A few questions about Panel Van Conversions (1 Viewer)

[madstacks]

Hi all- hope you are well and enjoying time on the road, we are still saving and searching for our perfect motorhome - have 3 years until we buy but savings are now up from £1400 to £2000, slowly but surely going up.

This is going to be a bit of a long post

A quick background - we are saving for a motorhome to spend at least 9 months of the year in including the winter months. to travel the country for our work. and we also work online.

We had it in our heads that we needed a coachbuilt with an island bed, it would offer us the space we need with a great level of comfort. But we worry that it will be a pain to park and we need to make daily trips to the post office. also we will be pretty much spending our life savings on this van and the thought of damp issues is of the upmost concern.

Wear and tear is also a concern, we even briefly considered a caravan and tow car instead! that way we can unhitch for the trips to the post office and if we wear out the caravan buy a new one but keep the tow car, but Damp again could be an issue and it does seem to plague the whole industry. Did look round a few, but "spongy" floors seem to be a real issue as well.

So in a complete turn around we are now considering a Panel van conversion! They may be small but we like the fact they are easier to park, strong and solid, any damp issues should be able to be traced to a window or vent seal rather than structural integrity, and we feel we could use it on a day to day basis for work a whole lot easier. Plus they have great payloads (3500kg limited licence) We could even tow a very small trailer for outdoor extras like deckchairs, BBQ ect if needed but I dont feel we will need to.

We realise the thought of spending a long time in such small vans will seem like madness to some, but we do feel we can make it work and be happy, they are small, but we see them as cosy!

We have gone and looked at a few. We are considering something from shire conversions, and specifying the highest level of insulation with insulated and possibly heated water tanks.

I do have a few questions I am wondering that may make us reevaluate.

1. Do PVC vans hold up better to heavy use? there seems to be less to go wrong with them and i see some with very high mileage compared to Coachbuilt, but these may have just been converted at a much later date?

2. Can PVC vans be serviced at standard garages instead of motor home specialists?

3. Are PVC vans as welcome as coachbuilt on most campsites? (we wont be wild camping much if at all)

4. Does anyone here have any experiences with PVC vans in very cold weather?

5. Does anyone know if the windscreens on PVC vans are much cheaper to replace than Coachbuilt so we would not have to have windscreen insurance?

6. If we did go for a custom conversion from a smaller company like Shire, would that be any harder for a garage to work on compared to say an autosleeper (assuming warranty was out and we were taking somewhere else)

That's all I can think of for now, but i am sure there is more

Thank you for reading, sorry for the wall of text here - very interested in any replys! In a way I am really glad its 3 years until we can buy because the more we think things through the more we are changing what we think will be the right van for us.

 

[pappajohn]

Well, back to windscreen.
An C Class cab is the same cab as a PVC so the windscreen is identical.
A C Class is a standard chassis cab with a converters bodywork fitted from the rear of the seats backwards.
I think for two people to live in what is akin to a work van for 9 months at a stretch will drive you both mad as little room to move around and no privacy.
Just my opinion.

 

[Cal54]

I have had both coachbuilt and PVC's and my current van is a PVC. Originally I preferred the coachbuilt vans as there was a bit more space and better storage. However I kept coming back to a PVC (now on my third) as I just like the ease with which I can park up anywhere and just get up and go, I now have a van with a fixed bed and the space under it has solved any storage issues. I use my van all year round and have found the heating more than adequate. Even though my tanks are under slung I have not had a problem with tanks freezing. For waste I just leave the drain open and use a bucket in winter.

Good luck with your hunt.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[BwB]

Started off using a coach built, it was great but a PIA to park in some places. So bought a panel van and did a basic conversion to see if it would meet the bill - it did but a change in personal circumstances meant a move back to a coach built which I enjoyed for 5 years or so but the parking and getting to some places was still a PIA so changed to a PVC which I have at the moment and think it's great. Has everything you'd need and can park anywhere.

People do say that you don't get much privacy in a PVC but I can't say I noticed too much more in coachbuilt. You have to think of the great outdoors as your other room and just open the side door. Might not have that option so much when it's raining but then I try not to be anywhere where it rains for too long

I think in any Class A/B/C you need to be good friends with your partner if you're more or less living in it full time

 

[madstacks]

Hi pappajohn, Ah yes that makes complete sense..I thought the way the over cab bit was attached may cause complications but i am probably getting confused with A class. I understand where you are coming from about the space, and it will indeed take some getting used too. but we are joined at the hip anyways and privacy is not of importance to us. We are sure we will be happy, but as a precaution would rent a PVC for a week to give it a test run.

Hi Cal54, Thats good to know your van has remained cosy during the winter months have you found any differences in costs for services and general running costs between the two?

Hi BwB, ahhhh when privacy is mentioned its from the outside looking in! doh didnt think of that, I think we would go for the very dark windows on ours mainly because it seems to help keep the van cooler in the sun, thats very true about seeing the outdoors as a second room

Luckily we are best friends and get on well, spend every day with each other always and work together.

 

[CazPaul]

I agree with your suggestions, a PVC is much less likely to have damp, windscreen easy and cheap, servicing easy at any garage.

If you are having one built to your spec/layout then you get what you want and can have a good layout in a 6 or 6.36 metre van.

The downside is resale value, which was my sticking point when it all boiled down to it.

Have a look at RP motorhomes of Harrogate, they are quality and will build a fully winterised one for you to you spec.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[madstacks]

Thanks CazPaul, I will have a look at RP motorhomes.

I had not considered resale values to much, but thats something to think about for sure. That said we plan to get at least 10 years or more use from it and probably but 150k on the clock! so resale potential will indeed be limited anyway.

 

[CazPaul]

If you know you are going to keep it for over 10 years and put 150k on the clock then resale wont come into it as much.

RP do triple glazed windows, they will put the fresh tank and all pipework inside and run a heating pipe down through the floor to the insulated waste, much better than the 12v heated wire to the waste which can only be used on hook up.

I have no connection and am going to pay them a visit soon myself, I have spoken to Steve Young the owner on the phone. They do not let you supply your own van though and will only build on one of their new ones. Some other converters let you supply a second hand one, which if you want a 3 litre with a chain driven cam then you won't be able to use them as Fiat no longer do this.

 

[madstacks]

That sounds really promising, Looking at their website now the vans do look beautiful!

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[mikebeaches]

Your plan certainly sounds feasible to me. We have owned 2 coachbuilts, but now have a pvc - which has proved so much better by far! Mostly for the reasons already mentioned.

However, for us there is another advantage. They feel more sure-footed and nimble at speed, especially on the motorway. Think 'white van man'. Not suggesting you always want to cane it, but for us travelling long distances on continental motorways it is quicker and comfier. Our coachbuilts we used to drive at 55-65mph, whereas the pvc - in the right conditions - perfectly fine at 70-75mph. More fuel efficient too (less wind resistance).

Much of your post suggests you might be focusing just on British vans. But to be honest, in general terms, they tend to be less well 'winterised', than continental vans. For example, German and French ones are expected to be used by winter sports enthusiasts and are designed and built accordingly. So typically have higher levels of insulation; more powerful heating systems and are generally tried and tested in seriously sub-zero temperatures.

Furthermore, vans from respected continental converters will always hold their value well if looked after. Because they are built in volume, and have been produced over a number of decades, they are really well thought through IMHO. Designs have been proven in a wider range of conditions - both extremes of heat and cold - than most British vans, especially from low-volume converters. Oh and there is plenty of choice available through U.K. dealers, although good used ones tend not to hang around - they get snapped up very quickly! Popular brands include: Globecar, Hymer, Knaus (German), and Rapido and Pilote (French) - but there are plenty of others.

As an aside, I read this week that of all new motorhome currently sold in Germany, more than one third are now PVCs, and increasing year by year.

The above is just my opinion, and others will have different views.

Good luck whatever you decide!

 

[Gaston aires]

We have had 3 A class vans, loved them all.
Our latest van is a PVC. Adria twin 640. It has A grade insulation, we have overnighted in heavy frost, warm as toast.
For touring it wins hands down. For going to stay long term, like say Spain, it is not the van for you. You have to weigh up what you want and decide.
Servicing is by normal dealers, but habitation checks is still by appointed agents.
I would never buy a van based on depreciation values alone. There are lots of deciding factors.
Our Adria is up there with the best vans and you hardly ever see them for resale.
Phil

 

[Cal54]

@madstacks - my PVC gets serviced and MOT at the same garage as my car. Having said that the company also serviced my coachbuilt MH as there equipment could handle the size. If you have a good local mechanic (technician) then check with them.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[madstacks]

Thanks mikebeaches for your reply, the whole driving aspect is a really good point and I regularly do trips of 150 miles each way or so for work, so ease and speed of the drive certainly does come into things for us, we have looked at some euro vans but the layouts have all been not to our tastes, but I will keep looking and those manufactures you have suggested gives lots more to look at

Lets just say I found the perfect layout - lets say an auto-sleeper. Would any of the van conversion specialists be able to uprate this for me and winterise it further?

Hi gillnphil, yep thats very true, we have to try and weigh up the pros and cons of both, I would like the extra space of the CB but since this will be our life savings going into the van I feel the PVC is the safer option, smaller but stronger.

Very handy to know cal54, as i do have a mechanic whom i know and trust and has serviced my car for years, never seen vans in the garage but im sure they can do it fine. I think a CB would take up to much room in their small garage.

All the local dealers must be sick of the sight of us now!! (marquise, dolphin, webbs) but to be fair to the not once have we been pestered or pushed to buy - just left to ourselfs to find the layout and van we want. So fair play to the dealers there.

 

[32143]

Our first van was a Shire conversion, I can highly recommend them, Darryl the owner will do anything you want, you can get a fully customised van or one of their pre designed options.

We spend months at a time away in ours, two adults and three large dogs no problem with space or cabin fever as long as you get your layout right. It's our only vehicle so used as a day van as well.
Think about what you want how you will use it and then speak with Darryl and Dale and plan exactly what you want.
We had our first one altered a couple of times as we found some things worked for us others didn't. It came with a wine cooler, which I initially got very excited about, then realised it only worked if on hook up and didn't cool low enough for my taste, if off hook up for any length of time it wouldn't then stay closed, we had them take it out and they made us a bespoke pull out rack in it's place. We had them make us the brightest upholstery ever, they were the first to admit it wasn't their cup of tea, but if you want something they will work out a way to accommodate it. They made us a bespoke pull out dog gate to keep the dogs off our bed.

We are on our 3rd PVC now and wouldn't go for anything bigger, easy to park, get serviced at any regular garage in commercial section.

Lin

 

[madstacks]

Hi Lin, Thanks for your reply, its great to speak to someone with first hand experience with shire! The first thing we thought of that wine cooler is it wont suit us, but the bespoke pull out rack is an excellent idea in its place! its also good to know they can make changes to vans they have built, what might be an option for us is to buy one of their used vans and have a budget for making any alterations we see fit.

We might pop along to the malvern show to have a look at all the PVC specialists.

3 years is a long time to wait so we are just really thinking things through for a very long time.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[32143]

Hi Lin, Thanks for your reply, its great to speak to someone with first hand experience with shire! The first thing we thought of that wine cooler is it wont suit us, but the bespoke pull out rack is an excellent idea in its place! its also good to know they can make changes to vans they have built, what might be an option for us is to buy one of their used vans and have a budget for making any alterations we see fit.

We might pop along to the malvern show to have a look at all the PVC specialists.

3 years is a long time to wait so we are just really thinking things through for a very long time.

Ours was an ex demonstrator, so significantly cheaper than their new ones, they said we could pick any colour for upholstery and carpets (we didn't take carpets) as they would just use the demo ones in the next van, so a good option as they only get show millage.

 

[RidersofRohan]

Like you I wasn't too bothered about resale as I reasoned I wanted 10 years out of it and would depreciate it over those ten years down to £0 by making use of it (also I can only do simple maths). Of course when you buy Motorhome mags etc you are tempted by the latest designs and then wonder about trade in, then you wake up and realise you might end up paying a fortune for it.
Don't be pushed into buying a new conversion, if you want something bespoke, there are converters who will help you find a suitable donor vehicle and convert it.
Mine was a mobile workshop van, 3 years old 29000 miles, 3.0 Fiat Iveco engine (chain cam) and converted came to £24k in total including Vat, I've added £1k more to it since probably. Had it 2.5 years and done 14000 miles in it, including Spain, France and Germany, and longest trip was 2 months; 2 adults and a 37kg Dalmatian. All relationships remained intact.
There isn't a perfect layout, just a preferred one!
I used a very small converter Dalesman of Skipton. I made almost weekly visits and the process was an enjoyable experience, the layout ideas developed to my original basic design as we went along.

 

[RidersofRohan]

Just to add.
You might not know the M62, it climbs out of the dark lands into Yorkshire and its a substantial hill. 70mph in 6th at the bottom, 70 mph in 6th gear at the top. Park in car parks although you do have to overhang the rear as its 6.4 metre version, usually can find a grass verge on the car park edge.
We tend to move about when we are touring, whereas others find a nice place and stay there, so its suits us but wouldn't everybody.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[CazPaul]

Like you I wasn't too bothered about resale as I reasoned I wanted 10 years out of it and would depreciate it over those ten years down to £0 by making use of it (also I can only do simple maths). Of course when you buy Motorhome mags etc you are tempted by the latest designs and then wonder about trade in, then you wake up and realise you might end up paying a fortune for it.
Don't be pushed into buying a new conversion, if you want something bespoke, there are converters who will help you find a suitable donor vehicle and convert it.
Mine was a mobile workshop van, 3 years old 29000 miles, 3.0 Fiat Iveco engine (chain cam) and converted came to £24k in total including Vat, I've added £1k more to it since probably. Had it 2.5 years and done 14000 miles in it, including Spain, France and Germany, and longest trip was 2 months; 2 adults and a 37kg Dalmatian. All relationships remained intact.
There isn't a perfect layout, just a preferred one!
I used a very small converter Dalesman of Skipton. I made almost weekly visits and the process was an enjoyable experience, the layout ideas developed to my original basic design as we went along.

Never heard of those, Dalesman, do you have a link or details please.

 

[busby]

We

We have had 3 A class vans, loved them all.
Our latest van is a PVC. Adria twin 640. It has A grade insulation, we have overnighted in heavy frost, warm as toast.
For touring it wins hands down. For going to stay long term, like say Spain, it is not the van for you. You have to weigh up what you want and decide.
Servicing is by normal dealers, but habitation checks is still by appointed agents.
I would never buy a van based on depreciation values alone. There are lots of deciding factors.
Our Adria is up there with the best vans and you hardly ever see them for resale.
Phil

have no bother with long term (3 month) stays in our little 5 m van in Spain over the winter,,,Spend most of the time outside,, BUSBY

 

[busby]

If you want a panel van converting try TERRY on this forum,,,,BUSBY,,

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[RidersofRohan]

Never heard of those, Dalesman, do you have a link or details please.

Phone 01729 830083
Not sure about web site but facebook "Dalesman Conversions".

 

[Gaston aires]

We

have no bother with long term (3 month) stays in our little 5 m van in Spain over the winter,,,Spend most of the time outside,, BUSBY

Nice to Know if we decide to "overwinter" somewhere. Thanks, Phil

 

[MacroMad]

5. Does anyone know if the windscreens on PVC vans are much cheaper to replace than Coachbuilt so we would not have to have windscreen insurance?

Hi there, To answer this question = A windscreen for a panel van / regular mass produced commercial vehicle is M U C H cheaper than a windscreen for a dedicated coachbuilt vehicle.
Some "Motorhome's" are built on chassis of commercial vehicles (like mine, a Autotrail Cheyanne built on a Fiat chassis) and the front end is not modified, same doors and windows etc except for some blinds and cosmetics which means the windscreen is the same as the regular road going commercial vehicle.
These day's, vehicles are manufactured with windscreens made from "Safety Glass" or Laminated Windscreens while the side windows are made from "Toughened Glass".
Laminated glass is constructed by laminating two sheets of float glass to a central layer called an interlayer, this can be clear, tinted or "Top" tinted. This laminated windscreen is extremely strong and designed to withstand frontal stone damage, usually when "Hit" by stones from the road it is only the outer layer of glass that get's damaged, the Interlayer protects the inner layer and holds the laminate together. Sometimes the stone may cause just a stone chip, other times it may crack the screen. In either event this is NOT an emergency, your vehicle is safe to drive and to get you home where you can arrange replacement or "Chip Repair" at your leisure. Obviously sometimes your screen may get hit by something substantial, this can make quite a mess to the screen but it should hold together to protect the vehicle occupants.
A little about Screen Repairs, screen repairs came about because of the very high cost of "Coach Screens" which were costing the Insurers thousands of £'s. You could in theory replace a screen today at several thousand pounds and get hit by another stone tomorrow and need another replacement. Because a stone chip only damages the outer sheet of glass a resin can be injected into this damage and get rid of the air trapped in the lamination, the resin goes off/hard and brings the screen back to how it was before the stone hit the screen, you will always see the point of impact but the chance of the screen now cracking from this stone chip is minimised. The cost of repairing any windscreen is about the same cost and is penny's compared to the cost of a new screen. You should be able to get your screen repaired for around £40 if you are paying yourself.
Hope this was of some use.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[Mikeco]

Hi there, To answer this question = A windscreen for a panel van / regular mass produced commercial vehicle is M U C H cheaper than a windscreen for a dedicated coachbuilt vehicle.
Some "Motorhome's" are built on chassis of commercial vehicles (like mine, a Autotrail Cheyanne built on a Fiat chassis) and the front end is not modified, same doors and windows etc except for some blinds and cosmetics which means the windscreen is the same as the regular road going commercial vehicle.
These day's, vehicles are manufactured with windscreens made from "Safety Glass" or Laminated Windscreens while the side windows are made from "Toughened Glass".
Laminated glass is constructed by laminating two sheets of float glass to a central layer called an interlayer, this can be clear, tinted or "Top" tinted. This laminated windscreen is extremely strong and designed to withstand frontal stone damage, usually when "Hit" by stones from the road it is only the outer layer of glass that get's damaged, the Interlayer protects the inner layer and holds the laminate together. Sometimes the stone may cause just a stone chip, other times it may crack the screen. In either event this is NOT an emergency, your vehicle is safe to drive and to get you home where you can arrange replacement or "Chip Repair" at your leisure. Obviously sometimes your screen may get hit by something substantial, this can make quite a mess to the screen but it should hold together to protect the vehicle occupants.
A little about Screen Repairs, screen repairs came about because of the very high cost of "Coach Screens" which were costing the Insurers thousands of £'s. You could in theory replace a screen today at several thousand pounds and get hit by another stone tomorrow and need another replacement. Because a stone chip only damages the outer sheet of glass a resin can be injected into this damage and get rid of the air trapped in the lamination, the resin goes off/hard and brings the screen back to how it was before the stone hit the screen, you will always see the point of impact but the chance of the screen now cracking from this stone chip is minimised. The cost of repairing any windscreen is about the same cost and is penny's compared to the cost of a new screen. You should be able to get your screen repaired for around £40 if you are paying yourself.
Hope this was of some use.

A long post but starts off wrong, the screens for coach built vans and panel vans are exactly the same, you mean A class vans.

 

[MacroMad]

A long post but starts off wrong

My terminology may be incorrect but to say I'm wrong is wrong.
This is what i would call Coachbuilt and It's screen is not the same as a regular mass produced vehicle.

I did qualify what i meant by saying "Some "Motorhome's" are built on chassis of commercial vehicles (like mine, a Autotrail Cheyanne built on a Fiat chassis) and the front end is not modified, same doors and windows etc except for"................ like the one in the photo below.

I was merely trying to help by offering some advice regarding windscreens and regular commercial vehicles / panel vans.

 

[Mikeco]

My terminology may be incorrect but to say I'm wrong is wrong.
This is what i would call Coachbuilt and It's screen is not the same as a regular mass produced vehicle.
View attachment 182621 I did qualify what i meant by saying "Some "Motorhome's" are built on chassis of commercial vehicles (like mine, a Autotrail Cheyanne built on a Fiat chassis) and the front end is not modified, same doors and windows etc except for"................ like the one in the photo below. View attachment 182622
I was merely trying to help by offering some advice regarding windscreens and regular commercial vehicles / panel vans.

Your terminology was incorrect and therefore in my opinion you were were wrong, coach built motor homes as we know them use the vehicle manufacturers cab. But don't worry about it we are all wrong sometimes.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[MacroMad]

in my opinion you were were wrong

Yes, i can remember making a mistake once, i thought i had made a mistake but i was wrong.
Take it easy, dont go splitting too many hairs.

 

[Kingham]

Yes, i can remember making a mistake once, i thought i had made a mistake but i was wrong.
Take it easy, dont go splitting too many hairs.

Correcting a fundamental mistake such as @Mikeco did, in what is otherwise a very informative post by your good self, is not splitting hairs.

Uncorrected, your post could leave some readers under the impression that coachbuilt windscreens are much more expensive than the screens of the base vehicles upon which they are based, which is not correct.

 

[Kingham]

My terminology may be incorrect but to say I'm wrong is wrong.
This is what i would call Coachbuilt and It's screen is not the same as a regular mass produced vehicle.
View attachment 182621 I did qualify what i meant by saying "Some "Motorhome's" are built on chassis of commercial vehicles (like mine, a Autotrail Cheyanne built on a Fiat chassis) and the front end is not modified, same doors and windows etc except for"................ like the one in the photo below. View attachment 182622
I was merely trying to help by offering some advice regarding windscreens and regular commercial vehicles / panel vans.

The second picture is a coachbuilt