5th Gear

Apr 19, 2008
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Dreaded 5th gear went, Fiat Ducato, limped back from Rouen . went to Fiat dealer for quote for 5th gear only as synchro hub has been reversed and appears ok, gear kit £274.26 Oil 2.7 litres £30.60 . Have had similar quotes from Peugeot and citroen parts department but been put off as ratio`s of gearing seem different. Fiat Hymer 1995 model. Aware that forum has had previous posts re this issue but where do i go on the new site.
Any pointers for better deal re 5th gear or is it best to stick with main dealer OE
 

Carol

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Just go into search on the top by your avatar type in Fifth Gear press search, just tried and up they all came.
 
OP
B-well
Apr 19, 2008
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Carol Many thanks it worked and read threads relating to the problem, I still need to find out if the 5th gear can be obtained elsewhere other than Fiat main dealer though;).

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Carol

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One thing I don't know if you were aware of and I know it's no help now, but it is best if 5th gear is not selected for the first few miles until the oil warms up to get into the 5th gear which is separate from the other gears on these earlier models. This helps so when you get it fixed this could be of benefit .
 
OP
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Many thanks for the update, will be aware of this when i get back on the road.
 

RS_rob

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over a Year Yay................
Ive seen em on ebay
& having looked into this myself I wait till the engine is @ normall temp before I go for 5th now.

Still gotta check the oil thou

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OP
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Apr 19, 2008
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Many thanks for all help, problem i`m having is the number of teeth on gearing , i have 58/35 T which are not sold on the e-bay sight.
 
OP
B-well
Apr 19, 2008
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Okay done it myself, jacked n/s of van up, removed wheel for easy access but no need, and can be done on side of road.
Drain oil 2.7 litres, remove 5th gear cover on end of g/box exposing x2 cogs, one nut C type can be undone with sharp blow from blunt chisel. replaced 5th gear, kit costing £274 as several teeth were missing, swarth attached to magnet which i placed outside of cover when gear went, selectors were okay however i turned selector gear around as no 6th gear ,so teeth not worn on other edge side.
replaced oil £30.60 this has to done through reverse light switch found on top of G/box. Old Oil was clear and gold colour but did not want to chance returning to box. gear cover gasket is rubber and can be re used.

Be careful when removing selector gear as x3 springs and ball bearings likely to pop out, do check mechanism is moving properly though slight resistance felt as bearings seat. the whole cluster 5th gear and selector mechanism can be slid of the shaft as one piece, remember to remove selector fork nut though..
estimate that job could be undertaken in a couple of hours now i know what to do, awaited for Fiat parts 2 days
looked on e-bay for comparison ,however teeth numbers are different so this would alter the gearing ratio, and i did not want to chance it.
The citroen and peugeot gearbox do sometimes differ in gearing and locking nuts sizes used on gear shafts, If you replace the selector mechanism this is another £330 odd.
But be careful if you have difficulty with engaging other gears as this may require G/box overhaul.
to date only covered approx 50 miles but all working and no unusual noises. hope this is useful.(y)

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Tootles

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Thank you from all the nosey sods (y)
As it is a seemingly straight forward repair, does this suggest Fiat were anticipating trouble ?
5th gear was never meant to be according the original spec. It was added after production of the series 1 Ducato started, hence the bung on the top set up.

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TheBig1

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5th gear was never meant to be according the original spec. It was added after production of the series 1 Ducato started, hence the bung on the top set up.
and because it was added on to an existing gearbox layout, that is the route cause of why they fail....insufficient lubrication
 
OP
B-well
Apr 19, 2008
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:cheers: I have read articles re lack of lubricant, and someone had drilled additional hole in G/box casing to allow more flow but this would also cause stress factors. There are theories around re lack of oil splash however i drained the recommended amount and believe this to be original in 1995 van. cause more likely to be NOT changing down on the long hill drag earlier enough ( this could be causing strain on the gear). Anyway it has been recorded that this particular fault is well known for this box. Also fitted to peugeot and citroen vehicles, however as i reported there are differences in the number of teeth on the gearing and i opted for like for like.

For anyone around Kent area , i'm willing to give a hand if you have similar problem and tempted to have a go.
 
OP
B-well
Apr 19, 2008
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Okay 3000 miles done and 5th gear not working, took gear off again and it appears that the synchro ring teeth are spinning around, these are heated and shrunk on to main gear. Fiat will replace under warranty however cannot locate one in UK . One coming from Italy VOR order but expected to be 1 week.:swear:

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Aug 18, 2014
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I read somewhere that once the fault became apparent they found that increasing the "max oil level" by 20mm up the dipstick aided lubrication enormously.
sorry to hear you have a faulty part & have to change it again.
 

Tootles

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I read somewhere that once the fault became apparent they found that increasing the "max oil level" by 20mm up the dipstick aided lubrication enormously.
sorry to hear you have a faulty part & have to change it again.
Yes, I wrote something on that ages ago. Still got the info somewhere. Measure 20mm down the stick from the plug, and saw a line on the stick. Top up to that, about an extra 3/4 litre. Works fine with me, no leaks, and the box is running much quieter.
 
Aug 18, 2011
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I read somewhere that once the fault became apparent they found that increasing the "max oil level" by 20mm up the dipstick aided lubrication enormously.
sorry to hear you have a faulty part & have to change it again.
I read that somewhere to...BUSBY.

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OP
B-well
Apr 19, 2008
1,609
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brought first van 16 yrs ago
Yes, I wrote something on that ages ago. Still got the info somewhere. Measure 20mm down the stick from the plug, and saw a line on the stick. Top up to that, about an extra 3/4 litre. Works fine with me, no leaks, and the box is running much quieter.

Yes seen info on past posts however box has no dipstick,(except the driver) have to refill through reverse light switch. will add a little extra oil as recommended thanks.
 

Chris

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Does 5th gear go on 6 gear models or am I just being dumb?
 

scotjimland

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Jul 25, 2007
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Reading various threads it sounds like it can be an expensive repair if done properly.. ie box off and cleaned out of any bits of metal / swarf from the broken gear.. (see pasted quote)

I am looking to buy a second hand Hymer 544.. probably a 2000 - 2006 model and am concerned I buy one that has the 5th gear on it's last legs..

Which model years is this a potential problem.. ?
is it all Fiats pre x250 ?

How do I know if it has been changed.. and if it has that it has been done properly..

I'm starting to have second thoughts about Fiat based van. I can do without this added worry and future expense..


I refer to this thread http://www.motorhomefun.co.uk/forum...s-failing-5th-gear-problem.64498/#post-759411

with this post from Geo

Strange but true I was contacted this week by a guy with a similar problem
he was most disapointed when i told him a 5th gear repair was more involved that a 5th gear upgrade and i suspect from his tone he did not want to know as others had already told him its just an end plate of and bobs yer uncle
Is it only me that cares where the shrapnel and swarf has ended up:RollEyes:

Yes I could have quoted him for just a 5th gear replacement and took his dosh, after all he'd probably be back in Spain when the rest of the gears went tits up due to crap in the box
We do care in the trade so let us do a proper job when it warranted.
After all its you who will be fast back on here saying what a s**ty job was done:Cool:

Fifth gear upgrade is an improvment to an already good box:thumb:
Jumping out of gears and gear failures can be due to many things that warrant investigation
Or your just winging it

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scotjimland

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Jul 25, 2007
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I just read somewhere that the 5th gear problem does not affect vans from 2003 .. can anyone confirm..

other sites say it affects vans up to 2006 ..
 
Last edited:
Aug 18, 2011
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I sold a 1998 symphony with 160 k on the clock last year..Had all service history,,it had a new clutch fitted at 110 k but no mention of any gear box problems,,,Busby...
 
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