Advice Please on Inverters. (1 Viewer)

Jan 27, 2014
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We are looking to purchase an inverter we would like
one thats suitable for kettle .toaster. my hairdryer .straightners etc .and the possibility of heaters like halogen. fan heater.so one that isnt too small. but not
one that we wouldnt need .we would use just for rallys .w/ends .and a bit of wild camping .many thanks.
 

Minxy

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You're asking for quite a lot to run some of the items - what size battery bank have you got?
 

Jaws

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Hi Beacon
welll.. Lets just take one item .. A fan heater
Most are 1 to 2kW
Using one on 1 kW will draw about ( all rough figures ) 100 amps in an hour
So just running one of the items on your list will drain a couple of decent 110aH batteries in a little over an hour

To run all the items you list ( one at a time of course ) you will need to look for an inverter of at least 2.5kW
You will also need a REALLY serious battery bank and I would suggest a matching solar panel set up too.
Perhaps 4 x 110aH batteries at an absolute minimum MIGHT get you through providing you were careful

Personally I would look at getting a 2k+ generator .. I think that would be a far better, cheaper and easier option for you

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jollyrodger

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Any Good

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JeanLuc

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I would rethink your plans - Jaws has pretty much said it all.
If you decide to go down the inverter route, be aware that some hair straighteners do not like quasi-sine wave inverters and require pure sine wave power. A 2 - 2.5 kw pure sine wave inverter is going to cost somewhere in the region of £750 - £1,000 for a good quality make such as Waeco or Victron.
I would not think about using an electric kettle or space heater unless on mains power; gas is a much more efficient way to heat water and the van when not plugged in. The toaster poses a bit more of a problem but we get on fine with one of these: **Amazon product ASIN B00AOLGR5MIt does mean clearing up crumbs from the hob and the likelihood of a bit of smoke if you do not watch it like a hawk, but for us, it's much more practical than lugging around an electric toaster for the odd occasions when on hook-up.

There is another practical issue regarding the use of a large inverter in your case. You have a Hymer and unless it is a vintage model (80s - early 90s), it will be fitted with a Schaudt Elektroblock (EBL) charging and 12v distribution system. The EBL contains the shunts across which it measures current drawn from the battery. If you start drawing a lot of current direct form the habitation battery (as you must with a large inverter) the EBL will not measure that current drain and can get confused when it detects a much lower voltage at the battery than it can account for by the current drain that it has measured. This can lead to sudden shut-down of the 12V system as the EBL decides that an emergency low-voltage situation exists and the hab. battery(ies) need protection. This situation is much more likely as I understand it, with the more recent digital control panel models. Having said all that, it is quite possible to use an inverter with an EBL (I have a 150W PSW model connected to my batteries and an EBL99) but with the likely currents that your planned usage would draw, I would expect problems.

** p.s. for some reason, the Amazon link to the toaster does not seem to work. Go to Amazon UK and search for 'Yellowstone Folding Camping Toaster'
 

meanders

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one thats suitable for kettle .toaster. my hairdryer .straightners etc .and the possibility of heaters like halogen. fan heater.
And to be honest, even on hookup you couldn't use all these together. Kettle = 8-12 aAmps, toaster = 4-6 Amps, hairdryer 2-3 Amps, any heater... 4 - 12 Amps. Total draw = 18 to 33 Amp!

Many hookups are 10 Amp and less.
 

Don Quixote

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Not long enough, but a little common sense helps..........
Hairdryer, straighteners and even a kettle 700watts can be done, however as already pointed out above there are loads of factors you need to consider.
I have 2000watts quasi-sine wave inverter and the straighteners don't like it, but they work. I have 3 x 110 amp batteries and they can take the load fine, however I have 200watts of solar which on a good day in Spain will replace the power in a few hours directly after taking power out, but UK sun you will struggle after 3 or 4 days and they batteries will die.
I also have a B2B so if needed having not moved for weeks can run engine and fully charged ( NOT top'd UP ) batteries in about 20/30 minutes. Lots to consider. I do 100% time off grid unless in the site fees at the right price.

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OP
OP
Beacons
Jan 27, 2014
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We have 2 leisure batteries and a 100w
solar and soon adding another I wouldn't
be using all at same time only one and that would be a hair dryer the other items that I
mentioned would be maybe s we always
use gas kettle and Only halogen heater
rarely what I should have said was I wanted an all rounder choice sorry to be misleading and thank you all for your time in making kind replys jan.
 
May 19, 2014
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I have always said as a general guide don't use batteries for space or water heating or cooking. As I love the odd full English breakfast in the open air and most of the time would not have the gas barby set up, then I have succumbed to an induction plate. But I have 450Ah batteries and 300W solar so can cope.

Hair straighteners, a 600W - 1000w hairdrier used prudently, and a toaster if you really must are all quite possible, but you will need some good batteries and thoughts on how to replenish them if staying put.

Dave
 

Minxy

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Gas hair straighteners here:


and a gas styler/brush which can be used to dry hair as you brush it):

Broken Link Removed
and a 'turby towel':

Broken Link Removed

Use the towel first - just leave it on the hair for a few minutes to absorb the moisture (it's surprising just how much moisture is absorbed), then use the gas styler/brush to finish off drying and finally the straighteners.

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Last edited:
OP
OP
Beacons
Jan 27, 2014
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Thank you for that ihardly dare admit I do use gas ones in the van I shouldn't have put about electric ones I use them at home and
I was too general in my post . Jan.
Gas hair straighteners here:


and a gas styler/brush which can be used to dry hair as you brush it):

Broken Link Removed
and a 'turby towel':

Broken Link Removed

Use the towel first - just leave it on the hair for a few minutes to absorb the moisture (it's surprising just how much moisture is absorbed), then use the gas styler/brush to finish off drying and finally the straighteners.

 

funflair

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I would go for a pure sine inverter then you don't need to worry about what you plug into it, we use a Merlin 2kw fitted as close to the batteries as possible and it has a remote start/stop inside the van, it works great but you do need to be aware of how you are going to replace the power you have just taken from your batteries.

Martin
 

funflair

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Once you have decided that you want/need an inverter the next big decision is pure sine or quasi sine wave, if nothing else there is quite a big difference in the price of the two different styles.

Our van came with a quasi sine wave inverter fitted but it was pretty useless at running the microwave and totally useless with the Nespresso coffee machine, I changed it for a pure sine wave and now everything works just as it should.

I believe some quasi's are better than others and possibly ours was particularly bad.

Martin
 
Oct 30, 2010
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Once you have decided that you want/need an inverter the next big decision is pure sine or quasi sine wave, if nothing else there is quite a big difference in the price of the two different styles.

Our van came with a quasi sine wave inverter fitted but it was pretty useless at running the microwave and totally useless with the Nespresso coffee machine, I changed it for a pure sine wave and now everything works just as it should.

I believe some quasi's are better than others and possibly ours was particularly bad.

Martin
May I ask what size battery bank you have in the van.
I want to run a similar coffee machine but think it may kill the 2x90ah gel batteries.

Richard.
 

funflair

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Hi Richard

For the last 4 years I have been running 2 x G80 EXIDE gels I think they rate them at 80ah but that is on the 5hr discharge rate, most other batteries quote the 20hr rate which would make these about 100ah. I recharge with 320 watts of solar and through the summer very rarely go on hook up. While we were away last year I thought these batteries were not performing as well as they had previously and it might be time to change them (they might be original which would make them 10 years old) so as they were € for £ in Germany I bought two more, when I got home the old ones seemed as good as new again as they had been on hook up for 4 days in Amsterdam, anyway cutting a long story short I now have 4 of them on with the second two as a backup with an isolator but have not been away to try them in this configuration but can't help but think they will just be twice as good as they were before.

I will add that the coffee machine takes very little out as it only heats a small amount of water, it's the microwave for the milk that takes just under 4 minutes which takes a lot more out.

I know GEL's are not everybody first choice but they get my vote.


Martin

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Last edited:

Doctor Dave

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I would rethink your plans - Jaws has pretty much said it all.
If you decide to go down the inverter route, be aware that some hair straighteners do not like quasi-sine wave inverters and require pure sine wave power. A 2 - 2.5 kw pure sine wave inverter is going to cost somewhere in the region of £750 - £1,000 for a good quality make such as Waeco or Victron.
I would not think about using an electric kettle or space heater unless on mains power; gas is a much more efficient way to heat water and the van when not plugged in. The toaster poses a bit more of a problem but we get on fine with one of these: **Amazon product ASIN B00AOLGR5M


It does mean clearing up crumbs from the hob and the likelihood of a bit of smoke if you do not watch it like a hawk, but for us, it's much more practical than lugging around an electric toaster for the odd occasions when on hook-up.

There is another practical issue regarding the use of a large inverter in your case. You have a Hymer and unless it is a vintage model (80s - early 90s), it will be fitted with a Schaudt Elektroblock (EBL) charging and 12v distribution system. The EBL contains the shunts across which it measures current drawn from the battery. If you start drawing a lot of current direct form the habitation battery (as you must with a large inverter) the EBL will not measure that current drain and can get confused when it detects a much lower voltage at the battery than it can account for by the current drain that it has measured. This can lead to sudden shut-down of the 12V system as the EBL decides that an emergency low-voltage situation exists and the hab. battery(ies) need protection. This situation is much more likely as I understand it, with the more recent digital control panel models. Having said all that, it is quite possible to use an inverter with an EBL (I have a 150W PSW model connected to my batteries and an EBL99) but with the likely currents that your planned usage would draw, I would expect problems.

** p.s. for some reason, the Amazon link to the toaster does not seem to work. Go to Amazon UK and search for 'Yellowstone Folding Camping Toaster'


Amazon product ASIN B00AOLGR5M
Try this.

(You may have to disable "ADBLOCKER" if using Windows 10 and Edge)

Dave
 

funflair

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The link is there but as I said you may have to disable adguard. (Or adblocker)

(At least I can see it when I do - the link is the bit in blue.)

Dave

Can't see it here and didn't know I had AdBlocker but if it working that well I will leave it alone, on Mac anyway.

Martin
 

JeanLuc

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Strange, I posted from my iPad and could not see the link, but when I looked later on my MacBook Pro, I could see it. Both devices have Adblock Plus running.
The only difference is that the iPad uses Safari and I use Firefox on the MBP.

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funflair

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If its a gas toaster we are supposed to be looking at "we have one already".

Martin
 
Oct 30, 2010
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Hi Richard

For the last 4 years I have been running 2 x G80 EXIDE gels I think they rate them at 80ah but that is on the 5hr discharge rate, most other batteries quote the 20hr rate which would make these about 100ah. I recharge with 320 watts of solar and through the summer very rarely go on hook up. While we were away last year I thought these batteries were not performing as well as they had previously and it might be time to change them (they might be original which would make them 10 years old) so as they were € for £ in Germany I bought two more, when I got home the old ones seemed as good as new again as they had been on hook up for 4 days in Amsterdam, anyway cutting a long story short I now have 4 of them on with the second two as a backup with an isolator but have not been away to try them in this configuration but can't help but think they will just be twice as good as they were before.

I will add that the coffee machine takes very little out as it only heats a small amount of water, it's the microwave for the milk that takes just under 4 minutes which takes a lot more out.

I know GEL's are not everybody first choice but they get my vote.


Martin
Thanks for that info Martin.
I've had a 1800w inverter fitted which we hoped to run our Dolce Gusto coffee maker(1500w) from. As soon as we tried it out the battery voltage dropped and cut out with alarms sounding. Batteries, like the van, are 9 months old.
Some one told me that I needed 5-6 times the amps used in battery capacity for it to work well. You don't appear to have any problems with a set up similar to mine.
Richard.
 

funflair

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Thanks for that info Martin.
I've had a 1800w inverter fitted which we hoped to run our Dolce Gusto coffee maker(1500w) from. As soon as we tried it out the battery voltage dropped and cut out with alarms sounding. Batteries, like the van, are 9 months old.
Some one told me that I needed 5-6 times the amps used in battery capacity for it to work well. You don't appear to have any problems with a set up similar to mine.
Richard.

Hi Richard I guess you have had a pure sine inverter fitted.

Are you reading the battery voltage at the inverter or the van panel, our original inverter used to alarm on low voltage but it was sat at the end of about 7 metres of cable, I moved it all closer to the batteries and it runs off 10mm diameter cables straight from the batteries.

After heating the milk for 3 or 4 minutes in the microwave and then two coffees in the Nespresso the batteries are still above 12 volts as the inverter is running, straight back up to 12.7 when the load comes off and fully charged again with a couple of hours of sun.

Martin

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dabhand

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Just stay at home Mike!!;)

Novel idea ..... Jan wear a hat and use the hob and grill! :D(y)
 
R

Robert Clark

Deleted User
May I ask what size battery bank you have in the van.
I want to run a similar coffee machine but think it may kill the 2x90ah gel batteries.

Richard.
Richard - I think we have the same van as you,
We have a Victron 2kw inverter / charger and 2 x 100 solar panels ( fitted by @vanbitz)
We removed the two 80Ah leisure batteries from thier locker and moved them to the garage - then I added a further two matching batteries, which I bought off EBay.
We run a hairdryer every morning and a Nespreso machine very frequently. We also have a Dyson vac which we use every 3 or 4 days and an electric toaster.
On occasions the Carthago control panel indicates low voltage - but more importantly, the Victron inverter control panel never shows low voltage.
 
Nov 30, 2009
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As above @Robert Clark I can also recommend Victron inverters. I have fitted an Inverter/Charger to the Van conversion.
This is what i fitted....www.victronenergy.com/inverters-chargers/multiplus-12v-24v-48v-800va-3kva

These units are perfect for a Motorhome. They are far more than just a basic charger and inverter.
Click on the link to see some of the extra features available. You can even change the charging profile to suit your battery type.
They dont come cheap but will last years and take heavy daily use if required.

Ralph (y)

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