Advice needed on electric bike suspension fork please

[violet]

I asked last year about electric bikes but in the end didn't buy. We are now looking to get some for this year. We want to buy two electric bikes and a swing away type carrier for the back of our campervan.
Our main criteria are,
1. lightweight bikes with a range of about 60 mies and to have either a chargeable range extender or be able to buy a second battery.
2. either step over or low step
3. to be able to use them on roads but also on towpaths, gravel, forest roads, green lanes, etc. Some of the towpaths we have cycled on in Sweden were rough and bumpy with gravel and tree roots and the bike would need to deal with those conditions.
I was looking at two step through models, the Ribble Al E step through hybrid and a Vado step through hybrid ( various models). These weigh about 15 kg with panier, lights, mudguard,etc. I have been told that these lighter bikes will have integral batteries rather than removable ones but that these can be ridden as normal bikes, if necessary without using the motor. I was told both bikes were ideal for the uses I had in mind.
I was just about to arrange visits to see and test these (one a long journey) when the salesperson in the Vado shop said that there was no suspension fork on the bike. The fork is rigid. I then phoned Ribble again to ask about their bike. I was told that there is no suspension fork but the bike has a carbon fork to deal with vibrations.
So now to my question ... will the type if cycling we want to do be uncomfortable with a carbon fork?

 

[Mikeco]

A decent ebike will have front suspension at least.

 

[Arnside037]

We've got a pair of Scott sub e tour step thro bikes . I can't say I'm bothered about having suspension forks. I'd rather have a lighter bike than a suspension fork. Or get a gel seat cover. I have 50mm hybrid tyres- they are wide and robust enough for canal towpaths and fine for road work and over the moors and green lanes. They are identical bikes so the batteries can be swapped when one runs out because SWMBO has needed the extra oomph and used up all the power. If the batteries were fixed internal then no, you can't swap or replace with a spare on the go. Some friends have newer models of Scotts with batteries in the downtube and they can be charged in situ or removed for charging but these would be more difficult to swap on the go, but not impossible. We went for step throughs because a friend said that when you get your hip replacement , cocking a leg over a crossbar is no fun. I find it easier to handle the step through and keep them balanced. I am looking to get an extra battery as a spare for either bike as we are doing a 4 day Way of the Roses ride. We did the C2C in 3 days on them, no trouble.
If you want lighter bikes then that may mean smaller batteries say 300Whr and less distance. Ours are 400WHr and bikes weigh 25kg. If I bought another to replace the current one it would be a Cube Kathmandu like this one

So will your riding be uncomfortable with a carbon fork ... for the riding you describe, you may have no option but to go for an ebike with a suspension fork, otherwise it may be a lighter bike with a carbon fork but this may not be suitable for the type of riding that you describe.
I'd love to find a lighter ebike to do the riding that I want, but haven't found one yet that I can afford, Maybe they will come in a few years time but I cannot keep waiting, time is passing me by.

 

[violet]

A decent ebike will have front suspension at least.

These bikes ought to be decent, the Ribble with a battery extender is about £3000 and the Vado is more than that.

 

[Arnside037]

Got to admit violet that your choice of Vado bikes is interesting. May change my mind on the Kathmandu. The Specialized Turbo Vado 5 looks appealing. 90 Nm of touque and a 710Wh battery ... what's not to like, apart form the price.

https://www.rutlandcycling.com/elec...ough-electric-hybrid-bike-red/95022-3604.html

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[Mikeco]

Just had a quick look at the Ribble one and it appears that they are quite expensive especially as they only have a rear hub motor so it must be the lightweight frame that you are paying for.
Most decent ebikes are not lightweight but will have a centre crank motor, ours are Orbea ones and have proved to be very good.

 

[MattR]

I asked last year about electric bikes but in the end didn't buy. We are now looking to get some for this year. We want to buy two electric bikes and a swing away type carrier for the back of our campervan.
Our main criteria are,
1. lightweight bikes with a range of about 60 mies and to have either a chargeable range extender or be able to buy a second battery.
2. either step over or low step
3. to be able to use them on roads but also on towpaths, gravel, forest roads, green lanes, etc. Some of the towpaths we have cycled on in Sweden were rough and bumpy with gravel and tree roots and the bike would need to deal with those conditions.
I was looking at two step through models, the Ribble Al E step through hybrid and a Vado step through hybrid ( various models). These weigh about 15 kg with panier, lights, mudguard,etc. I have been told that these lighter bikes will have integral batteries rather than removable ones but that these can be ridden as normal bikes, if necessary without using the motor. I was told both bikes were ideal for the uses I had in mind.
I was just about to arrange visits to see and test these (one a long journey) when the salesperson in the Vado shop said that there was no suspension fork on the bike. The fork is rigid. I then phoned Ribble again to ask about their bike. I was told that there is no suspension fork but the bike has a carbon fork to deal with vibrations.
So now to my question ... will the type if cycling we want to do be uncomfortable with a carbon fork?

The carbon folk may reduce vibrations but those would be vibrations from road use. They would not make much difference to the rough, bumpy tracks you mentioned above. In those situations, you would need reasonably wide tyres and suspension in the forks. IMHO based on cycling non-electric bikes.

 

[violet]

Just had a quick look at the Ribble one and it appears that they are quite expensive especially as they only have a rear hub motor so it must be the lightweight frame that you are paying for.
Most decent ebikes are not lightweight but will have a centre crank motor, ours are Orbea ones and have proved to be very good.

Ribble staff made it sound that their rear hub motor was a good thing, it sounds as if you don't agree. Can you elucidate a bit more please?

 

[Waveski]

I have one of the early Vado’s with suspension. The suspension is very short travel and stiff, I still use gel grips and gloves with gel pads for comfort. I come from a mountain biking background and I take my bike off road to stupid places where a 74yr old should not go! The biggest limitation is the road tyres. I also have an old specialised mountain bike with no suspension which was quite comfortable in its day but has big softer tyres. I suspect the fixed fork Vado is probably ok for what you want to do, but you need to do a test ride and compare. I guess it depends on your balance of off road and tarmac usage. I’m not sure I have helped much other than to not dismiss fixed forks without a trial.
My biggest serious concern would be the fixed batteries, I never leave my bike on the back of the van without removing the battery and the saddle for security reasons. The battery comes into the van to be charged. The bike is chained to the tow-bar with the biggest motorbike chain I could find and has a VANBITZ security alarm loop.
Whatever you go for, you are in for some great fun, electric bikes open up a new world.

 

[violet]

Got to admit violet that your choice of Vado bikes is interesting. May change my mind on the Kathmandu. The Specialized Turbo Vado 5 looks appealing. 90 Nm of touque and a 710Wh battery ... what's not to like, apart form the price.

https://www.rutlandcycling.com/elec...ough-electric-hybrid-bike-red/95022-3604.html

Thanks for this. Just looked this model up and it appears to have an 80mm suspension fork. I was told the other Vado SL turbo models (3 and 4) don't have them. I shall find out more tomorrow.
The description I found also says that this bike gives assistance up to 28mph but I thought the law allowed only to 15.5mph in the UK ... or have I read it wrongly?

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[Mikeco]

Ribble staff made it sound that their rear hub motor was a good thing, it sounds as if you don't agree. Can you elucidate a bit more please?

it’s just a cheap way to convert a normal bike into an ebike which results in a heavy wheel either front or back.
A decent ebike will have been designed to accommodate a crank motor which can be seen on many good ebikes.

 

[Beltie]

Unless you spend a lot of money a suspension fork will just be adding extra weight for little improvement. I would invest the money in decent tyres instead.

 

[Waveski]

Just checked the Specialized website, the Vado SL has suspension built into the headset. Interesting!

 

[Jamesh]

I ride a carbon forked alu framed bike in the canal towpaths all the time, no problem!

Ok I don't go out of my way to find tree roots, potholes broken concrete slabs etc but sometimes to avoid a walker you have yo go on the rough side.

Are you a cyclist or a motor cyclist if your mainly cycling with assistance then the lighter bike will be preferable.
If a lot more assistance is required then the heavier bike with bigger battery motor and suspension would be the way to go...

 

[Arnside037]

Waveski makes a good point about charging batteries and being a Motorhomes ... if the batteries are not removable, how are you going to recharge when you are on tour?
I was advised against hub motors of two reasons, centre of gravity and punctures. I got a huge rear wheel puncture while in the moho on a Scottish railway ride - a slice of rock tore a hole. Needed to remove the wheel , tyre and replace the inner tube. It would have ben considerably harder if I had to disconnect the cables to a hub motor before removing tyre and tube from the wheel.
And like Waveski, I also remove battery and saddle before locking bike on back of moho.

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[orridge]

Just had a quick look at the Ribble one and it appears that they are quite expensive especially as they only have a rear hub motor so it must be the lightweight frame that you are paying for.
Most decent ebikes are not lightweight but will have a centre crank motor, ours are Orbea ones and have proved to be very good.

Depends what you are looking for it it's a road or gravel ebike like the Ribble you would not expect nor need suspension so keeping the weight down would be the key consideration and 60+ miles range is pretty good considering it's only a rear hub.

It would be more comparable to the Orbea Gain rather than some of the other Orbea mountain bikes.

 

[Arnside037]

Thanks for this. Just looked this model up and it appears to have an 80mm suspension fork. I was told the other Vado SL turbo models (3 and 4) don't have them. I shall find out more tomorrow.
The description I found also says that this bike gives assistance up to 28mph but I thought the law allowed only to 15.5mph in the UK ... or have I read it wrongly?

15.5 mph is about 25km/ph. Is it a misreading of 25 for 28, or a misprint or something like that. You are right with Uk limits of 15.5 mph.
I did manage a 42 mph blast on a short steep downhill on the C2C last year! But the motor had long since given up assisting me by that point!

 

[MrPG]

I work in the cycle industry so have some experience.
The single most important thing to comfort and grip on any bike is just like it is in a motorhome.
Tyres and tyre pressure. Most people pump the tyres up to what it says on the tyre. This is just the max pressure for the integrity of that tyre. IMO with the correct tyre pressure you won’t need a heavy suspension on a lightweight ebike.

 

[Waveski]

With reference to the 28mph assistance, I think that is for the USA. The European bikes cut out assistance at 15mph or otherwise it is classed as a motorbike

 

[Winchester123]

Have a Turbo Vado 4.0 and the assistance is to 25km/hr or in fact just a little more. Fantastic bike to ride and very comfortable.
Battery is removable but can also charge in situ

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[Figaro]

In my experience, cycling over seriously rough terrain, eg tree roots you mention, with or without suspension, it's going to be uncomfortable unless you adapt to the conditions, eg lift you bum off the seat over the worst bumps and let your legs / knees cusion the shocks.
Bike suspension is very primative and can only do so much, and not enough to give a smooth ride over the conditions you have in mind.

 

[Winchester123]

The turbo Vado has a suspension seat post as well and the tyres are enormous and soak up a lot of bumps. Despite the large tres it’s surprisingly easy to pedal even without electric support

 

[stevewagner]

Ribble staff made it sound that their rear hub motor was a good thing, it sounds as if you don't agree. Can you elucidate a bit more please?

With a rear hub motor all you have to do is keep the pedals turning and the bike will ride with virtually no effort. With a mid-crank motor you have to put in some effort which ranges from a little to a lot depending on the setting you choose. My wife has a hub drive which suits her and I have a mid-crank Kalkhoff which I love and suits me well.

 

[Winchester123]

Advantage of the crank motor is that it works through the gears so better at going up hills. In full power mode the Turbo Vado will cruise up a hill at 15mph with almost no effort on he pedals

 

[stevewagner]

Advantage of the crank motor is that it works through the gears so better at going up hills. In full power mode the Turbo Vado will cruise up a hill at 15mph with almost no effort on he pedals

Agree 100%

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[Figaro]

Advantage of the crank motor is that it works through the gears so better at going up hills. In full power mode the Turbo Vado will cruise up a hill at 15mph with almost no effort on he pedals

A hub motor can do that too

Edit : ok, maybe it does require a little more input on the hill ? lol

 

[jumar]

Might be worth looking at Canyon bikes...they use a very worthy Fizau motor/battery system...we have a couple of roadlight models....the battery and motor are both small and can be removed in a flash...we charge ours off the van leisure battery...

 

[The Coops]

Have a look on the Van Moof website they are launching a new bike that will fit your needs exactly I think they are the X4 and x5

 

[violet]

Thank you all. Your information and advice is incredibly helpful. I am going to read it all again then follow up with some research. This will be my day's work today and I shall enjoy it. It's exciting to be thinking of getting new bikes.

 

[Arnside037]

Its good to see the market is blossoming with designs. Van Moof look innovative. Very US and weights in lbs, but they seem to be around the 20kg. New gearing mechanism which may prove easier for muggins to not have to maintain than the commonly fitted derailleurs.
Not sure that 69 Nm of torque is enough these days.
The latest Bosch Drive Unit Performance CX Generation 4 has 85Nm by comparison. It's not all about motor wattage (250W seems standard) nor about voltage (36 V for example) nor about battery size/weight and duration ( 320w seems small, 720w seems big) it can be about how much assistance they can give you when they work together. My four year old Scott delivers a mere 42Nm in turbo mode and I'd love one of the newer 85Nm motors. There doesn't seem to be much of a trade-in market like it is for cars and mohos and I can't justify buying a new one... then maybe...

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