Aires e-petition (1 Viewer)

[GJH]

All signed, let's hope our voices are heard on this one, its not only good for motorhomers [HI]but also good for the local economy.[/HI]

This is a statement which is often made but where is the evidence? Many motorhomers (us included) enjoy using local shops but, as people have pointed out on similar threads in the past, many stock up with food before leaving home and then just use supermarkets if they need to top up.

The cost of setting up and maintaining an "aire" also has to be taken into account, as does potential loss of revenue when a car park is converted.

Speaking from experience, the uncertainty over the economic and social value of "aires" is the major factor in preventing local authorities from taking action. The only way to overcome that is to provide hard evidence that an "aire" would be "good for the local economy.

 

[Bailey58]

This is a statement which is often made but where is the evidence? Many motorhomers (us included) enjoy using local shops but, as people have pointed out on similar threads in the past, many stock up with food before leaving home and then just use supermarkets if they need to top up.

The cost of setting up and maintaining an "aire" also has to be taken into account, as does potential loss of revenue when a car park is converted.

Speaking from experience, the uncertainty over the economic and social value of "aires" is the major factor in preventing local authorities from taking action. The only way to overcome that is to provide hard evidence that an "aire" would be "good for the local economy.

Haven't read this thread since my earlier post so it may have been said but we take 3 days of meals with us and then shop as we need the rest of the time. Often that does mean going to a supermarket because it's the only place you can park.

When we can get into town by bus or even train in ten minutes as we did from Delamere Forest into Chester and recently into Skipton from somewhere? we quite happily shop locally for food and other bits we might need. If there was somewhere on the edge of town for even a few hours stopover never mind an overnight then these places would benefit enormously. Can't see what the problem is.

 

[icantremember]

I have read right through this thread and have to agree with some that it will go nowhere in is’s present form partly for lack of signatures and lack of outside interest.


It matters not a jot how many motorhomers sign up, there would be nowhere near sufficient signatures to sway any authorities and furthermore would be too one sided, most of the uninitiated know little or nothing of our needs and wants.


Some on here have spoken of the financial advantages to the “local economy”.......I would suggest, having been in the retail market for many years, it is these retailers and small businesses such as pubs, fuel stations, farm shops and even village halls that need enlightening to the benefits to them and to get them onside to boost signatures and get them wanting such facilities.


OK that’s my opinion now how to go about it ........any other views?

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[motorhomer]

I have signed it but there were only 239 signatures, so something has to change dramatically for this to have any effect. It appears that only a very small minority of those even on this forum have signed, without support from "our own" there is no chance.

I think the case is much stronger than the petition argues, in my view it is so sad that to get real motorhome freedom you have to go to france or elsewhere. UK aires WOULD support local touring and hence the local economy, and maybe would reduce the number travelling to france etc for this reason.

 

[Ian37]

Done:thumb:

 

[GJH]

I have read right through this thread and have to agree with some that it will go nowhere in is’s present form partly for lack of signatures and lack of outside interest.


It matters not a jot how many motorhomers sign up, there would be nowhere near sufficient signatures to sway any authorities and furthermore would be too one sided, most of the uninitiated know little or nothing of our needs and wants.


Some on here have spoken of the financial advantages to the “local economy”.......I would suggest, having been in the retail market for many years, it is these retailers and small businesses such as pubs, fuel stations, farm shops and even village halls that need enlightening to the benefits to them and to get them onside to boost signatures and get them wanting such facilities.


OK that’s my opinion now how to go about it ........any other views?

That's certainly another positive approach, Brian. Unfortunately, getting people to take the time to contact chambers of commerce has proved just as difficult as getting them to contact local authorities.

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[Terry]

Also done

 

[knokinonabit]

Done. :thumb:

 

[spannermanwigan]

I have signed it but there were only 239 signatures, so something has to change dramatically for this to have any effect. It appears that only a very small minority of those even on this forum have signed, without support from "our own" there is no chance.

I think the case is much stronger than the petition argues, in my view it is so sad that to get real motorhome freedom you have to go to france or elsewhere. UK aires WOULD support local touring and hence the local economy, and maybe would reduce the number travelling to france etc for this reason.

At least thats over a hundred more than it had 2 days ago when Ollie
first posted it!!:thumb:
From Little acornsmighty oak trees GROW
Keep chippng away Funster :shout:make yourselves heard for once
Regards
Steve

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[Teasy2007]

Just completed the petition, 270 now!

Ginny

 

[icantremember]

That's certainly another positive approach, Brian. Unfortunately, getting people to take the time to contact chambers of commerce has proved just as difficult as getting them to contact local authorities.

That is very true Graham but if motorhomers were to use small businesses wherever they can, and I know these folk usually love a chat, that would be the time to put our case over.

All small business owners talk amongst themselves and many are members of their local Chamber of Trade whose job is to promote local trade.

I'm sure the majority of traders would be in favour if they thought it would lead to a regular increase in sales.

Although most of us would not have the need of an "aire" on our own doorstep, if we all got involved in our own location and put the word around and it were to take off we should all gain.

There again maybe it's a case of nimbyism!

 

[GJH]

That is very true Graham but if motorhomers were to use small businesses wherever they can, and I know these folk usually love a chat, that would be the time to put our case over.

All small business owners talk amongst themselves and many are members of their local Chamber of Trade whose job is to promote local trade.

I'm sure the majority of traders would be in favour if they thought it would lead to a regular increase in sales.

Although most of us would not have the need of an "aire" on our own doorstep, if we all got involved in our own location and put the word around and it were to take off we should all gain.

There again maybe it's a case of nimbyism!

I don't think it's nimbyism, Brian. Experience over the last few years has convinced me that the majority of motorhomers simply aren't interested in aires in this country unless provided for them by someone else's efforts.

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[spannermanwigan]

Just completed the petition, 270 now!

Ginny

doubled in two days,keep up the good work!:thumb:

regards
Steve

 

[spannermanwigan]

Bump.......Keep this one high up please.

Been made a sticky on the Dark Side,what about it Jim, its also running on wild camping

Regards
Steve

 

[spannermanwigan]

Found this on the thread on the dark side, perhaps food for thought!
hope you dont mind Jim

1187031 Posted: 19-01-2012, 11:26:04
Spacerunner

Age: 42
Joined: Mar 18, 2006
Posts: 5646
Thanked 1374 times in 1086 posts
MH: Chausson Welcome 85
Campsites
Gender:
Location: Hampshire

Status: Offline
I approached my local authority at Havant a couple of years ago on this subject.
I got a positive response from them saying they would take it into consideration when revamping Hayling Island beach area.

Guess what? We now have a thriving 'aire' on Hayling Island beach.

And......the Inn on the Beach told me, just last week, that they have seen a difference in their business due to the number of motorhomes using the 'aire'.

My advice is to harry your local authority until you get a result, they can only say yes or no. Its a far more direct method than the government's online system and you wont need 100000 people to join in either.

______________________________________________________________
"On all the oceans white caps flow,
You see no crosses row on row
But those who sleep beneath the sea,
Rest in peace for your country is free".

SI MINOR PLUS EST ERGO NIHIL SUNT OMNIA

Regards
Steve

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[oldfozzie]

UK Aires

Like many of you I have used many Aires in a variety of European countries; so I ask myself what do they actually comprise?

A few parking slots identified as reserved for motor homes,( cost minimal just one or 2 signs; that said knowing the way our public authorities throw money around that will cost). A simple facility to empty out (grey water and elsan) and a water point. These can be very easily provided and could even be pay as you go if you use the right kit, as many French villages do.

So I would guess it's more a case of needing a persuasion campaign to convince local authorities of the economic benefits that could realise rather than legislation to force them.

In the other part of my life I live on a narrow boat and we have the IWA as a lobbying organisation to get the message over; any suggestions how we motorhomers could achieve a similar effect.

 

[Destination Unknown]

Signed

Yep all signed up.

 

[scotjimland]

No doubt an economic case could be made, and no doubt many councils would be more than happy to encourage more visitors to stay overnight by providing an aire ..

As I see it, the major stumbling block, which no one has addressed, is how do you police it.. how do you stop it being abused / used by the travelling folk .. for at the end of the day they too need more places and you couldn't discriminate on racial grounds.. and make no mistake, they would use it and maybe stay there indefinitely ..

This happened to friends of ours with a CL. They are not there during the working day to police it .. One day they came home from work and found travellers on the site, plugged into the EHU and camp set up..

What can they do ? Well, not wanting a confrontation, they asked them to pay and they agreed, at the end of the week when we leave ... you can guess the outcome.. they stayed longer and never paid a penny .. So an unguarded aire may well end up being a gypsy site .. Guarding costs money..

In France the municipal police guard the aires and more importantly have the powers to move undesirables on.. I've seen it happen on a couple of aires.. few argue with a cop with a 9mm hanging on his waist .. Not so the British bobby who is powerless to 'move on' without a court order.. so it would be down to hiring private companies to patrol and guard..

Until this problem is resolved very few councils are willing to spend money and take the risk that instead of attracting visitors it attracts the gypsy. If that happened.. come election time they won't be re elected..

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[GJH]

A few parking slots identified as reserved for motor homes,

Most car parks in this country are designed for vehicles under 2 tonnes weight. Altering them to take heavier vehicles comes at a cost.

( cost minimal just one or 2 signs; that said knowing the way our public authorities throw money around that will cost).

In order to make the signs legal a new Traffic Regulation Order has to be made. In addition, planning permission for change of use (parking to habitation) may have to be put in place. The work involved comes at a cost.

A simple facility to empty out (grey water and elsan) and a water point. These can be very easily provided and could even be pay as you go if you use the right kit, as many French villages do.

Car parks will normally have drainage for surface water but many will not have facilities for grey water and most will have no foul drainage to take Elsan and no provision of drinking water. Putting in the necessary drainage and water pipes comes at a cost.

So I would guess it's more a case of needing a persuasion campaign to convince local authorities of the economic benefits that could realise rather than legislation to force them.

Yes - but the economic benefits have to take in the costs mentioned as above plus the running costs which Jim mentioned.

In the other part of my life I live on a narrow boat and we have the IWA as a lobbying organisation to get the message over; any suggestions how we motorhomers could achieve a similar effect.

Most councillors have ward surgeries which individuals can attend. All councils have contact details on their web sites which can be used. Chambers of commerce also have contacts which can be used.

 

[callumwa]

Most car parks in this country are designed for vehicles under 2 tonnes weight. Altering them to take heavier vehicles comes at a cost.


In order to make the signs legal a new Traffic Regulation Order has to be made. In addition, planning permission for change of use (parking to habitation) may have to be put in place. The work involved comes at a cost.


Car parks will normally have drainage for surface water but many will not have facilities for grey water and most will have no foul drainage to take Elsan and no provision of drinking water. Putting in the necessary drainage and water pipes comes at a cost.


Yes - but the economic benefits have to take in the costs mentioned as above plus the running costs which Jim mentioned.


Most councillors have ward surgeries which individuals can attend. All councils have contact details on their web sites which can be used. Chambers of commerce also have contacts which can be used.

Kinda sums up the madness and futility of life in UK PLC.........

regulation needed ... yes, sure, ....... but regulation here is so OTT its unbelievable...


Unlike that in France, a country with bureaucracy like no other....., but Aires everywhere..

 

[dug]

I saw this on outandabout
.

Ian

cheers for bringing this to our attetionI've signed and put it on facebook as well.:thumbug.

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[GJH]

Kinda sums up the madness and futility of life in UK PLC.........

regulation needed ... yes, sure, ....... but regulation here is so OTT its unbelievable...


Unlike that in France, a country with bureaucracy like no other....., but Aires everywhere..

I don't agree that TRO/Planning regulation is OTT at all. We have to acknowledge that our likes may well be someone else's nightmare and strike a balance.

As regards France, aires are only one of the many differences between the UK and France. Judging by the anti-EU sentiments often expressed on here I don't think the majority of people would be pleased if we had to convert all our ways to those of France

Also, my post was mainly about costs (responding to oldfozzie's post) and the majority of those costs would apply even without the regulatory factor.