Advice please Solar controller

[Carolyn and Kev]

Hi Guys.

Swapped a solar controller recently because the one fitted to the Mh was causing the Sargent Panel to shut down and turn off the 12v electrics across the truck!
I replaced it for a German unit but I seem to be having the same fault? I checked the input from the solar panel when connected up and on the one controller it was showing 18v! When I replaced it with the German one..14.7 volts and all was ok. Until Yesterday? Same fault exactly ..18v at the controller going into the battery bank? Yet there is no reason for it to be at fault as far as I can see? Any advice please?
If i disconnect the solar Controller.......the system charges well with the Sargent system and all functions as it should do.
The battery bank is 2 x 100 Wet acid (Sealed) Numax batteries and a starter . There is a special "Bridge system" installed to aid the Starter Generator to sense low battery power and to fire up and charge the low battery when needed. Makes it very self sufficient and rarely need to be on EHU to be honest.
Just struggling with the soalr side of things at the moment if any one can help at all?

The original controller was a EP solar LS1024B (Chines I believe? But reputable) There is no digital screen on this type. A remote one is available though.
The one fitted is a German equivalent as I wanted a easy fit and what I thought was the right one?

The 2 leds Battery and Solar flash rapidly when a over charge fault is detected. This is where I am currently again!

Regards Kev

 

[Diabalo]

You could have 20 plus volts on the solar side and you should have around 14.4 on the battery when bulk charging and around 13.6 when in float, if it's a lot over 14.4v on the battery side then the regulator must be faulty.

 

[PhilandMena]

The Sargent system is OK up to 10 Amps after that costly damage can occur. However, If I understand you correctly your stating your issue is with the regulator pushing out up to 18 V volts to the leisure batteries. This will destroy your leisure batteries and I suggest it is a faulty regulator as most are protected from being wired incorrectly. How much solar power do you have connected to your regulator ? Also, when you say you disconnect the regulator and the Sargent system charges correctly what do you mean exactly. where is the power coming from ? do you mean the Sargent on board charger charges the batteries OK. I too have the Sargent system and have bypassed the Sargent controller with a MPPT 10 amp controller and everything is fine. Hence I suspect the issue may be your controller.

 

[Northernraider]

I think you would be better with an mppt controller than a pwm

I know its made a huge difference on my van

It had one of those Chinese ep power ones on it when i bought it .

I've now fitted a votronic mppt and have to say its literally like night and day

Even on overcast rainy days I get input

 

[Diabalo]

I also ditched the Sargent controller as it was overcharging and replaced it with a Victron mppt Jobbie with the Bluetooth dongle so I can adjust the charging parameters and get the historical charging info for the last 30 days, been ok ever since.

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[funflair]

I have a couple of Buttner regulators for sale if you want to go third time lucky, they are basically the same as Votronic, these are the PP models so not MPPT but quite good all the same.

Martin

 

[Carolyn and Kev]

You could have 20 plus volts on the solar side and you should have around 14.4 on the battery when bulk charging and around 13.6 when in float, if it's a lot over 14.4v on the battery side then the regulator must be faulty.

I am thinking that is where it is at the moment? According to EPsolar..the flashing LEDS indicate a faulty controller. When the solar controller is connected normally...together with the Sargent Charger (Bare with me ...I have not a clue really) If I look at the panel above the door ..It shows the batteries taking in charge at 4 amps solar. The battery voltage is 14.4 volts. Thats not the problem. When in full sun...It goes up to 16 Volts? It then shuts the system down and the pump and lights etc will not work. If I disconnect the controller...The Sargent charger works ok and reads 14.2 volts at any given time on both the starter and the cabin batteries. It therefore seems to be telling me the controller for Solar ..is at fault? Yes?
As I said........A Mechanic when Points and plugs were the main thing to worry about! This is way beyond my aged head and brain sorry

Kev

 

[PhilandMena]

Have you got both regulators connected to your system or just one! I need to get my head round the very basics after reading your post !

 

[Carolyn and Kev]

The Sargent system is OK up to 10 Amps after that costly damage can occur. However, If I understand you correctly your stating your issue is with the regulator pushing out up to 18 V volts to the leisure batteries. This will destroy your leisure batteries and I suggest it is a faulty regulator as most are protected from being wired incorrectly. How much solar power do you have connected to your regulator ? Also, when you say you disconnect the regulator and the Sargent system charges correctly what do you mean exactly. where is the power coming from ? do you mean the Sargent on board charger charges the batteries OK. I too have the Sargent system and have bypassed the Sargent controller with a MPPT 10 amp controller and everything is fine. Hence I suspect the issue may be your controller.

Hi Philandmena..120 watts of solar and its been bypassed by Conrad Anderson for the fit of the Charger generator and a bridge (B2b) device to work alongside the solar and the TG480 Charger genset. The Controller for the solar panel is behind the Sargent unit mounted on the rear wall . It has two cables going in pos and neg from the solar panel and two from the Sargent panel I believe to be again a pos and neg?
When I fitted the new unit ...it functioned really well. It's been only a fortnight or so. Just not getting to grips with the wiring and the solar set up together with the Charger generator? Its all really nice stuff to have but struth.....I dont have enough good brain cells left to work it all out!

 

[Carolyn and Kev]

Have you got both regulators connected to your system or just one! I need to get my head round the very basics after reading your post !

If I take out the Sargent charger tomorrow I can photograph the wiring and what I have got there. It may just help you a little?
Sorry for the confusion but I really hate getting old and not being able to work this out! Bloody annoying to say the least!
Regards Kev

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[PhilandMena]

I have just re-read your post and I think your batteries may well be goosed ! However this does not explain the high voltage from your regulator. Can you check if your regulator is protected against wrong connections, most are and if yours is, I would hazard a guess at the regulator being goosed ? Can you reconnect to the factory fitted Sargent Regulator, assuming you have one.

 

[PhilandMena]

Hi Philandmena..120 watts of solar and its been bypassed by Conrad Anderson for the fit of the Charger generator and a bridge (B2b) device to work alongside the solar and the TG480 Charger genset. The Controller for the solar panel is behind the Sargent unit mounted on the rear wall . It has two cables going in pos and neg from the solar panel and two from the Sargent panel I believe to be again a pos and neg?
When I fitted the new unit ...it functioned really well. It's been only a fortnight or so. Just not getting to grips with the wiring and the solar set up together with the Charger generator? Its all really nice stuff to have but struth.....I dont have enough good brain cells left to work it all out!

Thanks for this! I have to declare I am now out of my depth as have not come across this type of set up before and it would appear there is more to your system than I originally understood. The last thing I want to do is just guess and put you in a worse place than you are now. However, I do judge your batteries may well have had it if your lights are going out at night and your charger is constantly putting 14.4 Volts in. Hopefully, more competent members will be along to get you through this. Best of luck going forward.

 

[Carolyn and Kev]

Batteries have been removed and drop tested with a load test. After 10 seconds of Load...11.5 volts available indicating batteries are good and holding charge with no cell failure. Batteries without the solar controller being connected...charge up with the Sargent charger to a 14.4/5 volts and then steady at 14.5 volts.
It seems that I have a definite fault with the original solar controller but I have been hammered with a poor "New controller" and a good thing its under warranty so I'm guessing it needs sending back?

Kev

 

[Carolyn and Kev]

However, I do judge your batteries may well have had it if your lights are going out at night and your charger is constantly putting 14.4 Volts in. Hopefully, more competent members will be along to get you through this. Best of luck going forward.

I may have mistakingly sent you on a different direction there sorry. The light I was referring to was the actual Light switch above the hab door? The ones you switch on for pump and lights and 12volts etc when wanting to use them.
Sorry about the confusion there. Basically it shuts down the 12v circuit whilst solar is connected.
Apologies for the confusion....My head is a sieve at the moment trying to sort it out!
Thanks for the help though....really appreciate it.

Regards Kev

 

[PhilandMena]

Batteries have been removed and drop tested with a load test. After 10 seconds of Load...11.5 volts available indicating batteries are good and holding charge with no cell failure. Batteries without the solar controller being connected...charge up with the Sargent charger to a 14.4/5 volts and then steady at 14.5 volts.
It seems that I have a definite fault with the original solar controller but I have been hammered with a poor "New controller" and a good thing its under warranty so I'm guessing it needs sending back?

Kev

This does not sound right to me. A drop test should take many hours and being down to 11.5 V after 10 seconds is well I.M.O. confirmation that your batteries are goosed. What sort of load did you apply to your batteries to get them to drop to 11.5 V after 10 seconds and what voltage were the batteries at the start of the drop test. If your constantly putting 14.4 V into your batteries (Lead Acid) your going to cook them, they should have dropped down to 13.7 V when fully charged as this would be the float stage. I agree your controller should be returned. Also, as you only have 120 W of Solar Power, get a half decent MPPT regulator. This is a decent one. The Voltronic are better but more expensive.

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[PhilandMena]

I may have mistakingly sent you on a different direction there sorry. The light I was referring to was the actual Light switch above the hab door? The ones you switch on for pump and lights and 12volts etc when wanting to use them.
Sorry about the confusion there. Basically it shuts down the 12v circuit whilst solar is connected.
Apologies for the confusion....My head is a sieve at the moment trying to sort it out!
Thanks for the help though....really appreciate it.

Regards Kev

No prob's!

 

[PhilandMena]

You might find this helpful ref drop testing.


The best way to test would be to ensure the battery is charged fully and then discharge it over a period of several hours into a known load (say a couple of car headlamp bulbs) Ideally monitor the specific gravity or if you can't do that monitor the voltage with an accurate voltmeter. When it gets down to 11.7 volts or so you will know that the battery is flat. Recharge immediately. If you leave it totally discharged then you will damage the battery.

If you multiply the current drawn by the headlamps by the number of hours it takes to discharge the battery, then you have the total Amp-hours capacity of the battery. If you don't want to risk damage by totally discharging the battery then discharge until the voltage is 12.2 volts or the specific gravity is 1.190 which is half charge.

Most experts advise not discharging the battery more then 50% anyway because if you only discharge to 50% then you dramatically increase the life of your battery.

 

[solaris]

When I had a Wildax I had a B2B fitted along with the alarm. Apparently this duplicated something in the control system. In bright sun the solar input fooled the system into believing the engine was running and shut down the habitation side. Irritating. Had B2B disconnected, all went back to normal. Mind you this was 10 years ago, I’m sure everything (and everyone) is much smarter now.

 

[tonka]

Why did you use an external regulator anyway ? The sargent one in the EC500 is rated to 120w and the smart charging takes care of both cab and leisure batteries. I know some state its a poor regulator but can honestly say mine worked fine with a 120 panel for 5 years.

If you have a seperate controller i would not expect it to be connected in any way to the sargent unit.
I asked sargent about using 2 panels and exceding the 120w, they advise to leave one panel on the EC500 and set it up to solar charge engine only. Then have a second panel via a seperate controller to just the leisure.

Hope you get it sorted

 

[Lenny HB]

I noticed the controller is a 12/24v one, did you connect it in the correct order?
You must connect it to the batteries first then connect the panels, if not it may have set its self up for 24v batteries.

Batteries have been removed and drop tested with a load test. After 10 seconds of Load...11.5 volts available indicating batteries are good and holding charge with no cell failure.

A drop test is just a good way of bu**ering a battery and totally meaningless for a leisure battery. A leisure battery need a slow discharge test to check if it is any good.

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[PhilandMena]

Why did you use an external regulator anyway ? The sargent one in the EC500 is rated to 120w and the smart charging takes care of both cab and leisure batteries. I know some state its a poor regulator but can honestly say mine worked fine with a 120 panel for 5 years.

If you have a seperate controller i would not expect it to be connected in any way to the sargent unit.
I asked sargent about using 2 panels and exceding the 120w, they advise to leave one panel on the EC500 and set it up to solar charge engine only. Then have a second panel via a seperate controller to just the leisure.

Hope you get it sorted

I have a similar set up. 1 x 125 W S.P feeding into the Sargent system with a 10 Amp MPPT regulator (keeping the Sargent factory fitted regulator as a spare and still working like new after 9 year's) and 1 x 120 W S.P. connected directly to the hab batteries via their own regulator. Works well.

 

[Carolyn and Kev]

This does not sound right to me. A drop test should take many hours and being down to 11.5 V after 10 seconds is well I.M.O. confirmation that your batteries are goosed. What sort of load did you apply to your batteries to get them to drop to 11.5 V after 10 seconds and what voltage were the batteries at the start of the drop test. If your constantly putting 14.4 V into your batteries (Lead Acid) your going to cook them, they should have dropped down to 13.7 V when fully charged as this would be the float stage. I agree your controller should be returned. Also, as you only have 120 W of Solar Power, get a half decent MPPT regulator. This is a decent one. The Voltronic are better but more expensive.

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I have taken the two batteries to a dealer local to us (Leisure electrics Tixall Stafford) When I say a drop test ...they put the battery on a bench and placed a load test across the poles. I can only describe it has a pair of 20mm rods connected to an ampere /volt meter with a heavy duty coil between. Basically...shorting the battery out for 15 seconds. They both seemed to read 11.3/5 volts give or take a bit? He put them onto a charger and then put 15 amps of charge back in. They soon went up to 14.8volts and nothing more. They settled at 14.5volts after 15 mins. I was called in to see the figures.
I at the time ..thought that it was ok at that to be honest? Not sure what I was expecting or was to expect ? But the results seemed to say all was ok?

I will hopefully get to the bottom of this in the next few days. If nothing else...I might be selling a solar panel and a used controller for the right money!

Regards Kev

 

[Carolyn and Kev]

I noticed the controller is a 12/24v one, did you connect it in the correct order?
You must connect it to the batteries first then connect the panels, if not it may have set its self up for 24v batteries.


A drop test is just a good way of bu**ering a battery and totally meaningless for a leisure battery. A leisure battery need a slow discharge test to check if it is any good.

Hi Lenny...It came to me set up by Conrad Anderson. I have basically refitted it like for like as a German equivalent only because it read as if it was a better unit and more reliable? I guess I may have been wrong to have bought German?

Regards Kev

 

[tonka]

Hi Lenny...It came to me set up by Conrad Anderson. I have basically refitted it like for like as a German equivalent only because it read as if it was a better unit and more reliable? I guess I may have been wrong to have bought German?

Regards Kev

Why not go back to basics, especially if you only have the 1 x 120w.
Solar panel into the sargent unit.. SORTED.

see how that works

 

[Lenny HB]

Hi Lenny...It came to me set up by Conrad Anderson. I have basically refitted it like for like as a German equivalent only because it read as if it was a better unit and more reliable? I guess I may have been wrong to have bought German?

Regards Kev

You say you fitted it I was asking if you fitted it correctly i.e. did you connect it in the correct order?

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[PhilandMena]

I have taken the two batteries to a dealer local to us (Leisure electrics Tixall Stafford) When I say a drop test ...they put the battery on a bench and placed a load test across the poles. I can only describe it has a pair of 20mm rods connected to an ampere /volt meter with a heavy duty coil between. Basically...shorting the battery out for 15 seconds. They both seemed to read 11.3/5 volts give or take a bit? He put them onto a charger and then put 15 amps of charge back in. They soon went up to 14.8volts and nothing more. They settled at 14.5volts after 15 mins. I was called in to see the figures.
I at the time ..thought that it was ok at that to be honest? Not sure what I was expecting or was to expect ? But the results seemed to say all was ok?

I will hopefully get to the bottom of this in the next few days. If nothing else...I might be selling a solar panel and a used controller for the right money!

Regards Kev

I believe this is a Cold Cranking Amp test. OK for starter batteries! Useless for deep cycle batteries as a knackered leisure battery would pass this test in most cases.

 

[PhilandMena]

As an afterthought I do seem to vaguely recall Sargent telling me their system does not like a B2B. Why not give them a ring, they have great technical support.

 

[Lenny HB]

I have taken the two batteries to a dealer local to us (Leisure electrics Tixall Stafford) When I say a drop test ...they put the battery on a bench and placed a load test across the poles. I can only describe it has a pair of 20mm rods connected to an ampere /volt meter with a heavy duty coil between. Basically...shorting the battery out for 15 seconds. They both seemed to read 11.3/5 volts give or take a bit? He put them onto a charger and then put 15 amps of charge back in. They soon went up to 14.8volts and nothing more. They settled at 14.5volts after 15 mins. I was called in to see the figures.
I at the time ..thought that it was ok at that to be honest? Not sure what I was expecting or was to expect ? But the results seemed to say all was ok?

I will hopefully get to the bottom of this in the next few days. If nothing else...I might be selling a solar panel and a used controller for the right money!

Regards Kev

Those testers went out with the arc do they still sell Model T's where you took it.
Those are real bad news for batteries and will shorten their life. The modern electronic CCA testers are much kinder to the batteries but still not good.


I had a couple of batteries fail they would only accept a CCA test which they passed with flying colours so they wouldn't replace them under warranty. In use as a leisure battery one was good for 10a/h the other 11a/h.

 

[Carolyn and Kev]

Just to add to this...Two weeks before lock down we bought the truck home. Did not really get to try anything properly but what we did try ..seemed to function properly. Since the purchase I have spoken directly to Conrad Anderson who remember the fit of the TG480 Telair Generator and the B2B Bridging unit together with all the other stuff that was requested by the original owners as it actually cost in excess of £12k with the Full VB Air system etc.
They had said that the original owner wanted to be totally independant and totally reliant on his own system only.
Initially we thought (and to a degree...still are) quite chuffed with our purchase. The problem lies with the extent that one goes to when money is no object! That is when it becomes a little bit of an anchor!
I am hopeful that this is something silly and can be sorted with out too much of an issue and without my pocket becoming a really deep hole!
I dont believe this is a big fault ..I really dont. I Just need to learn a lot more about solar for a start and also...how the professionals do their stuff! If I can just get my head around what it is that is actually going on...I may have a chance?
Emphasis on the word ......May!
I was hoping that the information on here might lead me to a quick answer? An easy answer? .........I am looking at this as if its a learning curve. Hopefully...the answers coming forward will allow me to get to what it is that I need to rectify the problem I seem to have?
I know there are amongst you some true genius's and I really believe that. I am an amoeba as I so often state on here.I am to learn from you all. It may take me a while to understand it but I do get there in the end. (My old man would be looking down and saying " So does the number 8 bus too " ) He was a pee taking bugger at time 's too!
In advance to you all......Thank you for any help you may put forward for me. Just bare with me and I will sort it out with your help I am sure.

Regards Kev...............The Novice!

 

[Carolyn and Kev]

As an afterthought I do seem to vaguely recall Sargent telling me their system does not like a B2B. Why not give them a ring, they have great technical support.

Sargent have said and I quote word for word.............." Its not the Sargent charger at all! It will be the controller for the solar panel"
I asked how this could be (Thinking it may be something shutting down because of overcharging?)
A foreign gentleman said.." We only make a quality system and rarely do they fail"
I was told to remove the solar controller and replace it! ...........That came with the words "Full stop"!

I always believe in folks having an opinion ...really do! However........I thought I may as well have been slapped with a big fish across the face for asking the question to Sargent!

Hey.......It's not a problem.

Regards Kev

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