Any updates from Lifos battery users (1 Viewer)

[scotzsue]

We are thinking if getting a 105/ah Lifos partly because of the’drop in’ facility.
Am aware that the last 12 months haven’t been the best for judging how well they do.
Need to know if the swap from normal to lithium is as easy as it seems. Our existing charger, according to manufacturers is suitable for charging lithium.
Long winded, so have you changed was it easy are you happy with your set up.
Don’t want the pros and cons have read all the threads that mention lithium.
So folks if you have made the change would you do the same again.

 

[ManTheVan]

Would I do it again? No, because I’ve already done it! Delighted with the outcome and the freedom from hook-up.

If we ever changed the MH, yes, I would definitely refit LiFePO4. No question.

 

[poppycamper]

Would i do it..YES
Have I done it .. YES
Would I do it again.. YES YES.

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[TinaLes]

Brands would be useful guys, I see some of the new ones have built in BMS, and are "allegedly" plug & play with normal CBE chargers & Victron Solar Chargers, set to Lithium of course.
These have been recommended, but very expensive, especially if you have two. 5year warranty though
Les

12v 100AH Low Box Relion Lithium ion Battery RB100-D - Alpha Batteries

Special European Low Box size for under seat fitments Features• Up to 70% lighter than lead-acid batteries of a comparative size […]

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[Zepp]

We fitted 3 x 100 amp transporter batteries I just wish we had got them fitted earlier

We now run a extra compressor freezer in the garage and yes I would fit them again

 

[Pausim]

I can’t answer for Lifos because I have a different make (Relion) but as a general comment I agree with poppycamper

Would i do it..YES
Have I done it .. YES
Would I do it again.. YES YES.

I have already moved the Li battery from my old to my new motorhome.

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[ManTheVan]

Brands would be useful guys, I see some of the new ones have built in BMS, and are "allegedly" plug & play with normal CBE chargers & Victron Solar Chargers, set to Lithium of course.
These have been recommended, but very expensive, especially if you have two. 5year warranty though
Les

12v 100AH Low Box Relion Lithium ion Battery RB100-D - Alpha Batteries

Special European Low Box size for under seat fitments Features• Up to 70% lighter than lead-acid batteries of a comparative size […]

www.alpha-batteries.co.uk

Ultramax LiFePO4 100Ah - afaik, all LiFePO4 have a BMS. This one certainly does.
Sterling mains charger and B2B, both with LiFePO4 profiles.
Victron smartsolar controller, also set to LiFePO4 profile.

 

[pete4x4]

I fitted a Lifebatteries 150Ah LiFePO4 battery in October, have Victron Solar, B2B and charger. For my sins I also fitted a RaspberryPi running the Victronn Venus OS and Mifi to monitor it all. I was nervous with the first lockdown that solar would not maintain the battery due to the discharge of the monitoring system but I could still visit the van in storage.
I was impressed with how the lithium performed, we went away for a week in October and it gave me a lot of confidence that I could run several days without worrying.
However I bottled it with this lock down and put a lead acid back in as I was worried the solar wouldnt keep the battery charged particualrly as there has only been 1 day here when the temperature went above 5C since Dec 23rd so nearly 3 weeks without any charge. I also disconnected the monitoring.
I would have left it as is if I had had access to the van but the storage facility is now off limits and I wasnt prepeared to risk £640 of battery.
I would definitely swap over but I'm not convinced of drop in replacements particularly with mains charging unless it specifically has a Lithium setting and also some temperature protection, you can do serious harm charging below 0C

 

[Pausim]

I would definitely swap over but I'm not convinced of drop in replacements particularly with mains charging unless it specifically has a Lithium setting and also some temperature protection, you can do serious harm charging below 0C

I don’t think mains charging with original equipment is a significant problem. The worst it will do is undercharge the Li a little bit and when on mains who cares, you don’t need a full battery when on mains. Undercharging Li batteries is not a problem (unlike lead acid) so you will not harm it. The only time I worry about having the battery fully charged is when I arrive at an off grid location, so I have a B2B to take care of that.

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[Millcourt]

I fitted 2 Lifos batteries to our new MoHo 18 months ago. Had initial problems due too misinformation from supplying Dealer. Due to Covid restrictions/lockdown etc resolving this took longer than I would have hoped. I have previously posted reports on the installation and 12 months on. Expect you have seen these.

Had two problems. The first was that I had an unmatched pair of Lifos batteries sold to me by the supplying dealer (who did not understand what he was selling). I had to fit 2 because of the constraints on space where they were to be installed...... as you are only fitting one (a larger battery) you will have no such problem. The Importer (Solar Technology) were really helpful and readily exchanged the two batteries. The second problem was the initial wiring of the B2B charger which did not give the required charging. This was easily resolved following a very helpful exchange of emails (in English) with Schaudt (the manufacturer) in Germany.

I am very happy with the installation now that my early problems are resolved. I would install Lifos again in any new van. I have had no problems being off-grid for a week without engine use, even though the MoHo has a compressor fridge powered solely by 12 volt. This was with 250 watt solar input in mixed weather conditions - not bright sunshine all day. However I would emphasise they need to have a B2B charger (with a Lithium setting) to successfully recharge from the engine alternator. I have had no problems using the manufacturer fitted EHU charger on the AGM setting, which Solar Technology advised as suitable.

I should also mention that the inbuilt BMS appears to take care of everything necessary and that the Lifos Smartphone Bluetooth App is easy to use and gives reliable information about state of charge and usage.

 

[Mike Warland]

We are thinking if getting a 105/ah Lifos partly because of the’drop in’ facility.
Am aware that the last 12 months haven’t been the best for judging how well they do.
Need to know if the swap from normal to lithium is as easy as it seems. Our existing charger, according to manufacturers is suitable for charging lithium.
Long winded, so have you changed was it easy are you happy with your set up.
Don’t want the pros and cons have read all the threads that mention lithium.
So folks if you have made the change would you do the same again.

I had a 120ah lifepo4 battery from KS Energy at Upton on Severn he installed it for me. It has Bluetooth and will not charge below 0c. It has been excellent and he assured me it will work well as a drop in replacement. It has been great and charges well from the alternator, I also have 100ah solar panel.

 

[scotzsue]

John has asked if:-
Are you using the original charger or did that need to be changed?

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[MobyDick57]

I had 2 x 100ah LIFOs batteries fitted with Schaud B2B charger, 430 solar and standard (non lithium) EBL plus 2kw inverter. Had nothing but problems with False BMS Bluetooth readings and insufficient charging. So read up more and think the following (although no proof).
1. BMS could not cope with the 2kw inverter due to discharge limits.
2. The batteries were not in sink with each other.
3. If installing lithium batteries then ensure all charging units have lithium capabilities.
4. Ensure the batteries discharge capacity is sufficient.
My dealer was very understanding and we reached a solution. Installed 2 x 100 Transporter lithium batteries and a Votronic triple charger. So far no reason to plug into mains even now in winter

 

[MobyDick57]

Also I contacted the NCC, who informed me that hopefully in Spring they will have a list by category of Lithium Batteries, which will be very useful to us all. Because all Lithium Batteries are not equal

 

[Mike Warland]

I

John has asked if:-
Are you using the original charger or did that need to be changed?

I was advised by KS Energy that it was not necessary to change the charger as the bms would manage the charge.

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[Pausim]

When I first installed a LiFePO4 battery in my Hymer I fitted a Sterling mains charger with an Li profile. When I moved it to my Carthago I decided to see how the existing CBE charger performed. The CBE charger is doing fine on the gel setting and I will not be bothering to fit the Sterling one. It is sitting in my garage at home, I occasionally turn it on to look after the gel battery I took out. I transferred my B2B, my inverter and my battery monitor but not the mains charger.

 

[Lenny HB]

Also I contacted the NCC, who informed me that hopefully in Spring they will have a list by category of Lithium Batteries, which will be very useful to us all. Because all Lithium Batteries are not equal

Waste of time all NCC do is print what the manufacturer tells them.

 

[MobyDick57]

I installed the same setup in our motorhome, however it has 6 x 100ah Transporter lithium batteries. In both case, not had an issue with the setup so far (touch wood)

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[MobyDick57]

Waste of time all NCC do is print what the manufacturer tells them.

I agree, however it will be interesting which batteries brands are in each category

 

[Lenny HB]

I agree, however it will be interesting which batteries brands are in each category

The ones who pay them the highest fees will be in the A list.
Me cynical, no way.

 

[Millcourt]

Because of the current cold weather (usually in Spain at this time of year.....but, due to Covid restrictions!!!) I was concerned about the temperature limitations for LIFOS batteries. (I think the same constraints apply for other LiFePo4 batteries.) These are that you can not discharge below -20 deg C and will cause damage if charging below 0 deg C.

Our MoHo is kept at a storage site with EHU. I leave the EHU connected to maintain the AGM starter battery and also to be sure that I do not over an extended period deplete the LIFOS pair with drain for the alarm, tracker etc. I am not expecting -20 degC limiting current draw, but last night it was forecast to be -3 deg C and I was concerned that continuing to leave on charge might be a problem. I had presumed that the inbuilt BMS would take care of this situation.

I sent an enquiry to Solar Technology yesterday afternoon and received an email reply this morning confirming that the inbuilt BMS will not allow the battery to charge/discharge when outside of the specified temperature ranges.

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[Harvard]

Fitted a LIFOS 105. Researched and received positive responses from users. It charged ok from all 3 sources and powered fridge etc very well. However it wouldn’t power the Inverter. When powering on the Inverter the BMS output dropped to 5V for c 0.5s causing the N&B controller to turn off. After 3 or 4 power ons it would stay on but of course the Motorhome was then in controller shutdown. Also sometimes when turning on EHU this also shut down the Controller. Spoke many times to both the Supplier and the UK LIFOS staff. View was that the BMS was over sensitive. LIFOS offered to take it back and look at it for me. Decided to return to supplier for refund. Also the IOS Ap has a bug, it works ok but words are overlayed on others, no intent to resolve.
Reading other data sheets for Lithium with integrated BMS they all mention Inverters as a problem load.
Still don’t know if this battery had a manufacturing fault or the sensitivity of the BMS wrt Capacitive loads is normal.
Due to Lockdown re-fitted the AGMs for now.
My experience leads to a non-recommendation for LIFOS and suspicious of integrated BMSs.
Interested to hear if others have a good experience with powering an Inverter with an integrated BMS setup.

 

[Pausim]

Never had a problem between my Relion with integrated BMS and Victron inverter. The inverter is within the capacity the battery can deliver and initially I turn it on with a minimal load.

 

[pete4x4]

I have a 600w 1200w pk inverter on my 150ah battery internal bms no issues but does have soft start.

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[Millcourt]

Harvard ..... you do not say what type of Invertor you were trying to use or the wattage rating. The Lifos 105 Ah is rated as having a maximum discharge current of 120 Amps. For simplicity, let us say 120 amps at 12 volts equates to around 1,400 watts. I heard of someone who was surprised that his 2 KW inverter would not work with this set up!

I have had 2 Lifos 68 Ah for 18 months. Each has a max continuous discharge rate of 80 amps. As they are wired in parallel this can yield 160 amps if needed....... equating to around 1,900 watts. My 1,500 watt pure sine wave inverter has always worked without a problem. Obviously we do not run it for extended periods at this sort of loading, but it meets SWMBO's hair tongue and dryer needs, using the electric toaster, recharging the Dyson Vac and (for limited use) running the portable 1,000 watt induction hob, when we are off-grid (most of the time).

 

[Harvard]

Good to hear others have no problems. It’s not quiescent load that was the problem, initial power up with the 1000W inverter with no load or with a small load caused the drop to 5V. There will be a Capacitive impedance on the Inverter input. At initial power on this Capacitance is effectively short circuit hence taking infinite power for a very very short time. It was this I believe causing the BMS to reduce the power supplied and hence dropping the output voltage accordingly. Once the Capacitor is charged then all is well. Yes it did supply a kW ok but I couldn’t have the Motorhome Control Panel shutting down on each Inverter power on.
I can believe that a ‘softer start’ Inverter may resolve the problem but still wary of an Inverter on an integrated BMS.
Shame, because I do want to change to Lithium but don’t want to change all inputs to charge one without an integrated BMS.

 

[Raul]

Your inverter start up creates a big surge, and a voltage drop. The voltage drop can be caused by undersized cables, poor connections or crimps and tired caps. The capacitors take a huge surge, sometimes the cable sparks when connected first time. Once energised it should not surge on remote switch for on off normal operation.

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[Harvard]

Raul, all very true. The 5V measured at the battery terminals though, leads are 5mm diameter and only 300mm long. If I’d left it turned on and operated on the remote control then yes I would have had a viable setup. However I couldn’t put up with the N&B control panel shutting down on each Inverter power up.

 

[funflair]

Raul, all very true. The 5V measured at the battery terminals though, leads are 5mm diameter and only 300mm long. If I’d left it turned on and operated on the remote control then yes I would have had a viable setup. However I couldn’t put up with the N&B control panel shutting down on each Inverter power up.

Hi Kevin

You can most likely guess one of my suggestions

Other more sensible observations though, I think it might be worth looking at LiFePO4 batteries that have a higher current and peek current rating, Super-B Epsilon for example at 90ah and sold as drop in lead acid replacement are 200A continuous and 350A peak, there will be others I am sure but it does seem to be this maximum amps figure that differentiates the competing brands.