Advanced alernator charging regulator. (1 Viewer)

[scotjimland]

For those who do a lot of wild camping and want to get the best charge from your alternator you may be interested in this product. If you generally use EHU or only free camp occasional then probably not ..

Disclaimer: I have no connection, financial or otherwise with Sterling or any of their agents..

Quote:
Standard alternators are not designed to be good battery chargers; they are designed only to charge an engine start battery sufficiently to start the engine. Because of this inherent design problem associated with the standard regulator, a more advanced regulator is required which in effect converts the alternators from a constant voltage power supply to the latest 4-step constant current battery charger (see battery charger graphs). Because of this improvement in the alternator control system, these regulators dramatically enhance the alternator's charge rates by between 200-2000%,depending on how poor the original system is.

Interested? read more here Link Removed

 

[hilldweller]

For those who do a lot of wild camping and want to get the best charge from your alternator you may be interested in this product.

Looks good to me with one proviso -- split charge relay -- SIMPLE.

Diode block + new regulator -- COMPLEX therefore more to go wrong and less chance of a repair when miles from home. Warranty problems with new vehicle ?

 

[Bigtrev8xl]

Hi Jim.
Sterling also do “Battery 2 Battery Charger” which is much easier to fit because you don’t need to open up the alternator and invalidate your vehicle warranty.

Cheers Big Trev

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[scotjimland]

Hi Jim.
Sterling also do “Battery 2 Battery Charger” which is much easier to fit because you don’t need to open up the alternator and invalidate your vehicle warranty.

Cheers Big Trev

Hi

Yes indeed, I was aware of Bat 2 Bat product, Sterling do a great range .. Link Removed

However, I'm not clued up enough to make a objective technical comparison, reading the literature for the units they both look to do a similar job, to that end I've emailed Sterling for clarification, pros / cons of both.

Will post the reply

Cheers

Jim

 

[Douglas]

My only experience this this kind of thing is the Aderc system that I had on my boat.

The system worked very well, the only problem I had was with the voltage/amperage display unit. There is a rotary switch on the unit to change the various functions and the switch failed withing the first year and then the second switch fail in the same time period.

But as a charging control unit it worked OK.

Doug...

 

[sinbad1]

I had one on my boat for years worked great if i were to full time i would certainly get one Acorn Alternator controller

Regards

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[Tony Lee]

Looks good to me with one proviso -- split charge relay -- SIMPLE.

Simple but results in very poor return on your money because you will never get to use the full available capacity of your battery.

Best of all worlds is install a little bit of switching to run your inverter off the engine supply (Yes, via a split-charge relay) and supply your good three-stage mains charger (do you have one?) from the inverter as you drive. Uses standard components that are usually in the motorhome anyway and there are minimal problems with voltage drop or low alternator voltage.

One Sterling and other similar DC to DC systems use a very similar approach - except that the inverter and charger are special purpose and integrated within the same (expensive) box. The one Jim mentioned for controlling an alternator is also an effective unit but does require special systems and can also be prone to voltage drops unless remote battery voltage sensing is used.

 

[scotjimland]

Reply from Sterling which is a bit short on content nor explains why they have two products doing essentially the same job..

Charles Sterling
to me ..
The bat to bat is 100 times simpler to fit

that's the entire message ...

 

[wizzer59]

Hi everyone
I have no understanding of any of this, but am very interested in anything that would make my (future) motorhome more efficient at charging the batteries,(we like wild camping)

but I would like to know if the the alternator is working harder with this system does that mean I'm using more fuel?? or should i go and crawl back under my rock:Blush:

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[scotjimland]

Hi everyone
I have no understanding of any of this, but am very interested in anything that would make my (future) motorhome more efficient at charging the batteries,(we like wild camping)

but I would like to know if the the alternator is working harder with this system does that mean I'm using more fuel?? or should i go and crawl back under my rock:Blush:

Hi ..

short answer yes, as they say, nowt for nowt .. but I doubt if you would notice any significant drop in MPG .. and once the batteries are full, the load will drop back to normal.. much would depend on how large a battery bank and how flat they were when you set off..

The normal spit charge system at best only charges your battery to about 80% , so .. a 100ah battery would only be charged to 80ah giving a useful capacity (using best practice of not discharging below 50 % ) of 40 ah .. if fully charged that would increase to 50 ah , 25% more



jim

 

[wizzer59]

Hi Jim
Thanks for the prompt answer.

Blimy so the standard charging systems on mh's are not very efficient at all, why isn't all this stuff fitted at mh factorys??oh:

 

[TDH]

I'm sorry, I'm a bit dense about all of this. My van, which I've relatively recently acquired, has an auxilliary battery under the seat in the cab. It's not wired in to the charging system so I trickle-charge it between trips. I want to be able to charge it from the vehicle's alternator. I had a look at a link somebody put up last week to VWP's site and saw a split charge relay for £15, and also a 12v 70a split charge unit for £33. Is it really as simple as buying one of these and fitting it, or am I missing the clever stuff?

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[scotjimland]

Hi Jim
Thanks for the prompt answer.

Blimy so the standard charging systems on mh's are not very efficient at all, why isn't all this stuff fitted at mh factorys??oh:

Simple answer COST, today vans are built to price.. same reason many don't fit a decent mains charger.. and the novice buyer is blissfully unaware .. usually too distracted by the latest colour co ordinated interior.

I'm sorry, I'm a bit dense about all of this. My van, which I've relatively recently acquired, has an auxilliary battery under the seat in the cab. It's not wired in to the charging system so I trickle-charge it between trips. I want to be able to charge it from the vehicle's alternator. I had a look at a link somebody put up last week to VWP's site and saw a split charge relay for £15, and also a 12v 70a split charge unit for £33. Is it really as simple as buying one of these and fitting it, or am I missing the clever stuff?
Today 14:37

Hi

I'm surprised it has no split charge relay fitted .. however, as already discussed a spit charge system won't fully charge the leisure battery.. but much depends on your intended use, and budget.
If you use primarily on EHU then it wouldn't be a huge benefit to fit a bat 2 bat charger, a split charge system would suffice .. on the other hand if you plan to camp off ehu then it would pay dividends..

jim

 

[TDH]

I'm surprised it has no split charge relay fitted .. however, as already discussed a spit charge system won't fully charge the leisure battery.. but much depends on your intended use, and budget.
If you use primarily on EHU then it wouldn't be a huge benefit to fit a bat 2 bat charger, a split charge system would suffice .. on the other hand if you plan to camp off ehu then it would pay dividends..

jim

Thanks Jim,

My dad converted the van and probably never gave it a thought. We rarely use EHU - excuse me being thick Jim ..... what would pay dividends?

Trevor.

 

[scotjimland]

Thanks Jim,

My dad converted the van and probably never gave it a thought. We rarely use EHU - excuse me being thick Jim ..... what would pay dividends?

Trevor.

Hi Trevor , sorry if that wasn't clear, I was referring to The 'bat 2 bat' charger unit..

jim

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[TDH]

Thanks.

 

[don]

We have a bat to bat charger fitted to this our 3rd M/H would'nt be withoout it,
Leasure Batts last much longer.
Don

 

[wizzer59]

Ya know it is occurring to me that once I have bought my nice expensive motorhome,

to then make it into a decent long term holiday home (Bat to bat, solar, gaslow, inverters, sog's, geni's etc, etc) is going to cost me another bloody fortuneoh:oh:

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[scotjimland]

Ya know it is occurring to me that once I have bought my nice expensive motorhome,

to then make it into a decent long term holiday home (Bat to bat, solar, gaslow, inverters, sog's, geni's etc, etc) is going to cost me another bloody fortuneoh:oh:

yip.. it's not a motorhome ..

it's a money black hole, an expensive mistress, an addiction, a love affair.. all rolled into one .. don't we just luv em

 

[wizzer59]

Yea can't wait:thumb: --------------now just got to get rid of this house!!!!!!!!!

 

[wizzer59]

Hang on:Sad: I want to get rid of the house cos its a money pit

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[bashers]

I was up for buying a Sterling alternator controller till i read the piece on the smartguage web site
There are some excellent documentation on regarding batteries and charging that are well worth reading.

Back to the point, he does not advocate these controllers unless absolutely neccessary:

Some specialist alternators do not contain any form of regulation. They simply will not work without an external regulator. Obviously if your alternator is of this type then you have no choice, you need an external regulator.
Most alternators, however, already contain their own, in built, regulator. Yet even with this type, for historical reasons, a large proportion of people are under the impression that an external alternator controller will vastly improve their charge performance.
This, quite simply, is an outdated fallacy. It was true perhaps 15 years ago. It is no longer always the case. Times have changed, alternators have changed, batteries have changed.

Read the document for more enlightenment

 

[Tony Lee]

Jim said

The normal spit charge system at best only charges your battery to about 80% , so .. a 100ah battery would only be charged to 80ah giving a useful capacity (using best practice of not discharging below 50 % ) of 40 ah .. if fully charged that would increase to 50 ah , 25% more

and he is right - BUT he is even 'righter' than he said because of a typo.

The correct figures are

The normal spit charge system at best only charges your battery to about 80% , so .. a 100ah battery would only be charged to 80ah giving a useful capacity (using best practice of not discharging below 50 % ) of 30 ah .. if fully charged that would increase to 50 ah , 66% more.

I've seen other figures that claim maximum charge is more like 70% so Jim's comparison becomes even better.

Of course there are also figures that claim that a simple split charge relay will result in 100% charge - but Jim is talking about in the real world.

It is certainly worth anyone doing a lot of motorhoming fitting something a bit more sophisticated, especially if they are the usual "drive for a couple of hours, park for a night or two and have EHU every few days" users. Being able to recharge the battery while on the move could save spending a lot of money on a solar system.

Times have changed, alternators have changed, batteries have changed.

But unfortunately, Voltage Drop will always be with us.

 

[bashers]

Best of all worlds is install a little bit of switching to run your inverter off the engine supply (Yes, via a split-charge relay) and supply your good three-stage mains charger (do you have one?) from the inverter as you drive. Uses standard components that are usually in the motorhome anyway and there are minimal problems with voltage drop or low alternator voltage.

I'm not sure if i agree with you here.
Most alternators are in the region of 90A plus.
To achieve the benefit you mention, you'd most probably need to upgrade your charger even if it was a good one, to give 100 or more Amps and those cost hundreds

You'd also need to ensure you matched your charger to your alternator output leaving plenty in reserve.
What happens if you're in traffic, your revs are low and so are the leisure batteries? The inverter would then draw much more than the alternator could supply at low revs

Plus there is a little to much complication here with many relays required to ensure the inverter is switched on from the right source at the right time.

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[bashers]

But unfortunately, Voltage Drop will always be with us.

God bless the RV and its charging relay instead of diodes
The yanks got one thing right

 

[Tony Lee]

I'm not sure if i agree with you here.
Most alternators are in the region of 90A plus.

The problem is usually not one of alternator capacity, but of voltage drop. Doesn't matter to the alternator whether it is pumping 25 Amps into the battery direct, or pumping in 27 Amps into an inverter which feeds a mains charger which pumps 25 amps into the battery. In the first case, the voltage drop, together with the taper-charge characteristics of a normal alternator becomes the critical factor mean that the battery is never (meaning in a reasonable time) going to be taken to the point where the electrochemical reactions are going to be completed. The inverter charger system on the other hand, eliminates all these problems.

If you have a huge battery bank and take it well down, then of course 25amps is not going to be enough to recharge them in a reasonable time, but it is very rare for that size system to not have a large solar array to do the job properly anyway. Pumping 80A into a normal battery setup is going to do more harm than good - although I must admit to occasionally using my 300Amp 24V alternator to pump 160Amps into my 520Ah 24V AGM battery when I start off after a long layover in rainy weather, but that soon tapers off well before there is any chance of non-recombined gassing and within 30 minutes is below 100Amps, a figure OK according to specifications.

Split charging relays also introduce voltage drop. Standard silicone diode ones are the worst at around 0.7V, Schottke diode ones much better at around 0.2V and the old relay ones - perfect right? Sorry, they can be the worst. Fuses and every connector also add to the cable voltage drop and are wrongly ignored by everyone. There is only one way to eliminate voltage drop as a factor in correct charging of batteriesw and that is to have separate voltage sensing cables connected direct to the battery terminals. At the same time, fit battery temperature sensing as well.

 

[olley]

Hi modern alternators don't just come in the 13.8 volt variety anymore, so all this talk about not charging your batteries properly is not always totally correct.

The alternator on my winnie is set at 15.2v GM also fit a 14.8v and a 14.2v, I don't think they fit a 13.8v at all. My battery monitor system told me my batteries where being constantly charged in excess of 14.8v which did them in in 2 years, and has involved me in fitting diodes to the batteries to reduce this voltage to around 14.4v.

The alternator also has voltage sensing wire which goes into the ECU, this also works in reverse on tickover, telling the ECU if the alternator is suddenly put under load so that the ECU immediately increases the revs to compensate.

Olley

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