obsessed with. I don't understand why people want something that's a huge backwards step from decent real coffee.[/QUOTE]

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[GWAYGWAY]

][QUOTE="
The other one is the stupid pod/capsule coffee machines that everyone seems to be obsessed with. I don't understand why people want something that's a huge backwards step from decent real coffee.[/QUOTE]
Sorry slight technical hitch and finger trouble there.
All I was going to say I make my coffee with a cup spoon and a jar of the one I like, put them together with some hot water and Voila it is a cup of coffee add milk as required. NO MACHINE and a load of money still in my wallet that would have been needed to pay for and replace it when it goes wrong

 

[Chris51]

We sell gas fires

Regularly we are told that the gas fire or boiler has broken..... after 20, 30 or even 40 years, somethings don't move on ...........simple mechanical things.........

Petrol and diesel engines have improved in performance but become much more complicated, I would put my 2.5 non turbo diesel against any modern engine

My last van had a 2.5 none turbo (Peugeot)on hills it was so slow it was painfull-got one now with a euro 4 /2.2 Tranny engine-fast and economical.

 

[Barclaybasher]

My last van had a 2.5 none turbo (Peugeot)on hills it was so slow it was painfull-got one now with a euro 4 /2.2 Tranny engine-fast and economical.

Mine still pulls like a train, can overtake most lorries on most hills, only been overtaken once or twice

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