Add two stroke oil to your diesel fuel (1 Viewer)

[DBK]

Diesel is an oil, the article quoted suggests it has no useful lubricating properties and you have to add another oil in "homoeophatic" (sic) amounts - which if I am allowed to sit on the fence is just tosh in my view. If something like this really did work the car manufacturers would be telling their customers and bending the ears of the fuel manufacturers.

 

[Badknee]

Bugger the derv burners, I lost interest when the subject of two stroke engines and Castrol R came up, mmmmmm Yam RD250LC.

 

[gus-lopez]

Put the sulphur back simple.

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[peterc10]

Diesel is an oil, the article quoted suggests it has no useful lubricating properties and you have to add another oil in "homoeophatic" (sic) amounts - which

Worrying when a supposed authoritative body of research can't even spell homoeopathic correctly isn't it? The use of that word suggests that the amount should be "minute", which can hardly describe the suggested dosage. And it all seems to be based upon as much scientific evidence (or lack of it) as the medicine of the same name .

 

[timetochill]

If I put Castol "R" in. Will it smell like my old Bultaco trials bike!!!!!!!
Not bothered about the cost, just the smell would take me back to my yoooof!

Try Matlock Derbyshire any Sunday or even better bankhols Castrol R smell all day beats channel no 5 or anything else

 

[DuxDeluxe]

2-stroke oil and diesel
To all interested:
due to the pollution control measures of the EC diesel-oil is nearly sulphur free and contains up to 5% of bio-diesel. Sulphur has the property to grease the high pressure injection pump and the injectors. Without sulphur, the reduced greasing property of the new diesel has already shown negativ impacts on the long-term stability of the injectors and the high pressure pump. The pump manufacturers have tried to react by lining the moving parts of the pumps with teflon or other suitable material.

However, the long term stability is still not achieved as with the old (sulphor contained) diesel.
The engine-research centre of a well known German car manufacurer has conducted some long term tests of diesel additives to find out whether any one of them will have an impact on the long term reliability of the diesel engine components. This introduction to explain were my information comes from.
The results of this research: any diesel additive of any manufacturer presently on the market is not worth the money!
BUT: 2-stroke oil, which we use in our motor saws, lawn mower or in 2-stroke motor engines has shown to have an extreme positive impact on diesel engines, if such 2-stroke oil is added to the diesel in a homoeophatic dosis of 1:200. In practical terms: 0,300 litre of 2-stroke oil into the 70l diesel tank. The 2-stroke oil will be absorbed by the diesel (emulsion) and grease every moving part of the high pressure pump and the injectors.
Besides this, the 2-stroke oil will keep the diesel engine clean, as it burnes cleaner as the diesel itself.
In other words, the 2-stroke oil has a much lower ash-content as diesel, when burned. This proven fact delays the DPF (diesel particulate (soot) filter) to clogg, and the "burn free" process of the DPF will be much less.

One more information: in Germany they have to present our cars every 2 years to the TUV -Technical Supervision Organisation - who will check, amongs others, the pollution of petrol and diesel engines.
The measured cloud-factor of a diesel engine without use of 2-stroke oil has been 0,95.

The same factor with the use of 2-stroke oil has been 0,47 - reduction of nearly half of the soot particles.
Besides this, the use of 2-stroke oil in the diesel will increase the milage by 3-5%.

Sorry - that simply isn't correct - have a look at @Geo 's post. The first part is correct in that the sulphur was an excellent lubricant, but it doesn't mention that bio additives as required by EN 590 spec have good lubrication properties. Furthermore, part of the EN 590 spec is lubricity test.

All engines are designed around the modern fuel specs and both manufacturers and oil companies spend millions every year on developing and testing both engines and fuels to remove the need for adding snake oil to fuel.

It is an urban legend

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[Littlewheels]

If I put Castol "R" in. Will it smell like my old Bultaco trials bike!!!!!!!
Not bothered about the cost, just the smell would take me back to my yoooof!

Personally I was an Ossa man! Had about 5 and 1 Bultaco should have kept them? Great investment" now" still have an RTL apologies to OP for going off thread.

 

[DuxDeluxe]

Bugger the derv burners, I lost interest when the subject of two stroke engines and Castrol R came up, mmmmmm Yam RD250LC.

My cousin has a RD500 GP replica in his garage. Doing nothing but he won't sell it to us to rebuild

 

[Charlie]

This old chestnut has raised its head on may many forums. Would I use two stroke oil in my three diesel vehicles ? Never in a far king million years.
Engines in modern diesels are extremely complex devices these days. The pumps for instance run at extremely high pressures and the delicate seals are designed to be lubricated by the diesel fuel Not any other types of lubricant. The wrong lubricant can cause catastrophic failure and the cost would be very high.
With again the later diesels that are often called "Common Rail" usually have DPF filters. The engine is designed to burn diesel Not two stroke oil. Burn it by all means but it could cause the expensive DPFs to clog up and fail. An engine that does not have an efficient burn can carbon up. This again can block the EGR valves and again pass material into the DPF that it is not designed to cope with...

There is a marked difference between the older type of diesel engines and the current Common rail kit we have now. You could if you wanted get away with burning chip oil in an old Transit van with the old style engines. Do that to a TDCI (Turbo Diesel Commonrail Injection) and you will destroy its pump within no time at all.

Why on earth would we put two stroke oil in our tanks ? Could it be because some geezer on the tinterweb said its a good plan ?

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[Gromett]

I also vote for the view that this is bunk. I wouldn't risk it on my van...

As for being able to tell the difference I would bet that this is a prime example of perception bias. Unless this was scientifically and rigorously tested and proven beyond rounding errors I will not believe it.

There is literally billions spent on improving fuels efficiency and other positive attributes. If this was a real and quantifiable effect then diesel producers would include the active components of 2 stroke fuel in their products at the pumps. It would be in their own best interest to do so as they could advertise a % improvement in life expectancy of the diesel engine, spout it's cleaning performance and mpg improvements etc. They don't which means either it doesn't work or they haven't tested it. Which is the more likely possibility. I bet they have tried it.... That just leaves it doesn't work.

 

[Peter JohnsCross MH]

Geo says it all, listen to the man who makes his living servicing engines

Peter

 

[Glandwr]

Best additive to use with diesel? Heating oil at a 10 to 1 ratio! You will have saved enough before any damage to the engine to buy a new one

Dick

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[DuxDeluxe]

This old chestnut has raised its head on may many forums. Would I use two stroke oil in my three diesel vehicles ? Never in a far king million years.
Engines in modern diesels are extremely complex devices these days. The pumps for instance run at extremely high pressures and the delicate seals are designed to be lubricated by the diesel fuel Not any other types of lubricant. The wrong lubricant can cause catastrophic failure and the cost would be very high.
With again the later diesels that are often called "Common Rail" usually have DPF filters. The engine is designed to burn diesel Not two stroke oil. Burn it by all means but it could cause the expensive DPFs to clog up and fail. An engine that does not have an efficient burn can carbon up. This again can block the EGR valves and again pass material into the DPF that it is not designed to cope with...

There is a marked difference between the older type of diesel engines and the current Common rail kit we have now. You could if you wanted get away with burning chip oil in an old Transit van with the old style engines. Do that to a TDCI (Turbo Diesel Commonrail Injection) and you will destroy its pump within no time at all.

Why on earth would we put two stroke oil in our tanks ? Could it be because some geezer on the tinterweb said its a good plan ?

I also vote for the view that this is bunk. I wouldn't risk it on my van...

As for being able to tell the difference I would bet that this is a prime example of perception bias. Unless this was scientifically and rigorously tested and proven beyond rounding errors I will not believe it.

There is literally billions spent on improving fuels efficiency and other positive attributes. If this was a real and quantifiable effect then diesel producers would include the active components of 2 stroke fuel in their products at the pumps. It would be in their own best interest to do so as they could advertise a % improvement in life expectancy of the diesel engine, spout it's cleaning performance and mpg improvements etc. They don't which means either it doesn't work or they haven't tested it. Which is the more likely possibility. I bet they have tried it.... That just leaves it doesn't work.

l

Well, fuel quality and testing of the same was my job for many years until stopping work in March this year. My ex employers have fuel testing facilities in many countries and work very closely with both the oil companies and the engine manufacturers.

As per both the above - you can do it if you want to but when it all goes pear shaped don't expect too much sympathy from the vehicle manufacturer. They can and do test the fuel and the oil to see what happened, not because they care about you, but because they want to avoid systematic problems and testing the fuel and oil is exactly like taking a blood test. Even in very low parts per million they can see what is in there

 

[DuxDeluxe]

Best additive to use with diesel? Heating oil at a 10 to 1 ratio! You will have saved enough before any damage to the engine to buy a new one

Dick

Nice one! Would that also include the costs of the prosecution from HMRC if they ever find out?
https://www.gov.uk/government/publi...icles/excise-notice-75-fuel-for-road-vehicles

Heating oil is a heavier oil than EN 590 and you might find some low temperature or gumming issues.

 

[TheBig1]

l

Well, fuel quality and testing of the same was my job for many years until stopping work in March this year. My ex employers have fuel testing facilities in many countries and work very closely with both the oil companies and the engine manufacturers.

As per both the above - you can do it if you want to but when it all goes pear shaped don't expect too much sympathy from the vehicle manufacturer. They can and do test the fuel and the oil to see what happened, not because they care about you, but because they want to avoid systematic problems and testing the fuel and oil is exactly like taking a blood test. Even in very low parts per million they can see what is in there

and there folks is an expert professional opinion. thankyou David

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[DuxDeluxe]

and there folks is an expert professional opinion. thankyou David

Why thank you

An "ex" is a has-been and a "spurt" is a drip under pressure so I qualify on both counts there. Seriously, there is no real reason for a modern diesel driver to deviate from pump fuel, with the caveat that before MOT time there is no harm in using a one time dose of Forte diesel treatment (other brands are available) and also the extra detergents in the so called super fuels which can help keep the system running well.

 

[Charlie]

and there folks is an expert professional opinion. thankyou David

Plus 1 ...

 

[GWAYGWAY]

Best additive to use with diesel? Heating oil at a 10 to 1 ratio! You will have saved enough before any damage to the engine to buy a new one

Dick

It is marked with chemical markers and it is 22sec gas oil which is paraffin and a scourer not a lubricant, it does burn cleaner but seizes the pump . Avtur is the same thing and it requires added lubricant when added to aircraft diesel engines, so two stroke oil is the best you can get for them to save the pumps.

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[DuxDeluxe]

It is marked with chemical markers and it is 22sec gas oil which is paraffin and a scourer not a lubricant, it does burn cleaner but seizes the pump . Avtur is the same thing and it requires added lubricant when added to aircraft diesel engines, so two stroke oil is the best you can get for them to save the pumps.

Yes, there are several types of fuel marker in use - details in the link that I gave. I think that Dick's post was a little bit tongue in cheek. I always thought that heating oil (termed 2 oil by the yanks) was a heavier fraction than the road fuel, but maybe we are talking about different things here. Certainly the kerosene cut will have zero lubricating properties without additives

Avtur - Jet fuel - aviation turbine fuel is probably the most tightly regulated and tested common fuel on the planet; the regulations and testing/recertification regimes are very strict.

 

[gus-lopez]

Best additive to use with diesel? Heating oil at a 10 to 1 ratio! You will have saved enough before any damage to the engine to buy a new one

Dick

Bloke I've known for 30+ years sells vans & pick ups. Fills them from the heating tank when fuel is needed .

It is marked with chemical markers and it is 22sec gas oil which is paraffin and a scourer not a lubricant, it does burn cleaner but seizes the pump . Avtur is the same thing and it requires added lubricant when added to aircraft diesel engines, so two stroke oil is the best you can get for them to save the pumps.

Fortunately over here 'heating oil' is red diesel. Gasoleo B.

 

[Tea Bag]

Hi gus-lopez.
Should you ever be in Santa Comba Dao and need a stop over....... i have bought a Husqvarna ? Chain saw............ From tomorrow..... Follow the smell of "Castrol 'R" for EHU/water and Elsan/cassette empty point ( "Super Cr****r ?)
Tea Bag.
PS. Conde Noble vino tinto,is/was, 57 cents a litre at Lidle BRING A TWELVE PACK !!

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[Mr B]

Try Matlock Derbyshire any Sunday or even better bankhols Castrol R smell all day beats channel no 5 or anything else

Been there and ooooo the smell

 

[GWAYGWAY]

First world War pilots NEVER suffered from constipation for two reasons
1 Castor oil, sprayed all over them from the engines.
2 scared sh***less from the war flying.
3 probably didn't last long enough to get bound up.

 

[Derbyshire wanderer]

For all you oil burners out there, here is a gold plated tip.

Add about 500ml. to your fuel tank of two stroke oil when you fill up.

It then will help to clean the gunk out of the engine ports and generally improve the engine condition, but you have to continue doing it to feel the benefits.

Scary advice or what?
Someone will be wanting to test this 'gold plated tip' and learn that all that glitters is probably the most expensive Pyrite they ever had!
Modern engines (including VW) have had lots of r&d and money to ensure they run perfectly on standard pump fuel. The older ones have either adapted over time to the modern fuels or gave up the ghost long ago but giving these a good clean out can only be a big risk.
Added the the high cost of two stroke, even the maths is flawed.
Not wanting to be controversial but who in a shed can come up with proven theories that they can beat the manufacturers at their own game?

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[DuxDeluxe]

Scary advice or what?
Someone will be wanting to test this 'gold plated tip' and learn that all that glitters is probably the most expensive Pyrite they ever had!
Modern engines (including VW) have had lots of r&d and money to ensure they run perfectly on standard pump fuel. The older ones have either adapted over time to the modern fuels or gave up the ghost long ago but giving these a good clean out can only be a big risk.
Added the the high cost of two stroke, even the maths is flawed.
Not wanting to be controversial but who in a shed can come up with proven theories that they can beat the manufacturers at their own game?

Not controversial at all....... you are absolute right

 

[Charlie]

If VW labs are able to create a system that can cheat emmissions standards and tests, then they are clever enough to come up with a solution. They still have not done so though.

adding 2 stroke oil to a modern common rail diesel engine like the ducato 2006> is very foolish and expensive to repair. it makes more sense to fill the tank at least every 3rd fill with premium fuel including more detergents to keep the system clean

I use nothing but premium diesel. I used to do 50 to 60 thousand miles a year mostly in a 2.2 litre diesel and did one particular 360 mile route several times each month.
I was getting better MPG using V power against the shit sold at supermarkets. Plus less injector rattle.
Why would I use anything else ?
Top quality fuels have additives that make up for the Bio content that is mandatory put into all diesel fuels. It helps prevent mucking up the DPF and keeps or at least helps to keep the EGR valve clean. If the EGR gets restricted your MPG will suffer.
Frankly if you can't afford the extra 4 quid to fill the big tank on a MH which you will get returned anyway in MPG gains perhaps a tent is in order ?

 

[gus-lopez]

Hi gus-lopez.
Should you ever be in Santa Comba Dao and need a stop over....... i have bought a Husqvarna ? Chain saw............ From tomorrow..... Follow the smell of "Castrol 'R" for EHU/water and Elsan/cassette empty point ( "Super Cr****r ?)
Tea Bag.
PS. Conde Noble vino tinto,is/was, 57 cents a litre at Lidle BRING A TWELVE PACK !!

I'll keep it in mind.

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[EssexBoy]

Top quality fuels have additives

2-stroke oil additives?

 

[Manic]

If I put Castol "R" in. Will it smell like my old Bultaco trials bike!!!!!!!
Not bothered about the cost, just the smell would take me back to my yoooof!

And if your unlucky it will start up running backwards like the Bultaco's did

 

[haganap]

Why on earth would anyone listen to forum experts on this?
A great tip...
A terrible tip...

Engine manufacturers spend a fortune on getting the most out of an engine in terms of economy against performance but with longevity being the end game.

Fuel companies spend a fortune on attempting to produce the most cleanest and efficient fuels of all time to maximise their profits. .

Why any would be mechanic would think they can alter this is beyond me...but when the article came up previously it spoke about engine life being cut short by 20% so my merc diesel is now only good enough for 240000 not 300k ..dam..

So in other words if you belive in it...

You keep doing it my friend but mind those pretty fairies at the bottom of the garden. .

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