Another Gaslow question.....

[acropolis22]

My dealer fitted a single Gaslow bottle. The hose from the filling point has been connected using some sort of white paste. Is this necessary? I understood this connection sealed by a rubber washer that comes with the hose. Photo attached.

 

[Manic]

Those connections are brass on brass

 

[acropolis22]

Those connections are brass on brass

You'll have to help me. The implication being?

 

[Gerryatric71]

The white paste is PTFE tape to seal the joint in the fitting. The gas tape as opposed to plumbing one comes in a yellow holder but how you tell when thats removed I dont know.

 

[Phill D]

gas ptfe tape is yellow not white and that looks like it is some sort of sealant.

that looks as if its been applied after the joint was tightened.

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[acropolis22]

gas ptfe tape is yellow not white and that looks like it is some sort of sealant.

that looks as if its been applied after the joint was tightened.

Yeah, pretty sure it's not tape. So are we saying that the joint should seal without any extra help, but someone decided to play safe?

 

[Gerryatric71]

It appears it can be yellow or white.

 

[Basildog]

Pretty typical of the so called professional installers unfortunately, the standards of work we are seeing more and more of take some believing .
No sealants or PTFE tape needed on those joints , probably won’t do any harm unless they have lathered it on , then it will block the fill stop valve.
We see so many compression fittings that people are using sealants on , actually more likely to cause a leak than help seal it as you can’t tighten the joints correctly .

 

[Basildog]

It appears it can be yellow or white.

We have white Gas PTFE tape here too

 

[acropolis22]

Pretty typical of the so called professional installers unfortunately, the standards of work we are seeing more and more of take some believing .
No sealants or PTFE tape needed on those joints , probably won’t do any harm unless they have lathered it on , then it will block the fill stop valve.
We see so many compression fittings that people are using sealants on , actually more likely to cause a leak than help seal it as you can’t tighten the joints correctly .

Brilliant, thanks for the confirmation.

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[Basildog]

gas ptfe tape is yellow not white and that looks like it is some sort of sealant.

that looks as if its been applied after the joint was tightened.

White Gas PTFE tape is actually very common, that looks more like sealant.

 

[Manic]

You'll have to help me. The implication being?

These fitting have no rubber in them, what’s showing is a sealant paste that’s been put on the threads and possibly the the seating taper.

 

[acropolis22]

But isn't that taper supposed to make the seal?

 

[autorouter]

The white paste is PTFE tape to seal the joint in the fitting. The gas tape as opposed to plumbing one comes in a yellow holder but how you tell when thats removed I dont know.

I don't know the details, but gas tape is thicker.

 

[Basildog]

But isn't that taper supposed to make the seal?

Yes that’s correct.

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[BillyKontiki]

These fittings are precision machined face to face fittings, and are designed to achieve a gas tight joint without the use of tape or paste when new, and on your photo the area where the material is applied would have no bearing on the gas tightness of the fitting.
If gas tightness can’t be achieved without paste or tape it should be replaced.
As said above the improper use of paste or tape could affect regulators or filters.
Hope this helps.

 

[mushy]

This guy may be able to explain it.

 

[acropolis22]

Interesting. I notice he used Lokseal on the threads, whereas the consensus seems to be it's not necessary. Belt and braces?

 

[Manic]

Interesting. I notice he used Lokseal on the threads, whereas the consensus seems to be it's not necessary. Belt and braces?

I can see a problem that using lock seal you wouldn’t know if the joint on the taper was working correctly but I obviously knows what he is doing.

 

[acropolis22]

I can see a problem that using lock seal you wouldn’t know if the joint on the taper was working correctly but I obviously knows what he is doing.

Yeah, I think I'd rather not use it myself.

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[peterc10]

My dealer fitted a single Gaslow bottle. The hose from the filling point has been connected using some sort of white paste. Is this necessary? I understood this connection sealed by a rubber washer that comes with the hose. Photo attached.

I think you are confusing the permanent fixing of a entry pipe to fill the bottle with the fixing of the pigtail pipe to allow the take off of gas to the regulator in a system using Calor type hired bottles. The latter does not have a filling pipe. However, it does have a rubber "POL" type connection on the pigtail, i.e. the exit pipe between the bottle and the regulator. That connection is specifically designed to provide a temporary connection that can easily and safely be made and unmade by members of the public. That occurs every time the Calor bottle gets changed and ensures that it can be carried out by unqualified people.

The entry and exit pipes of a refillable bottle system are designed as a permanent joint within a sealed system and therefore use different types of brass fittings designed, as any permanent LPG system should be, to be changed only by people who know what they are doing. That applies to both the inlet pipe, which the Calor system does not have, and the exit pipe to the regulator, which both systems have. In a refillable system neither needs to be taken apart for the system to work.

 

[acropolis22]

I think you are confusing the permanent fixing of a entry pipe to fill the bottle with the fixing of the pigtail pipe to allow the take off of gas to the regulator in a system using Calor type hired bottles. The latter does not have a filling pipe. However, it does have a rubber "POL" type connection on the pigtail, i.e. the exit pipe between the bottle and the regulator. That connection is specifically designed to provide a temporary connection that can easily and safely be made and unmade by members of the public. That occurs every time the Calor bottle gets changed and ensures that it can be carried out by unqualified people.

The entry and exit pipes of a refillable bottle system are designed as a permanent joint within a sealed system and therefore use different types of brass fittings designed, as any permanent LPG system should be, to be changed only by people who know what they are doing. That applies to both the inlet pipe, which the Calor system does not have, and the exit pipe to the regulator, which both systems have. In a refillable system neither needs to be taken apart for the system to work.

Well, we've moved on a bit since my original post. It has been pointed out to me that I was wrong in thinking that there were washers involved. The consensus seems to be that the filler hose connects to the cylinder using a machine taper which will seal by compression without the use of any paste. (We should perhaps ignore the Calor bottle issue since that was never part of my thinking, although I see what you are saying.)

The bottom line is that you are saying that all the connections should use paste since they will never need to be taken apart? But all the hose connections seem to have been designed to work without paste. Either via a machined taper seal, or via the use of the washers supplied by Gaslow. Not sure if I'm getting more or less confused.......

 

[pete4x4]

My bottles were installed by Gaslow when I visited them to exchange the cylinders after 10 years use, (its now 15 years I believe) They installed all the hoses with a sealing paste and 3 years on no issues.

 

[acropolis22]

My bottles were installed by Gaslow when I visited them to exchange the cylinders after 10 years use, (its now 15 years I believe) They installed all the hoses with a sealing paste and 3 years on no issues.

That's interesting. I've asked the question of Gaslow and here is their emailed answer:

"Although you can certainly fit them without any sealing compound, some dealers like to use a paste just for peace of mind which is absolutely fine. As long as it isn't PTFE tape the installation is fine".

No idea why they don't like PTFE, but it certainly seems the paste is optional, but doesn't hurt as long as you don't splash it everywhere. (According to several earlier posts.)

Many thanks to all who took the trouble to respond to my question. I think I can say I am now enlightened.

 

[Basildog]

Interesting. I notice he used Lokseal on the threads, whereas the consensus seems to be it's not necessary. Belt and braces?

Completely useless applying sealants on those threads , he’s better off doing it properly as per the manufacturers instructions.
We fit thousands every year

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[peterc10]

The bottom line is that you are saying that all the connections should use paste since they will never need to be taken apart? But all the hose connections seem to have been designed to work without paste. Either via a machined taper seal, or via the use of the washers supplied by Gaslow. Not sure if I'm getting more or less confused.......

As I said, like lots of joints in gas pipelines, they are designed to be taken apart by people who know what they are doing. I have not used the word "qualified" by the way because that is not required by law for motorhome gas fittings (unless used for commercial or hire purposes).

I didn't mention paste at all. Lots of people, including me, do use a smear of non-setting paste as a belt and braces option. My view is that brass is relatively soft ( that is why it makes a good seal) and just because it was made with a machined surface, it does not mean that it has still got one by the time I get to fit it. That does not stop the joints being taken apart and remade.

The paste I use is a small tube of red "Calortight" which I inherited from my Dad when he died over 30 years ago. That is still squeezable now and always seems to get everywhere whenever I use it, which is not very often. Therefore I consider it is still non-setting.

As to whether or not I know what I am doing, my opinion usually differs from that of my wife's.

As for PTFE tape, the usual white stuff is used for water only. However you can get specific PTFE tape that is suitable for Gas nowadays, which is coloured yellow.

 

[acropolis22]

The paste I use is a small tube of red "Calortight" which I inherited from my Dad when he died over 30 years ago. That is still squeezable now and always seems to get everywhere whenever I use it, which is not very often. Therefore I consider it is still non-setting.

Definitely!

As to whether or not I know what I am doing, my opinion usually differs from that of my wife's.

I find it best not to ask my wife's opinion.......

Many thanks for your help.

 

[mushy]

I did read somewhere that the reason for not using tape was that small fragments could detach on fitting and get stuck in the fittings or filters.

 

[acropolis22]

I did read somewhere that the reason for not using tape was that small fragments could detach on fitting and get stuck in the fittings or filters.

Sounds sensible.

 

[peterc10]

Definitely!

I find it best not to ask my wife's opinion.......

My wife does not wait to be asked ........................