A Jimny on an A Frame? Any Issues?

Wissel

Wissel

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Happily, Claira has decided she is going to do her driving test. This is great news as it will give her more freedom without being dependent on me (healthy IMO) and will mean I don't have to stop work to go shopping etc.

We had been thinking of getting a car anyway, as it's tricky sometimes just parking our Boxer places. It will be harder again with the Vario. Parking space has been the issue until now, as our work unit only has two parking bays and I try not to take up the communal spaces to often. But it looks like we are expanding very soon and this will no longer be an issue.

We have decided to get an older Suzuki Jimny, that I'll kind of restore. I have always loved these little 4x4's and although never owned one, I've spent a lot of time driving them. Thankfully, Claira really likes them as well. It's main uses will be the weekly shop, or popping out to get parts (good size boot with seats down and will have a roof rack), or darting around locally when away, leaving the Vario on site. It will also get a roof tent and camping pod in time, to enable us to stay at far more remote places for the odd night.

So the question is, is the Jimny okay on an A-Frame?

The plan for the Vario is to be able to either have the motorbike rack fitted (which Northernraider already had made), or a tow bar that I'll get Watling to fabricate. We will probably get a trailer at some point in the future, but an A-Frame would be far more convenient for now.

I've done a bit or reading and I'm aware that the Jimny "might" need free wheeling hubs fitted, but these are cheap so not an issue.

Can anyone see any other issues with towing a Jimny?

Also, I'd of course want as good an A-Frame as possible. Any recommendations on which system would be best?

Finally, our plan is to finish the Vario at around 5T and then have it downplated to 6.5T. This will give me a towing capacity of 1.75T with my licence.
 
This question was asked some time ago.
Mrs Poppycamper has had 2 Jimnys in the past and memory is a bit groppy but does Jimny not have free wheeling hubs at front that are pneumatically engaged.
HOWEVER I am sure the Instructions for ours was very clear that the vehicle should NOT be flat towed and needed to have rear wheels on a bogie.. something, I believe to do with drive train lubrication.
However certain Funsters on here disagreed with me and I cannot rmbr if there was a definitive answer.
 
I've no wish to put the fly in the ointment here dave but if you're looking to tow with the vario I would speak to Watling etc before you put any floor down or fittings inside the van.

The main issue being that the chassis stops 4 foot from the rear of that van and the frame I had welded in providing a floor and to attach the bike carrier on to is only welded to the body structure of the van and not to the chassis. I never intended to tow with it so it wasn't an issue and the rear frame would easily cope with carrying a 300kg motorbike on it ....but I'm not sure it could take the weight of a car being towed without possibly distorting the body.

I think it would require chassis extensions welded on to it which although possible could be awkward and expensive.

Not saying it can't be done as anything is possible with vehicles if you get the right skilled person involved.

But it would be easier to do while there's no floor etc in the van so they can see where they would have to fit it. The other issue being the body is independent of the chassis on these so there's a series of big rubber bushes that mount the body to the chassis and allow it to move independently.
 
Northernraider said:
I've no wish to put the fly in the ointment here dave but if you're looking to tow with the vario I would speak to Watling etc before you put any floor down or fittings inside the van.

The main issue being that the chassis stops 4 foot from the rear of that van and the frame I had welded in providing a floor and to attach the bike carrier on to is only welded to the body structure of the van and not to the chassis. I never intended to tow with it so it wasn't an issue and the rear frame would easily cope with carrying a 300kg motorbike on it ....but I'm not sure it could take the weight of a car being towed without possibly distorting the body.

I think it would require chassis extensions welded on to it which although possible could be awkward and expensive.

Not saying it can't be done as anything is possible with vehicles if you get the right skilled person involved.

But it would be easier to do while there's no floor etc in the van so they can see where they would have to fit it. The other issue being the body is independent of the chassis on these so there's a series of big rubber bushes that mount the body to the chassis and allow it to move independently.
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Thanks for letting me know Tam. I'll have a word with Watling and see what they suggest (y)

I've just had a look and can see what you mean. It doesn't look a massive job to extend the chassis though. I'll see what they say.
 
Wissel said:
Thanks for letting me know Tam. I'll have a word with Watling and see what they suggest (y)

I've just had a look and can see what you mean. It doesn't look a massive job to extend the chassis though. I'll see what they say.
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No and I think it can be done no probs ...and if they copy the original chassis to body rubber mounts they could also secure it to the existing frame for added strength. I only ever intended to carry a bike on it so I didn't have the chassis extended.

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Never had a Jimny but ran plenty of earlier sj's in local 4x4 competitions ,had a great laugh and often kicked land rovers asses.



I think the problem with flat towing a Jimny is the wierd transfer case arrangement, they are permanent 4x4 until the drive get to the aforementioned pneumatically operated front hubs, so when towing, the rear wheels will be spinning not only the rear prop, but also the transfer case, the front prop and the front halfshafts and cv joints!
Whereas, the sj could be relatively easily be modified to drop the transfer box into neutral, and I even modified mine to run manual locking hubs on the rear axle for when I ran a welded diff, allowing me to run it in front wheel drive on road when required 😎
 
Wissel said:
Finally, our plan is to finish the Vario at around 5T and then have it downplated to 6.5T. This will give me a towing capacity of 1.75T with my licence.
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It’s not clear to me how down-plating increases your towing capacity?

Your towing limit (structural issues aside) is given by GTW minus your ‘actual’ vehicle weight. Some believe that it is given by GTW minus GVW but that isn’t the case.

Ian

Edit: Just realised that you mention your licence and that 6.5t + 1.75t = 8.25t.
 
Can't see post #3 so guessing he got me on ignore.
 
Bobby-gg said:
I think the problem with flat towing a Jimny is the wierd transfer case arrangement, they are permanent 4x4 until the drive get to the aforementioned pneumatically operated front hubs, so when towing, the rear wheels will be spinning not only the rear prop, but also the transfer case, the front prop and the front halfshafts and cv joints!
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It seems this is the biggest issue. I could get a pre2005 model that had a manual drive shift with a neutral, but that doesn't have ABS and I don't like the idea of Claira driving without it.

Maybe a trailer is the answer? Not sure.

On top of this issue, I've just heard back from Watling. I explained what I needed doing to the Vario chassis and asked if I could send some detailed images and measurements for a quote. The answer was the workshop has closed permanently and the company will close at the end of September. Such a shame :(

For anyone that might want one of their excellent (and great value) scooter racks, they have around 10 left in stock. Best be quick.

Does anyone know of a reputable and reasonably priced fabricator, ideally not too far from Lincolnshire?

The other option is I go back to plan A and just have a motorbike on the back.

I could still get a Jimny for Claira as we still need a second vehicle. Not as much fun though if we can't take it with us.
 
Just a thought re the possible roof tent for the Jimmny. Can the roof carry the weight of two people in the tent. Most cars we have had had a max roof bar weight of 50kg, that’s one wife OR half of me🤣

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philann said:
Just a thought re the possible roof tent for the Jimmny. Can the roof carry the weight of two people in the tent. Most cars we have had had a max roof bar weight of 50kg, that’s one wife OR half of me🤣
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That's a good question :LOL:

I've seen loads with roof-tents fitted, but not seen the actual figures.

I've just been looking at images from when Northernraider started building the back (so pleased you took so many Tam, makes life easy sometimes) and it doesn't look an easy job extending the chassis. There's a lot going on around the end and I think it would be very expensive.

This coupled with not being able to use the services of the only company I know that I'd trust, I don't think it's worth the hassle.

So I think the tow bar idea is dropped. I'll carry a motorbike on the back.

But, we still need a car and I still like the idea of building a small Overlander and love the Jimny. But how usable would a small Overlander be in this area? Not very I think.

More thought needed I think.
 
bigtwin said:
It’s not clear to me how down-plating increases your towing capacity?

Your towing limit (structural issues aside) is given by GTW minus your ‘actual’ vehicle weight. Some believe that it is given by GTW minus GVW but that isn’t the case.

Ian

Edit: Just realised that you mention your licence and that 6.5t + 1.75t = 8.25t.
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Yes the vario I now own is 6.6tonne gvw but train weight is 11 tonne.

It would be really really slow though 🤣🤣
 
bigtwin said:
It’s not clear to me how down-plating increases your towing capacity?

Your towing limit (structural issues aside) is given by GTW minus your ‘actual’ vehicle weight. Some believe that it is given by GTW minus GVW but that isn’t the case.

Ian

Edit: Just realised that you mention your licence and that 6.5t + 1.75t = 8.25t.
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When I uprated my Hymer the towing capacity went down by the 350kg the van weight went up.
 
Manic said:
When I uprated my Hymer the towing capacity went down by the 350kg the van weight went up.
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Yes my euramobil is the same . It is 4500gvw with 5500 train weight . I can up the van to 5000gvw with no probs but could then only tow 500kg if I needed to.
 
Manic said:
When I uprated my Hymer the towing capacity went down by the 350kg the van weight went up.
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The delta between the GTW and the GVW went down, for sure. However, your gross train weight remains unchanged. This means that, if you ran your vehicle at very much less than its GVW you’d still be able to tow more than GTW minus GVW.

Northernraider said:
Yes my euramobil is the same . It is 4500gvw with 5500 train weight . I can up the van to 5000gvw with no probs but could then only tow 500kg if I needed to.
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No, provided that you ran the van at, for example, 4500Kg then you could still tow 1000Kg. You are not limited to towing 500Kg if you updated the van to 5000Kg.
There are only two (axles aside) limits that you mustn’t exceed, GVW and GTW. You cannot be prosecuted for towing more than GTW minus GVW if you are compliant with both of those.👍

Ian

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bigtwin said:
The delta between the GTW and the GVW went down, for sure. However, your gross train weight remains unchanged. This means that, if you ran your vehicle at very much less than its GVW you’d still be able to tow more than GTW minus GVW.



No, provided that you ran the van at, for example, 4500Kg then you could still tow 1000Kg. You are not limited to towing 500Kg if you updated the van to 5000Kg.
There are only two (axles aside) limits that you mustn’t exceed, GVW and GTW. You cannot be prosecuted for towing more than GTW minus GVW if you are compliant with both of those.👍

Ian
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Yeah that's what I meant ..if I uprated mine to 5000kg it would be because I needed the extra payload.
 
Wissel said:
But, we still need a car and I still like the idea of building a small Overlander and love the Jimny.
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I believe you build/convert specials. I built a SCAMP kit car with a 998cc Mini Cooper engine back in the early 80's for transporting my goats. ;)
Great fun.

Scamp4.JPG






Scamp9.JPG
 
Wissel said:
That's a good question :LOL:

I've seen loads with roof-tents fitted, but not seen the actual figures.

I've just been looking at images from when Northernraider started building the back (so pleased you took so many Tam, makes life easy sometimes) and it doesn't look an easy job extending the chassis. There's a lot going on around the end and I think it would be very expensive.

This coupled with not being able to use the services of the only company I know that I'd trust, I don't think it's worth the hassle.

So I think the tow bar idea is dropped. I'll carry a motorbike on the back.

But, we still need a car and I still like the idea of building a small Overlander and love the Jimny. But how usable would a small Overlander be in this area? Not very I think.

More thought needed I think.
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I've been considering taking something to Morocco next time but defo on a trailer I'm not a fan of A frames. the original Jimney is apparently more comfortable at 40 than 50, so would need the later one for modern traffic
 
I used to tow (A frame) a Suzuki SJ410 which had manual front axle hub disconnect and it HAD to be disconnected or the 4WD transfer box would 'wind up' and cause damage to the drive train.
The SJ410/SJ416 was the fore-runner to the Jimmy.

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A trailer would be a good idea. But where to keep the trailer at the unit when the car isn't on it :( Ends up being 3 parking spots.
 
Gromett said:
A trailer would be a good idea. But where to keep the trailer at the unit when the car isn't on it :( Ends up being 3 parking spots.
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Unless I suddenly had two units ;)

Anyway, no tow-bar = no trailer, so not going to happen sadly. We can get by with a motorbike when away in the van, we have for the last few years (y)

Still need a car though of some description.
 
Wissel said:
Unless I suddenly had two units ;)

Anyway, no tow-bar = no trailer, so not going to happen sadly. We can get by with a motorbike when away in the van, we have for the last few years (y)

Still need a car though of some description.
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2 units? You had better get your arse over here for a weekend of beer so we can catch up :p
 
Gromett said:
2 units? You had better get your arse over here for a weekend of beer so we can catch up :p
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You have no idea how much I'd like to do that Karl. Been a rough few months (been ill) and could really do with a break. Soon, I hope (y)

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Personally I wouldn't trust the structure of a jimny. The A frame may pull the car apart.
 
jezport said:
Personally I wouldn't trust the structure of a jimny. The A frame may pull the car apart.
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Again, can't comment on jimny's but I'm fairly sure that the chassis is as good as the sj chassis, I've had many a land rover hung off the front winch of mine and I'd trust the galvanised Suzuki chassis over the land rovers paper thin chassis any day!
 
Theconly xar we have had serious rust on was a Grand Vitara. Would never have another Suzuki.
 

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