Advice please - Engine turning over but will not start.

[Toady]

Hi,

Hymer 2017 704PL 2.3 engine size.

Prior to driving to site, I topped up tank with diesel from 20 gal container which I have done in past with no issues.

Drove MH to a site, parked up, went to start MH the following day and will not start.

Called the RAC who inspected MH this morning. Van turning over and diagnostic test performed.
1. Fuel pressure good
2. RPM signal good
3. No pulse at injectors

RAC used fuel start and engine caught but did not start.

Considered it may have been an immobiliser issue as van was working perfectly prior to parking up on site.

I believe there are two immobilisers on MH. I contacted tracking company who turned off remote immobiliser and I used a spare key in case the Fiat immobiliser was the problem. Still nothing.

I would be grateful for advice please on anything I can do as I am still on site still?

Tomorrow, I have to make a decision on whether MH is recovered to my local garage or Fiat dealer? The Fiat dealer will be more expensive but probably got vast experience and knowledge of this specific issue.

 

[steve69]

If the RAC man couldn't get it going, why didn't he arrange a breakdown pick-up? Or phone with further enquiries for more advice?

 

[Toady]

If the RAC man couldn't get it going, why didn't he arrange a breakdown pick-up? Or phone with further enquiries for more advice?

To be fair, I think he did what he could do within his limits.

It was agreed that pick up would be arranged tomorrow (Monday) when I am able to discuss the problems with my garage and the Fiat workshop and agree who will do the work.

I will ring the RAC when agreed who will in turn arrange the pick up.

You only get the one pick up. My fear is that my garage may not have the knowledge or equipment to do the work and it would cost me a fortune to then arrange transport from their workshop to a Fiat workshop. You roll the dice!

 

[Toady]

The thing I find strange is that his diagnostic tester could not identify whether the immobiliser was the issue? Apparently it can identify this with other makes but not Fiat?

 

[GeoffnDee]

Toady There should be a crash sensor safety cut off switch fitted , at the left side floor footwell panel to the left of the glove box, which has a re-set button which may be worth checking. (Although I admit I would expect it to shut the fuel pressure supply off if it had been activated). Its position may also be shown in the Fiat owners handbook.

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[Toady]

Toady There should be a crash sensor safety cut off switch fitted , at the left side floor footwell panel to the left of the glove box, which has a re-set button which may be worth checking. (Although I admit I would expect it to shut the fuel pressure supply off if it had been activated). Its position may also be shown in the Fiat owners handbook.

Thank you for your response.

I discussed this with the engineer. He stated he did not believe there was a cut off switch on this model. That said, the fuel is pumping but the injectors are not activating.

 

[Landy Andy]

I think you will have an electric fuel pump, so you will have a fuel cutoff switch. On the older Ducato it is in the passenger footwell near the glovebox, and I doubt it’s changed on newer fiats.

 

[Toady]

I think you will have an electric fuel pump, so you will have a fuel cutoff switch. On the older Ducato it is in the passenger footwell near the glovebox, and I doubt it’s changed on newer fiats.

Hi,
I did take a look in that area after viewing You Tube but nothing was apparent. The matter was discussed with the RAC but he didn’t think there was a button and he stated that this wasn’t the issue. I will take another look in the morning because I am not ruling out anything.
There was a terrible storm on the the night prior to the non start. Loads of rain and wind.
Many thanks

 

[Raul]

Rain; is your scuttle draining ok? Some may leak on top of the engine and can cause lots of electrical problems, even injector shorting. Hope not.

 

[Toady]

Rain; is your scuttle draining ok? Some may leak on top of the engine and can cause lots of electrical problems, even injector shorting. Hope not.

Checked this area the following day and it all appeared in order and was dry so fingers crossed.

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[68c]

Are you certain it was diesel you topped up with from that 20 gal container? Silly question I know but the engine may have started OK with the diesel in the fuel lines and filter and run reasonably. However unlikely to start with a diesel/petrol mix.

 

[Toady]

Are you certain it was diesel you topped up with from that 20 gal container? Silly question I know but the engine may have started OK with the diesel in the fuel lines and filter and run reasonably. However unlikely to start with a diesel/petrol mix.

I did consider this but fuel checked by RAC and he stated in his opinion, everything was in order.
I will highlight this to Fiat when it is dropped off.

 

[Toady]

Fun and games!

I will now need a 4x4 to pull the MH from its present position to a main car park where it will be placed on the recovery vehicle.

Trying to find an available Fiat workshop to carry out the necessary work was another headache. They are all so busy.

 

[gus-lopez]

Could it be emf interference with the immobiliser? Quite common in some places? See whether you can move the van 1/2 a mile somewhere & try starting it then?

 

[gus-lopez]

I will now need a 4x4 to pull the MH from its present position to a main car park where it will be placed on the recovery vehicle.

try starting it when it has been moved there. it could well be something interferingt with the immobiliser

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[cyberyacht]

Highly unlikely to be the emergency cutout. If that activates, the engine won't even turn over and the hazards will be flashing. As I discovered in France this summer!

 

[Toady]

try starting it when it has been moved there. it could well be something interferingt with the immobiliser

Hi,
I will try starting it tomorrow when it has been moved. We have parked in this location many times without an issue. The only thing different was the storm which rocked the van all night.

I have not located the fuel cut off on this model. I have checked the passenger footwell area but nothing. I will run it past the recovery guys in the morning as well. RAC technician couldn’t locate the cut off.

Thanks

 

[Toady]

Your views please?

My MH was recovered to a commercial Fiat dealer who were given the full particulars of the vehicle.

I received a phone call this morning to inform me that as it is an A Class Hymer, the technician is not trained in removing the drivers seat, dashboard and r/h/s drivers cabinet to access the electrics.

This is all well and good but the MH was recovered by an artic and taken to their workshop on their agreement knowing the particulars of the vehicle. Now I have been informed that they cannot do the work and it will have to be transported to a Hymer dealer.

As far as the RAC are concerned, they have recovered the vehicle.

I have contacted my insurance company for advice but they have had been dealing with it all day and I am still awaiting a response.

The nearest Hymer/Fiat specialist is either Highbridge, Somerset or Erwin Hymer Center, Staffordshire and the MH is in west Wales.

Have any of you been in this position and if yes, what was the outcome?

Thanks
Toady

 

[headlight]

My friend had a very similar experience in the summer ie RAC recovered his van to a Fiat Professional garage who then said they didn't have the required diagnostics.
After much time arguing with the Fiat garage, RAC, his insurers and Fiat for a week he had to pay to have it taken elsewhere.
The RAC claimed that they had fulfilled their obligation.

 

[Toady]

My friend had a very similar experience in the summer ie RAC recovered his van to a Fiat Professional garage who then said they didn't have the required diagnostics.
After much time arguing with the Fiat garage, RAC, his insurers and Fiat for a week he had to pay to have it taken elsewhere.
The RAC claimed that they had fulfilled their obligation.

This is the position I am in.

SAGA have reviewed the case today and it appears that the RAC have fulfilled their obligation.

The RAC have quoted me £1538 to move the MH from its present position to the nearest Hymer dealer in Staffordshire.

Looking at my best options at present.

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[meanders]

Have you tried ringing Fiat Camper Assist on 00800 3428 1111. It's out of warranty, but I found them most helpful with Fiat main dealer cutting up funny.

 

[GeoffnDee]

As the problem appears to be with the Fiat side of things (not Hymer) is there anywhere nearer that repairs Fiat vans that is willing to take it on even though it is a Motorhome and may not be easy to work on. Or are there any Motorhome repair workshops nearer to you that are willing to get involved in finding the problem or calling in someone who can if needed.

 

[jockaneezer]

That's the most miserable, lame excuse I've heard in ages !
All the relevant pieces will be held together with screws, nuts and bolts and probably a few plastic clips that will be found on most vehicles ? The engine's turning over, so it can only be a fuel supply or an injector signal issue ? I'm sure they could over ride the Fiat immobiliser by plugging in their professional software via the obd plug ?
Sounds like they just don't want the job ?

 

[Toady]

That's the most miserable, lame excuse I've heard in ages !
All the relevant pieces will be held together with screws, nuts and bolts and probably a few plastic clips that will be found on most vehicles ? The engine's turning over, so it can only be a fuel supply or an injector signal issue ? I'm sure they could over ride the Fiat immobiliser by plugging in their professional software via the obd plug ?
Sounds like they just don't want the job ?

I totally agree with you.

I will be heading to the dealer with a friend who has previous experience working in a caravan workshop tomorrow. Our aim is to strip out the seat and necessary equipment to allow the Fiat Technician to do their job.

I personally think that if they disable the Fiat immobiliser then that will be a start.

I will keep you updated.

 

[Toady]

As the problem appears to be with the Fiat side of things (not Hymer) is there anywhere nearer that repairs Fiat vans that is willing to take it on even though it is a Motorhome and may not be easy to work on. Or are there any Motorhome repair workshops nearer to you that are willing to get involved in finding the problem or calling in someone who can if needed.

The problem is where we live. Most workshops seem to be fully booked for months.

I now have to weigh the cost of moving it again to sorting it in situ.

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[Toady]

Have you tried ringing Fiat Camper Assist on 00800 3428 1111. It's out of warranty, but I found them most helpful with Fiat main dealer cutting up funny.

Thanks for the information. I will give them a call on Monday.

 

[Toady]

Be warned! If you have an A Class Hymer that needs attention on the engine/ electrics then make sure you are recovered to a Hymer specialist that has attached Fiat workshop. It appears that some commercial Fiat workshops will not touch your MH. Very strange.

 

[Captain Yoghurtpot]

I wish you the very best of good luck.
Horrendous situation.

 

[headlight]

Not necessarily only A class Hymers.
My friends Hymer van isn't an A class but Fiat Professional still refused to work on it.

 

[Toady]

Bit of an update.

I was at the Fiat workshop at 8 am this morning and stripped out all the required fittings as stipulated by the workshop manager.

They have now agreed to carry out an examination of the vehicle.

A couple of photos. Hopefully it will get fixed and I can remember how to put it back together again.