A frame ...not happy at all (1 Viewer)

[PeteH]

The Bowden cable should have been secured with proper metal clips to something solid like a bit of the metal bodywork. No way cable ties should ever have been used.

Sadly, this example reinforces why A Frames are highly questionable because companies are doing things completely unregulated without following the sort of standards the vehicle manufacturers have to follow.

IF so, Why are there no recordable cases of endangerment , as a result. (Unlike the numbers of "safe" Caravans / Trailers which wreck every Year?).

Excellent Mike, but how many other firms do the same?

VERY, VERY, few.

These apprentices wouldn't end up on the tools by the sound of it Cornish boy.
It's plumbers, electricians, carpenters, mechanics, welders, bricklayers etc. We just rely on cheap labour from abroad, or 5 minute wonders trained on some government course. I have worked with them, in the main they are crap.

There ARE NO PROPER apprenticeships, to-day. There are Training courses, for just about everything. My apprenticeship was a FULL 5 years. My Father`s generation did 7!. They even used the Wording "Modern Apprenticeships" now!.

 

[Lenny HB]

To be fair ISO registration is more about management systems than quality and very few, if any, small engineering companies regardless of the field feel the need to employ chartered engineers. Again someone in the office with the right letters after their name is not an indication of quality.

I've done a lot of work writing procedures for ISO. One thing found out was if you want to make crap fine provided it is documented and traceable.

 

[Deleted member 29692]

I've done a lot of work writing procedures for ISO. One thing found out was if you want to make crap fine provided it is documented and traceable.

And if you’ve got any undocumented and untraceable crap lying around during the audit label it as prototype and you’ll be fine

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[cornish boy]

There ARE NO PROPER apprenticeships, to-day. There are Training courses, for just about everything. My apprenticeship was a FULL 5 years. My Father`s generation did 7!. They even used the Wording "Modern Apprenticeships" now!.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion however I completely disagree with your statement.

I know for a fact that 'proper Apprenticeships' still exist in many, many organisations and have given 10'000's of people the chance to develop the skills of their trade through a combination of practical, theory, coaching and mentoring. I have the pleasure of meeting lots of these people regularly and have watched them grow in confidence and stature to the point they have mastered their trade and now have their own Apprentices to train.

It was my honour, (up until I left two years ago), to host an annual Apprenticeship graduation ceremony when the out-turning Apprentices received their Apprenticeship Deeds.

I get frustrated and annoyed on behalf of the former and current Apprentices I have had the pleasure to work alongside when their knowledge, their skills and the results of their hard work is undermined by sweeping statements that devalue their Apprenticeships and their mastering of a craft.

It is complete thread drift and I apologise to the OP for doing so!

I have now got off my soap box....

 

[tonyidle]

I always used to tell the apprentices - "you need the same number of holes to install something straight as you do to chuck it up pissed. The only difference between the two options is how much you care about what people think about you when they see it"



Bang on.

Someone should explain that to motorhome electricians and plumbers - or to the guy they find to throw the stuff in as cheaply as possible.

 

[drago35uk]

Everyone is entitled to their opinion however I completely disagree with your statement.

I know for a fact that 'proper Apprenticeships' still exist in many, many organisations and have given 10'000's of people the chance to develop the skills of their trade through a combination of practical, theory, coaching and mentoring. I have the pleasure of meeting lots of these people regularly and have watched them grow in confidence and stature to the point they have mastered their trade and now have their own Apprentices to train.

It was my honour, (up until I left two years ago), to host an annual Apprenticeship graduation ceremony when the out-turning Apprentices received their Apprenticeship Deeds.

I get frustrated and annoyed on behalf of the former and current Apprentices I have had the pleasure to work alongside when their knowledge, their skills and the results of their hard work is undermined by sweeping statements that devalue their Apprenticeships and their mastering of a craft.

It is complete thread drift and I apologise to the OP for doing so!

I have now got off my soap box....

I worked in industry for 40 years starting as an apprentice electrician and finishing as a chartered electrical engineer,the difference between apprentices 40 years ago and now is none. Years ago we had good and bad tradesmen out of their time as you still do now nothing’s changed and my time was no better than now.

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[PeteH]

And if you’ve got any undocumented and untraceable crap lying around during the audit label it as prototype and you’ll be fine

Would be really funny, IF it wasn't the truth!.

 

[PeteH]

Everyone is entitled to their opinion however I completely disagree with your statement.

I know for a fact that 'proper Apprenticeships' still exist in many, many organisations and have given 10'000's of people the chance to develop the skills of their trade through a combination of practical, theory, coaching and mentoring. I have the pleasure of meeting lots of these people regularly and have watched them grow in confidence and stature to the point they have mastered their trade and now have their own Apprentices to train.

It was my honour, (up until I left two years ago), to host an annual Apprenticeship graduation ceremony when the out-turning Apprentices received their Apprenticeship Deeds.

I get frustrated and annoyed on behalf of the former and current Apprentices I have had the pleasure to work alongside when their knowledge, their skills and the results of their hard work is undermined by sweeping statements that devalue their Apprenticeships and their mastering of a craft.

It is complete thread drift and I apologise to the OP for doing so!

I have now got off my soap box....

Whilst I have every sympathy with your frustration. My experience is totally at odds with yours. I know of at least 2 (personally, and I will guarantee there are thousands more) young people who having been taken on as "apprentices", where give the "grand order of the boot" when the GOVERNMENT "subsidy" was withdrawn. One, was so disillusioned, he finished up never working and on drugs. (sadly, as his Mum was a big friend of SWMBO). The other, my Eldest Grandson, eventually made it to Australia, and is about to complete his time there as a Master Plumber. This country, stopped properly training in all types of "hands on" job`s, including NHS staff, in the 80`s, further compounded by the importation of cheap Eastern European and ex Commonwealth Labour.

 

[125BEER]

Uh...back to A Frames......

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[bigtwin]

Rolls Royce old OilyFellow. No.2 son finished last year. One of the things he had to do at his induction was to file a one inch square hole and file and fit it with a one inch square peg all to tolerance. Inches, that shows you how old this test was. They now employ him on more money than I ever earned. Quality engineering.

Imagine how much he’d be earning if he continues on his career path and becomes an Engineer. However short we may be of trades people, we are very short of Engineers.

It saddens me how the population of this country bandy the terms ‘Engineer’ and ‘Engineering’ (god forbid, proper engineer/engineering!) about often in relation to washing machines, garages, motorhomes, A-frames, heating, etc. It doesn’t happen on the continent where they understand the term, and respect, Engineers.

Ian

 

[cornish boy]

Whilst I have every sympathy with your frustration. My experience is totally at odds with yours. I know of at least 2 (personally, and I will guarantee there are thousands more) young people who having been taken on as "apprentices", where give the "grand order of the boot" when the GOVERNMENT "subsidy" was withdrawn. One, was so disillusioned, he finished up never working and on drugs. (sadly, as his Mum was a big friend of SWMBO). The other, my Eldest Grandson, eventually made it to Australia, and is about to complete his time there as a Master Plumber. This country, stopped properly training in all types of "hands on" job`s, including NHS staff, in the 80`s, further compounded by the importation of cheap Eastern European and ex Commonwealth Labour.

And I worked for a company, managing their Apprenticeship scheme which was judged to be 'Outstanding' by OfSted where in the time I was in post, in excess of 600 people went through our scheme, all of them spending the first 24 months in our dedicated training centre being taught foundation skills and knowledge by highly experienced instructors before being allowed to go out into the business and working under the supervision of Apprentice mentors for a further 18 to 24 months before being independantly assessed. Then if they were assessed as competent, they then went on to spend a further minimum of 12 months as 'trainees' proving their ability to work without close supervision.

So I see your "2 people known personally" and raise you a further 598....

Add to that, I have spent a further 8 years as a National Apprenticeship Ambassador, encouraging companies to introduce (or re-introduce) Apprenticeships into their businesses and working behind the scenes to try and ensure Apprenticeships add value to both employers and employees through great training, good opportunities and robust assessment.

I am more than happy to listen to constructive inputs in how the Apprenticeship product can be improved.

Finally:

• the term 'Modern Apprenticeships' hasn't been used for a long time, from memory it was dropped around 2008.
• Government 'subsidy' has never been withdrawn, anyone who starts an Government funded Apprenticeship is guaranteed to be funded until the end.

Now I promise to the OP that I really will stop responding to thread drift.

and this time I mean it.......

 

[SuperMike]

Imagine how much he’d be earning if he continues on his career path and becomes an Engineer. However short we may be of trades people, we are very short of Engineers.

It saddens me how the population of this country bandy the terms ‘Engineer’ and ‘Engineering’ (god forbid, proper engineer/engineering!) about often in relation to washing machines, garages, motorhomes, A-frames, heating, etc. It doesn’t happen on the continent where they understand the term, and respect, Engineers.

Ian

Thank you @bigtwin, that is so very true. I think he can “begin” to call himself a proper engineer, having, last year, achieving his B.Eng (Hons). RR continue to support him as he studies for his Masters and of course, my greatest desire, is that he manages Chartered status.

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[cornish boy]

Thank you @bigtwin, that is so very true. I think he can “begin” to call himself a proper engineer, having, last year, achieving his B.Eng (Hons). RR continue to support him as he studies for his Masters and of course, my greatest desire, is that he manages Chartered status.

Well done to him, RR are another company who recognise the need to invest in the future and are not frightened of supporting employees to develop their skills.
With his B.Eng in the bag and a suitable range of experience behind him, he is entitled to apply for Incorporated Engineer status while on the journey to Chartered Engineer status.