Another lithium battery question (1 Viewer)

[funflair]

That is because your fridge doesn't have an S+ connection & Martin wired it to the D+ using a diode to isolate it from the alternator D+.

 

[Jo662]

I have just ordered a single 320 AH from Eco Tree. I called up and they gave me a 10% discount code MHF21 so it was £1529.10 in total for 320 AH. The Kon Tiki battery box is 750 length by 300 wide by 280 high. The eco tree 320AH easily fits in here and is much lighter. Will report back when they are fitted at the weekend.

Can you give us an update on your lithium experience please?

 

[ChrisL]

Most days we get 150w easily and in full sun we get 350-400w from the solar setup.

Is that watt hours or peak output? I'm asking as i'm still trying to understand exactly what i'm getting from my 300 watts of panels and Victron 100/20 on a nice sunny day i got 430Wh on cloudier days less, P max seems to be around 137W

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[marchie]

Is that watt hours or peak output? I'm asking as i'm still trying to understand exactly what i'm getting from my 300 watts of panels and Victron 100/20 on a nice sunny day i got 430Wh on cloudier days less, P max seems to be around 137W

We got 470Wh in mid July's blazing sunshine from a 180w Solar Panel connected to a 120Ah Lithium Battery when off grid. We have had trouble using all the available power from the Lithium, so we've had quite a few days where 150-180Wh has been produced, with the rest of the day spent with the Battery in gentle Float or Absorption mode. I expect the Leisure Battery to work harder in the Scottish Autumn with Solar Panel [17:30] now sleeping and the need for lights, phone chargers etc starting much earlier in the evening

Steve

 

[Raul]

Out of 600w panels, best I got was 3,1kwh in June this year in Kent. Today, same panels, in Bucks, I got 0,87kwh. In summer we have plenty for cooking and hot water, and in winter I barely make ends meet. I added the 230w portable from storage this evening, so tomorrow will be a tad more. We still 60-62% charged in the morning, out of 400ah Li.

 

[Garwillis]

Hi guys loads of great info here .. so can I just simply remove my 2 x 160ah Agm batteries and replace them with 2 x100ah lithium batts ?

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[Raul]

Hi,
Not quite, you need compatible charging sources. Anything adjustable to LiFePo4 then will work by re setting the values from lead to Li.

 

[SSILVO]

Are the Sterling lithium batteries any good? The BMS built in to those includes bluetooth to provide shunt/BMV type information.

I recommend Sterling , and are I believe the only ones covered for use on the road ( don't quote me on that,talk to vanbitz) I have 260 ah of sterling batteries and not had an problem at all.

 

[Lenny HB]

Some suppliers say they are a drop in replacement but you will never get the best out of them.

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[Chuns]

I just wanted to put in a word for Alpha Batteries from whom I bought my Roadpro Lithium. The battery I bought comes with an app so you can check the state of the battery and the individual cells ( maybe others do too). Outstanding service, excellent product. Very customer focussed.

 

[Garry - June]

Totally depends on the charging parameters.... KS Energy batteries for instance are perfectly matched to Schaudt Elektroblocks ... i know van owners who have done this and have had no problems at all..

 

[Lenny HB]

Totally depends on the charging parameters.... KS Energy batteries for instance are perfectly matched to Schaudt Elektroblocks ... i know van owners who have done this and have had no problems at all..

Sorry don't agree, no way is a 16 hour absorbtion phase suitable for a Lithium battery.

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[Garry - June]

Sorry don't agree, no way is a 16 hour absorbtion phase suitable for a Lithium battery.

That's Fine...as i say i haven't done this but know owners who have and they are performing excellently with no issues at all.... having read the blurb on the KS website they even explain all the workings of doing exactly this...

Our "Super Series" lithium leisure batteries are genuinely smart and incorporate Bluetooth and low temperature charge protection as standard.

Our batteries have been designed to be a like for like no-nonsense drop in replacement for older AGM, GEL or lead-acid deep cycle leisure batteries. There is no requirement for you to change or modify your existing mains or solar chargers and our batteries can be charged directly from the vehicles existing standard fixed voltage 14.4V alternator. They "abuse proof" in that they incorporate over charge/under charge/over temperature and under temperature protection.

 

[Lenny HB]

That's Fine...as i say i haven't done this but know owners who have and they are performing excellently with no issues at all.... having read the blurb on the KS website they even explain all the workings of doing exactly this...

Our "Super Series" lithium leisure batteries are genuinely smart and incorporate Bluetooth and low temperature charge protection as standard.

Our batteries have been designed to be a like for like no-nonsense drop in replacement for older AGM, GEL or lead-acid deep cycle leisure batteries. There is no requirement for you to change or modify your existing mains or solar chargers and our batteries can be charged directly from the vehicles existing standard fixed voltage 14.4V alternator. They "abuse proof" in that they incorporate over charge/under charge/over temperature and under temperature protection.

Sorry don't agree, you will never get the best out of them in performance or life if you don't charge them correctly.
Drop in replacement is salesman BS IMO.

 

[Raul]

How do you know they perform excellently? LiFePo4 is a well known chemistry by now, and charging parameters have not changed. In fact if anything have gone the conservative route based on results of few years. From 3,65v we are now at 3,55v for long life.
You need some expensive equipment to perform the necessary tests that can give you meaningful results to establish if they still perform as new or not. By normal use you will not notice anything, until bms disconnects completely. The internal resistance has changed since new, and they are not matched cells anymore. Specially if the pack has been made of several parallel cells.

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[Garry - June]

Sorry don't agree, you will never get the best out of them in performance or life if you don't charge them correctly.
Drop in replacement is salesman BS IMO.

But don't forget these are working in tandem with a Lithium set Solar MPPT controller.... yes it wont be at optimum charge but with solar and possibly a B2B as well it covers pretty much all bases.... and if the on board charger is not charging to full capacity that if anything is a good thing in my opinion as keeping Lithiums at full charge is not a good thing.. finally these batteries from KS carry a 7 yr guarantee... so if anything dire should occur you are covered..

 

[Garry - June]

And how can it be "salesman bullshit".. when they are covered by a guarantee and its all in their technical instructions ... if you are following the "bullshit" as you call it and a failure should occur then they will have to replace them... unless of course you think the guarantee is bullshit too.... in which case they wont be in business long will they..

 

[Tombola]

And how can it be "salesman bullshit".. when they are covered by a guarantee and its all in their technical instructions ... if you are following the "bullshit" as you call it and a failure should occur then they will have to replace them... unless of course you think the guarantee is bullshit too.... in which case they wont be in business long will they..

hey up ! dont get your knickers twisted on such a lovely day , its only advice and good advice too.

what they (the battery suppliers) mean is you "potentially" dont have to change your controllers to another controller. SO yes in theory they are "drop in" they all say that.
What they dont say, is you will have to change the settings on your "controllers/chargers" and make sure they have settings required for lithium. (to get the best out of them and decent longevity)
If they dont have the correct profiles / settings, they are not just "drop in" sure they may work, but the life and performance will be shorter.

So yeah sales BulS**T is about right

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[Garry - June]

I find all this hilarious.... people need to think about what exactly they are installing Lithiums for... as for myself they are for sitting as long as possible off grid... as such they will be predominantly charged via solar, hopefully with a MPPT lithium enabled one ... the on board charger in my mind is just a trickle charger for when on EHU...the KS batteries are perfectly matched charging voltages for an EBL .... if you are not planning long periods when sitting off grid on solar alone then Lithiums are completely pointless unless you're doing it to save weight.. which again is pretty crazy.. its interesting that KS even argue against fitting a B2B because of the additional problems that can throw up and their belief that they are often mostly unnecessary to start with.... but again if sitting off grid for long periods i wouldn't want to be constantly running my engine anyway... its funny how there are so many experts on this subject except the people who actually make a business selling them..

 

[Garry - June]

This is an interesting read....

https://www.ksenergy.co.uk/lithium-leisure-battery-drop-in-replacement

But hey if you think they don't know what they are talking about then fine...

 

[Tombola]

when are you starting to work for KS then

you seem to be getting a little upset , dunno why you could just ignore the posts, but hey ho.

I do agree on your point about using the ehu as a trickle etc for sitting on the drive if required, but then again we have almost 600 of solar and 400 lithium (KS ONES)so hardly ever use that.
I tend to work it the other way, I have a socket connected to my kitchen that when my van is on my drive its plugged in and powers my home freezer and fridge aswell as my microwave and couple of other bits. A penny saved and all that !

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[Garry - June]

No not getting upset at all...just putting a different side to the story and highlighting what they are saying on the subject themselves ...I don't even have their stuff installed myself but know members of our owners club who have.... as I say just a different opinion..

 

[WildBunch]

Hi.
I have a 120 Ah Eco Tree fitted Victron (shunt, B2B, Mppt) system, So far very happy. Massive payload gain.
I have pulled the fuse to disable the ELB 30 charging on hook up. I have not needed hook up so far since the changed to Li. We only have a 150 watt solar panel but that seems fine.
I have been experimenting with running the Jumbo Dommetic fridge on battery. I do this manually by waiting till I have 80/85% of charge, then change from auto to battery on the fridge panel. The current draw is 13 Amps approx. On a good day we can get 4/5 amps from the solar, thus the net current draw is 6/7 amps. I keep a eye on the sun / time & return to Auto by late afternoon to allow the solar to top up the battery. I have managed up to 5 hours like this. If we are moving site / travelling you can get longer on battery as the B2B will give more than enough power to run fridge & charge the battery. I have a bit of paper marked "Fridge on Battery ! " to remind me to change back to auto. The reasons we can do this is because the smart shunt lets you accurately monitor the battery state of charge & the fast charge you can get from MPPT & the easy charging of Li batteries. Whilst I appreciate that this is a manual system, the main advantage is that you can use the stored & solar energy long before the battery is up to 100% thus saving gas.

 

[Tombola]

I was surprised when I monitor my big american style fridge freezer at home, runniing from my van inverter, it doesnt seem to pull any more than the Fridge Freezer in the van (dometic)

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[Raul]

That’s because the insulation of the fridge, and efficiency of the compressor.