antisocial camp site owner (1 Viewer)

[robinmclaren]

why not a camp site

as i seem to have a very mixed response to this i will explain why do we enjoy our car park , after upgrading to a large motorhome with towcar last year from a toyota hiace our usual campsite could not accept us anymore so we booked 2 weeks at another site within walking distance of our favourite beach, on arival we found the site like a mudbath and declined the offer of being towed up the campsite with a tractor , stuck for a site we went to ayr holiday park for a few nights in st ives which is a fantasic site with superb views and toilet block better than any i have seen and i have seen a few in 20 years of camping , but not a cheap site , we had a night on the road by st michaels mount , what a view to wake up to ( not sure if this one is legal but over 15 motorhomes there when we stopped ) we tried booking a site but all full as peak season with only the odd night here and there , we then found our car park which is owed by a motorhome owner and vantasic views even if weather not so good , 20 ft walk onto the beach for children as soon as sun out and enough local facilaties to make it very pleasant , local people in the village we spoke to all very pleased to have us there with no adverse comments and stunned by the motorhome running all its equiptment with no electricity , the campsite owner in my first story ( yes i have the name of it ) lives about 5 miles from car park but i will not name it as she may have been having a off day , out of respect for local buisness should have paid for a ticket on her car as it is a pay and display that relies on income to survive
we encountered bad motorhome owners last summer who emptied their waste water on the car park , ran a generator for power which does annoy local people when it is silent ( did cause complaints to the landowner )and left lots of rubbish on the floor behind them ( maybe the council bins 10 ft from them was to far away , these people will destroy nice spots and do not deserve to stay anywhere, we have invested a lot of money in large solar panels , decent batteries , amperor unit for tv, and a small inverter just for my better halfs hairdryer and straightners , works great is silent and respects the enviroment we all love to enjoy
why should we not have the fredom to enjoy the views and locations we want and not be forced into a field
ps . we pay lots of tax and vat and could winge all day about how me loose income to other people but that is life live with it , if you are good and people like your buisness you will get repeat and new trade always



,quote=robinmclaren;134471]there we were last week in cornwall at one of our favourite spots 20 foot from the beach with views straight on to it 10pm all silent except the noise of the sea , yes it was on a private car park with parking ticket paid for and owner accepts motorhomes stay overnight so perfectly legal .
a car pulls up next to us with very loud music and obviously trying to make a pain of themselves , after 10 minutes i went out to see what the problem was as my son was asleep , i met a very rude lady who started asking why i was staying there and telling me she was going to inform the council and police about motorhomes staying illegally in a car park , after calming her down it turns out she runs a campsite and is struggling for buisness and is miffed that motorhomes enjoy the fredom to pick their own views and do not have to be restricted to using only sites miles from anywhere that were mostly waterlogged last year , she also whined that motorhomes only wanted to pull up for 1 night stays to get water and electric and then go, hopefully i have cleared a few of her questions for her but do not think i would want to stay on her site.[/quote]

 

[Diabalo]

Can one of the wild campers please tell me what they do with their grey and black waste and where they get fresh water from?

 

[haganap]

Can one of the wild campers please tell me what they do with their grey and black waste and where they get fresh water from?

Hi dane,
When we wild camp we keep it on board for a whils and then drop it off at home.
What we tend to do is mix a bit of wilding with a bit of campsites. So when we use a campsite we do all our cleansiness stuff.

Personaly when we wild camp we do so in forests or remote spots for the wildlife.
We use campsites more often but only the sort that we find reasonably priced or good value for money. We stayed at dylans and Dylans was both. We us CLs for cheapies and have stayed on some extremely overpriced overrated sites just because they are in a tourist area.
I personaly think that motorhomes in town centre car parks looks sort of :Sad:

Its a bit like having a big 4x4 and nether venturing out of your city.

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[scotjimland]

we encountered bad motorhome owners last summer who emptied their waste water on the car park , ran a generator for power which does annoy local people when it is silent ( did cause complaints to the landowner )and left lots of rubbish on the floor behind them ( maybe the council bins 10 ft from them was to far away , these people will destroy nice spots and do not deserve to stay anywhere, we have invested a lot of money in large solar panels , decent batteries , amperor unit for tv, and a small inverter just for my better halfs hairdryer and straightners , works great is silent and respects the enviroment we all love to enjoy

How do you get rid of grey and black waste at a car park and get fresh water.?

What size of solar array do you have, you mentioned in a previous post that you get 5- 20A in winter.. and up to 30A in summer.

 

[Douglas]

Slightly off subject

There seems to be a great divide between wild campers (WC) and non (WC). Oh! I I'm enjoying this.

It seems to be that the non (WC) seem to believe the (WC) empty the wc in non wc places. Of course this does happen on occasions and from what I have seen its the most unexpected people that do it ie the French and the Germans but from what I have seen it is very rare, I can honestly say that in 5 years of (WC) I have never seen a English (WC) empty a wc in a unsuitable wc place.

Of course the UK is not really a (WC) country, I think this stems from problems with gypsys that the non initiated attach to us. (WC) and non (WC) that it. So the non (WC) can be forgiven for the lack of knowledge.

Now if you take your MH to the continent you will find a whole different attitude to non (WC) and WC alike. it varies from country to country, on the one hand France positively makes you welcome by providing Multiple thousands of Aires where you can have free water and free electricity and a place to empty your wc.

The rest of the country's I visit are not as good France but I can tell you that I and no body else that I personally know has ever had to empty their wc in a place that the locals would disapprove of.

Suitable places to empty the wc can always be found

Oh! yes the water, well its very much the same, it can always be found with the blessing of the locals, I even know one place were the local supermarket leaves a hose out just for the (WC) to use, when you get 60 or 70 (WC) into you shop every day a little water is nothing.

So you ask, where do we/I empty the wc, well I'm not going to tell you, go and find out for yourself but until you have, don't suggest something you know nothing about.

Doug

 

[haganap]

So you ask, where do we/I empty the wc, well I'm not going to tell you, go and find out for yourself but until you have, don't suggest something you know nothing about.

Doug

sorry, I missed the bit that someone was suggesting?

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[scotjimland]

There seems to be a great divide between wild campers (WC) and non (WC). Oh! I I'm enjoying this.

I have no objection to true wild camping, it's the best ..however ..
My question was directed at the car parker... not wild campers in general.

When abroad I use a mix of aires, municipals and free places , so I am well informed on the practices of how to get rid of waste .. but I wish people would stop referring to car parks as wild camping.. call it 'free parking' or 'pay parking' but not wild camping.

Free parkers are getting motorhomers a bad reputation, especially in resorts where some park up for days on end on the prom.. no wonder 'No Motorhomes' signs are springing up all over the place..

There are thousands of good CLs, and small private sites, many at very reasonable prices, but many are struggling to stay open due to lack of use.. we are presently using one that costs £8 per night, 16A electric, water and grey dumping on pitch .. I calculated that we use around £4 - £5 per day electric .. if we were 'wild camping' we would use a lot more in LPG .. plus running a genny .. and before anyone says 'solar' panel , there is no way solar energy could supply our needs at this time of year.. In summer , yes, and we have gone for several weeks in France without EHU, solar or running the genny ..

If you know of a really true wild camping spot then it follows you won't want to share the GPS coordinates. otherwise it would soon be overrun with vans and would then become truly WILD.. in the worst sense..

Long life the freedom to wild camp.. but not to free load on car parks; park overnight, ok, ... camp .. No

 

[JJ]

I have noticed in my life there are really great people, good people, average people, awful people and the down right disgraceful people. Another thing I have noticed is that this is true across the board. So I try not to judge "wild campers, free parkers, site goers, site owners or car park owners" depending on their life styles/choices group. There are good and bad amongst all of us. One exception... Man Utd supporters... actually I even know a couple of nice ones in that disgraceful group of sad winners!

 

[scotjimland]

I have noticed in my life there are really great people, good people, average people, awful people and the down right disgraceful people. Another thing I have noticed is that this is true across the board. So I try not to judge "wild campers, free parkers, site goers, site owners or car park owners" depending on their life styles/choices group.

I agree with your sentiments, but however we try not to, we all judge. If I recall correctly you had were irate when a fellow wild camper ran a genny. I'm not being judgemental, but none of us are immune to judging or making our feelings known.. it's human nature.
I try to 'live and let live' and if I don't like my neighbour for whatever reason, I would rather move on than have a confrontation .. it's just not worth the agro to do otherwise.

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[Losos]

Not using camp sites is one of the reasons that I spend most of my time out of the UK, I would rather do as I am doing now, soaking up the sunshine, wildcamping on Tenerife thousands of miles away from cold, wet, windy and problematic UK. Doug

Just as a matter of interest Doug, how do find 'wildcamping' in Germany ? that is assuming you've done it in Germany !

Apologies if this is taking the thread off topic, when Doug replies I promise tor return to said topic

 

[Douglas]

Just as a matter of interest Doug, how do find 'wildcamping' in Germany ? that is assuming you've done it in Germany !

Apologies if this is taking the thread off topic, when Doug replies I promise tor return to said topic

When we return to the south as winter approaches the UK, we try to go a different way each time, the last time we went;- France, Belgium, Germany, France, Spain and Portugal.

It was the Rhine and Mosel that we visited in Germany and we used designated car parks for "campingcars" there are plenty of them, even ordinary car parks if you use a little common sense and I'll tell you a secret if you keep it to yourself!!! to empty the wc we found Camp sites who let us empty FOC, all except one that is, were we had to pay a few Euros.

The Rhine was very picturesque if a little noisy due to continual passing of trains both sides of the river and unfortunately we were a little late in the year and did not have the best of weather so we may do it again sometime, I recommend it.

Doug...

 

[Mark&Sue]

Ahaaaaaa, so you do dump black in a site! So, all very good if the site owner doesn't have to pay for it but unfortunately most in this country do. So you should understand why, when you say that sites are a "Rip Off" that site owners object to your comments. I know that the site that we are on has to pay to have black waste removed.

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[dylan]

We pay £90 and I think plus VAT to have our black tank emptied. All adds up !

 

[Parcverger]

.. I calculated that we use around £4 - £5 per day electric ..
Long life the freedom to wild camp.. but not to free load on car parks; park overnight, ok, ... camp .. No

Interesting calculation - we guessed the likely electric usage in our first year at 3 Euros per night, and were out of pocket, so we went to 4 Euros in year two. We were then able to do detailed figures and it worked out at 4.50 Euros per night, which is our charge this (our third) year for 16A. The fact is that that is the actual cost of electricity per night, and does not take into account the cost of upgrading the electricity supply here to 16A, which was 14,000 Euros!

This is the sort of cost overlooked by those who see site owners as rip-off merchants! Just work out how long it takes to recover just that cost, let alone the cost of putting in hard standings, water supplies and waste water disposal,and taking the electricity supplies to the pitches. We're providing new lawned pitches this year, all with 16A electric, and the cost of the electric cabling to 22 pitches is expensive to say the least.

To provide a good quality site for our visitors this sort of provision is essential, but please do not question why site fees have to be realistic.

Bob and Di

 

[scotjimland]

Interesting calculation - we guessed the likely electric usage in our first year at 3 Euros per night, and were out of pocket, so we went to 4 Euros in year two. We were then able to do detailed figures and it worked out at 4.50 Euros per night, which is our charge this (our third) year for 16A. The fact is that that is the actual cost of electricity per night, and does not take into account the cost of upgrading the electricity supply here to 16A, which was 14,000 Euros!

i

Hi Bob

I'm not sure of the UK commercial electric rates, so I based my calculation on 10p per kw.
Having recently fitted a power meter I know exactly what we use and it averages out at 50kw per day ..
This will be much lower when the milder weather starts as much of the consumption is heating the RV.

A 16A supply has the potential to supply 88kw per 24hrs. ..


Jim

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[robinmclaren]

reply

hi

2 x 180 w panels to 2 x leisure batteries on 1 x charger regulator and a monitor / split charger to main van battery
convert as much equiptment as possible to directly run from 12v as inverters are highly inefficent and you would have to be very unlucky to run out of power as we never have , i just cannot understand anyone wanting to stay at a silent scenic place and run a generator as seems to defeat the object of camping , motorhomes are a posh way of doing this with fredom to go where and when you want .
people keep asking about waste am i missing something as our tank has never yet been so full i cannot empty when home or when on a site , the caravan clubs recognise motorhomes and do a stop off facility to empty waste, fill with water and use their site for 4 hours at a reasonable charge if required

How do you get rid of grey and black waste at a car park and get fresh water.?

What size of solar array do you have, you mentioned in a previous post that you get 5- 20A in winter.. and up to 30A in summer.

 

[Douglas]

Ahaaaaaa, so you do dump black in a site! So, all very good if the site owner doesn't have to pay for it but unfortunately most in this country do. So you should understand why, when you say that sites are a "Rip Off" that site owners object to your comments. I know that the site that we are on has to pay to have black waste removed.

Yes Mark, I sometimes dump on a site, but you missed the point, NOT IN THE UK, the rippof comment still stands. If you want to take comments out of context do so but it fools no one that reads the history.

Doug..

 

[eddie]

I think that I will pull out of this thread!

We run a great campsite that has won numerous awards, we charge £13.00 a night and I don't contribute to this site to be called a ripp off merchant by some numpty!

Life is all about choice! Doug, you choose not to use campsites, and I suspect, given your comments that if you did come to Cornish Farm we would choose not to allow you to stay! as we would hate to rip you off. We do have standards after all.

This way everyone gets what they want.

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[olley]

Hi people run campsites as a business, not as a favour to campers, if they can charge £50 per night and people are prepared pay it that's good business not a ripoff.

In business you charge what you think your target market can afford, get it wrong and you go bust. No bailouts from the government for us small businesses. :Angry:

Olley

 

[American Dream]

I think that I will pull out of this thread!

We run a great campsite that has won numerous awards, we charge £13.00 a night and I don't contribute to this site to be called a ripp off merchant by some numpty!

Life is all about choice! Doug, you choose not to use campsites, and I suspect, given your comments that if you did come to Cornish Farm we would choose not to allow you to stay! as we would hate to rip you off. We do have standards after all.

This way everyone gets what they want.

Well I wouldn't call £13 a night a rip-off.

So watch out...If you see a Dodge heading your way......

 

[jean and robert]

Hi,
There is a possible middle way here which my keep everyone happy. Many camp sites in France have aires just outside the gate where you can fill and empty and often stay overnight. These services are either free or a charge of a few Euros is made. Yes many of these are municipal sites but not all. Last year we stayed on such an aire at St Vast La Hougue. The aire is adjacent to a commercial site and is on hard standing with marked pitches, and waste/water empty and fill. The owner comes round at end each day and collects 7€ for 24 hrs stay. No great admin involved just gives out a pre-printed ticket and a few friendly words. If you prefer campsite facilities then he runs two systems on the site. Motorhomes can stay between 6.00pm and 10.00 am for 11€ or book on as normal for around 18€/night.
So how about this sort of approach here.

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[olley]

Hi as far as I know of the two big clubs only the 3C's allow you to dump for a few pounds and go, the CC reckons it encourages wildcamping so won't allow it.

Olley

 

[Douglas]

Well I wouldn't call £13 a night a rip-off.

And neither did I, what I did say was :-
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We have only ever been in 2 camp sites, one was Crystal Palace, London and the other Formby and they were the same. The want to give you as little as possible and charge you as much as possible (Rippoffs) and you get a mouthfull if you complain.

That is why we wild camp 100% and 100% out of the UK.
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There is no mention about anyone in Cornwall. To the guy in Cornwall I appologise if you thought I was referring to you you can clearly see that I was not, however the two site that I did referrer too did ripoff me off, they charged more for parking over night than it would have cost me for bed&breakfast for the night.

Doug..

 

[haganap]

And neither did I, what I did say was :-
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We have only ever been in 2 camp sites, one was Crystal Palace, London and the other Formby and they were the same. The want to give you as little as possible and charge you as much as possible (Rippoffs) and you get a mouthfull if you complain.

That is why we wild camp 100% and 100% out of the UK.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

There is no mention about anyone in Cornwall. To the guy in Cornwall I appologise if you thought I was referring to you you can clearly see that I was not, however the two site that I did referrer too did ripoff me off, they charged more for parking over night than it would have cost me for bed&breakfast for the night.

Doug..

Well i actually stayed at the CC site at Crystal palace a couple of years ago. For a few pounds I could get right in to London on the tube and with only a little walk from the site I was on the bus. Cant remember what I paid but for two children and me it was no more than a score per night. For that money I had full electric hook up and all my own needs on board + of course excellent tv reception.
I hardly think that being so close to London for such asmall ammount of money is a ripp off, not when you consider how much a hotel or b&B would be.

I wild camp too, I use sites also, personally I like the best of both worlds. IMO if everyone wild camped it wouldn't be long before some sites really struggled. And if more continue to wild camp in completely innapropriate places, it wont be long before we are all frowned upon whereever we go.
As for France? having been a regular traveller and motorhomer there, UK sites could learn a thing or two. But even if only costed a £5 to dump and charge electric for a couple of hours, there would still be those unwilling to pay it on some sort of free life campaign.

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[GJH]

Well i actually stayed at the CC site at Crystal palace a couple of years ago. For a few pounds I could get right in to London on the tube and with only a little walk from the site I was on the bus. Cant remember what I paid but for two children and me it was no more than a score per night. For that money I had full electric hook up and all my own needs on board + of course excellent tv reception.
I hardly think that being so close to London for such asmall ammount of money is a ripp off, not when you consider how much a hotel or b&B would be.
(snip)

I agree. We stayed for 6 nights at Abbey Wood (the other CC London site) last month.

For two of us it cost just over £80 for the pitch with EHU and excellent, clean shower etc facilities. Travel into London was £6.30 each per day for a travelcard which meant we could use any train, tube, bus or DLR within Zones 1 to 4 or £4.70 each for a simple return to Charing Cross - just under £60 in total for the two of us for 5 days as we only needed the return on the final day.

That compares very favourably to the cost of a central London Premier Travel Inn (£114 or £119 per night depending on which hotel you choose).

Graham

 

[Caztur]

Don't know where Doug finds his cheap B & Bs.

I needed to go to Cornwall in January and the cheapest I could find in the area we had to go was £72 per night - for 3 of us sharing a room. If I'd taken the caravan it would have been less than a third of that on any site (OK so I'd have had to buy the food for the euphemistically titled "Continental Breakfast".)

 

[Jim]

I must admit that we have stopped quite a bit at Crystal Palace. Don't tell the CC but I actually parked up there and worked in the city for a couple of weeks using the campsite as a base. (they don't like that ) I cannot remember what I paid, but I remember that the Travel inn at Tower Bridge wanted to charge me £110 a night, no breakfast. So I just took the MH in and at just regular campsite rates It was a great deal.

Considering the cost of accommodation in London, Crystal Palace has to be one of the best value for money sites that they operate. In that location they must pay an absolute fortune in business rates.

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[Douglas]

Don't know where Doug finds his cheap B & Bs.

I needed to go to Cornwall in January and the cheapest I could find in the area we had to go was £72 per night - for 3 of us sharing a room. If I'd taken the caravan it would have been less than a third of that on any site (OK so I'd have had to buy the food for the euphemistically titled "Continental Breakfast".)

Try the youth hostels in central London!!!

Doug...

 

[GJH]

(snip)Considering the cost of accommodation in London, Crystal Palace has to be one of the best value for money sites that they operate. In that location they must pay an absolute fortune in business rates.

Bit off topic but they shouldn't pay any more in business rates than they would in any other area of the country.

The Thatcher government introduced the Universal Business Rate (now called, I think, National Non-Domestic Rates) for that very reason after large companies complained that they couldn't control their costs when different councils set different rates.

Graham

 

[Jim]

Bit off topic but they shouldn't pay any more in business rates than they would in any other area of the country.

The Thatcher government introduced the Universal Business Rate (now called, I think, National Non-Domestic Rates) for that very reason after large companies complained that they couldn't control their costs when different councils set different rates.

Graham

I assumed it was worked out on property values, I would have thought you would pay more in rates for a corner shop in Knightsbridge than in a village say in a remote part of Shropshire. I am only guessing that they would pay more than a campsite in a remote rural area. My guesses are normally way off

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