A Step To Far ? Be Afraid Be Very Afraid!!!! (1 Viewer)

Geo

Trader - Funster
Jul 29, 2007
11,757
14,563
Mansfield,Notts
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35
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Autotrail Tracker FB
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45 +years with breaks
New Braking System Coming Soon you saw it here!!!!!!
first maybe you didnt but it looks good

Bosch world renowned Brake component manufacturer is in collusion with Alpha a
a very close cousin to our Fiat Mo Homes to introduce for want of a better name fly by wire WiFi/Bluetooth braking systems:Eeek:
Operated by electric calipers BUT fear not :party2:there is to be a small but hopefully effective Hydraulic back up system :clap2:
We just have to hope the fly by wire throttle system fails before the brakes:pray:
my question is

WHY???????
 
Aug 6, 2013
11,931
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Kendal, Cumbria
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New Braking System Coming Soon you saw it here!!!!!!
first maybe you didnt but it looks good

Bosch world renowned Brake component manufacturer is in collusion with Alpha a
a very close cousin to our Fiat Mo Homes to introduce for want of a better name fly by wire WiFi/Bluetooth braking systems:Eeek:
Operated by electric calipers BUT fear not :party2:there is to be a small but hopefully effective Hydraulic back up system :clap2:
We just have to hope the fly by wire throttle system fails before the brakes:pray:
my question is

WHY???????
Presumably for more accurate and simpler application of the brakes by the various stability systems, simpler and cheaper driver controls, and driverless application in an emergency. I don't understand the reference to Bluetooth / WiFi - either it's fly-by-wire or it isn't.
 
Apr 18, 2009
3,569
3,367
Englishman in Mid Wales
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6,340
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Hymer B584, A Class
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Not long enough!
It'll happen, neater, saves weight, money, bicycles have cabless gears why not, it's progress (y) I personally cannot wait for driverless cars, no idiots brilliant (y)

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Geo

Geo

Trader - Funster
Jul 29, 2007
11,757
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Autotrail Tracker FB
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45 +years with breaks
Fraid I cant agree when a new system is invented and they leave the old system in place for backup
you call that progress:rolleyes:
DRIVERLESS CARS!!!! and they leave the steering wheel and pedals in;) What for??:doh::rofl::rofl::rofl:
Didnt get a free Atlas wiv me Sat Nav, Now that's progress:drinks:
 

Popeye

Deceased RIP
Sep 5, 2011
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psychic power..

I used to think "I hope I stop in time" and I did... just.

With you there JJ, on my last van the Geist I had a failure in the Servo whilst driving down a hill towards Wissant, of course immediate thought is "Brake Failure" but of course all that has failed is the Servo Assistance, so treading harder on the pedal is all that is needed but I used to couple that with prayers and thought projection or psychic power.

When I put it in the garage they could find 'No Fault".
 

hilldweller

LIFE MEMBER
Dec 5, 2008
605
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From Aug 2007
Fraid I cant agree when a new system is invented and they leave the old system in place for backup you call that progress:rolleyes:

I'd call it a good idea.

When you think of the complexity of an ABS system an electric one does sound attractive to a university graduate with no experience of The Real World.

Brakes will be A Thing Of The Past when each wheel carries an electric motor. Four brushless motors instead of drive shafts, CV joints, diffs, brakes, clutch, gearboxe, gear linkages.
 

pappajohn

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Aug 26, 2007
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Maybe Bosch have fallen out of love with the Girling and Lockheed brake fluid plants.
I guess leccy service brakes are only one step from leccy handbrakes....it had to happen eventually.

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Aug 6, 2013
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Maybe Bosch have fallen out of love with the Girling and Lockheed brake fluid plants.
I guess leccy service brakes are only one step from leccy handbrakes....it had to happen eventually.
It is slightly old school to be controlling distant parts of the car via Bowden cables. On a more practical level my Mother, who is still a careful and pretty safe driver, cannot pull hard enough on the mechanical handbrake lever to hold the car on a hill. If I set the brake just sufficiently to adequately hold the car she cannot release it. An electric brake would alleviate both problems for her. In the meantime she leaves it in gear.
 
Aug 6, 2013
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I'd call it a good idea.

When you think of the complexity of an ABS system an electric one does sound attractive to a university graduate with no experience of The Real World.
............... and to me and I'm not a graduate. You hit the nail on the head - electro-hydraulic ABS is simple in principle but a nightmare in reality. And I'm someone who has never felt the need for it anyway :).

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hilldweller

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From Aug 2007
... And I'm someone who has never felt the need for it anyway :).

Oh I did in France in Aug, on my bike, in town, about 30 mph when a French plonker pulled out right in front of me. I just braked as hard as I could squeeze and stopped dead. Chances are, without ABS, in such a panic I'd would have locked the front and gone down.
 
Aug 6, 2013
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Oh I did in France in Aug, on my bike, in town, about 30 mph when a French plonker pulled out right in front of me. I just braked as hard as I could squeeze and stopped dead. Chances are, without ABS, in such a panic I'd would have locked the front and gone down.
I've never experienced it on a bike - most of my experience was '60s & '70s when a front that could be locked was a luxury. I've done it though most notably in France on a sweeping bend, well leaned over, when I came across stationary traffic at a rural level crossing. I stayed upright but not pointing entirely in the direction of travel ;).

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Feb 22, 2008
12,249
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Not keen on the Fiat arrangement when fitted with tiptronic , no backup for conventional handbrake on steep slope, normal auto boxes at least have a park position.
Fiat do however supply chocks, wow :rolleyes:
 

hilldweller

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Dec 5, 2008
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most of my experience was '60s & '70s when a front that could be locked was a luxury..

Brakes and tyres are in a different universe now. In the dry just two fingers on the front brake can throw you over the handlebars, so much grip the back wheel just rotates round the front spindle. Simple ABS won't stop that but the Bosch ABS now being fitted to top bikes might because of it's 4 axis sensor module. It will even back off the brakes when you are banked over with less grip.

ABS is just an insurance policy, when it pays off you think "good investment". All bikes over 125cc have to have ABS from next year.
 
Aug 6, 2013
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Not keen on the Fiat arrangement when fitted with tiptronic , no backup for conventional handbrake on steep slope, normal auto boxes at least have a park position.
Fiat do however supply chocks, wow :rolleyes:
From their user instructions:


PARKING THE VEHICLE


To park safely, it is essential to engage 1st

gear or reverse (R) gear with your foot


on the brake pedal. If parking on a slope,

operate the brake pedal. It is also essential

to wait until the gear engaged disappears

from the reconfigurable multifunction

display before releasing the brake

pedal.

IMPORTANT NEVER leave your vehicle

with the gearbox in neutral (N).

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Feb 22, 2008
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From their user instructions:


PARKING THE VEHICLE


To park safely, it is essential to engage 1st

gear or reverse (R) gear with your foot


on the brake pedal. If parking on a slope,

operate the brake pedal. It is also essential

to wait until the gear engaged disappears

from the reconfigurable multifunction

display before releasing the brake

pedal.

IMPORTANT NEVER leave your vehicle

with the gearbox in neutral (N).


Hi Tony,
You will see I mentioned tiptronic , an auto box, my point was it cannot be left in gear.
I have checked my user manual and although quite comprehensive it doesnt mention parking with auto box.
 

jonandshell

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Dec 12, 2010
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Mmm, electric motors, regenerative braking, pulse modulated electric brakes........ cars are becoming more like forktrucks every day!

All you need now is an eastern European chauffer and the transformation from car to forklift will be complete!
 

hilldweller

LIFE MEMBER
Dec 5, 2008
605
36,106
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Mmm, electric motors, regenerative braking, pulse modulated electric brakes........ cars are becoming more like forktrucks every day!

All you need now is an eastern European chauffer and the transformation from car to forklift will be complete!

So electric brakes are proven in fork lifts ?

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jonandshell

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So electric brakes are proven in fork lifts ?

Yes, although the modulation needed at the slower speeds is easier to control I imagine than on something doing over 100 mph.
Most braking is regenerative up until the point of nearly stopping although our 4 way machines have modulated brake on the non driven wheels.
With the added inputs of wheels sensors, I imagine the car manufacturers will do a good job on the control side.
Our electric machines use a motor speed/current monitoring algorithm to determine wheelspin, skidding and even impacts.
 

jonandshell

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How do these brakes work ? Friction controlled by motor or a motor used in reverse ?

Both.
The motor is controlled by its inverter to provide retardation via battery recharging. Kinetic energy is dumped as charge back into the battery. When braking is required at slower speed, an electromagnetic brake is applied.
The brake pack is failsafe in that it is energised to release.
For the modulated electric load wheel brakes, they are applied by a permanent magnet. The magnet is de-energised by a current applied to an adjacent coil. The braking force can also be amplified by inversion of that current to double the braking effort. This is controlled by high frequency modulation from MOSFETS (transistors).

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Aug 6, 2013
11,931
16,514
Kendal, Cumbria
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Le-Voyageur RX958 Pl
Exp
since 1999
Hi Tony,
You will see I mentioned tiptronic , an auto box, my point was it cannot be left in gear.
I have checked my user manual and although quite comprehensive it doesnt mention parking with auto box.
That instruction referred to the (robotised manual) autobox?
 

Jaws

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Sep 26, 2008
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Wellll we have had fly by wire throttles for several years..
And come to think of it.. Fly By Wire planes are hardly new..

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