5G going forward (1 Viewer)

[Mike123]

Any IT people out there that can provide opinion / feedback -

Seeing that 5G is being proposed as the way forward regarding mobile technology, can anyone comment on if you would need to upgrade WIFI (i.e. would you need to replace the existing antenna - if you have one fitted) in order to benefit from such technology.....

As thinking of getting WIFI, just mindful that you have the choice of 4G, but 5G looks like being round the corner........

Assume the question would be the same if you have a 4G dongle, would you have to upgrade ?

Thanks in advance

 

[Coolcats]

Yes you would need to upgrade from 4g to 5g but remember whilst 5g may be faster you have the issue of more masts are needed as the transmission range is shorter so 4g will be around for many more years yet.

 

[Mike123]

Thanks - that will be interesting given rural locations

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[kevenh]

I’d expect little to be 5G compatible for an existing 4G setup.
Sim, Mifi and antenna
But mostly communication tech has retained support for previous format. E.g. 3 & 4G support.

 

[kevenh]

The Huawei E6878-370 5G is also 4G, for example but ~£400
I think there’s life in 4G products for a month or 2

 

[Guigsy]

I work on a project that is using 5G.

The 5G masts and the infrastructure that supports them is still a long way from being complete and ubiquitous. Even in city centres, 5G networks are more trials than final builds. Some of the 5G spec is still not finalised, so further improvements are expected. Due to perceived security issues with Huawei, some of the operators are going back and replacing the 5G gear in their masts, which is delaying roll-out. Many 5G networks are still only using a small proportion of their final frequency bands, and many are still using 4G backhaul, so the best speed you will get is the same as someone with a good 4G connection.

4G will be around for a while yet. I wouldn't shell out a fortune for 5G hardware yet.

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[Mike123]

My concern that 4G will become Legacy in terms of point of sale and 5G will become the norm in the next 18 months, but not sure if that's what you need for 90% of user needs

 

[Mike123]

I work on a project that is using 5G.

The 5G masts and the infrastructure that supports them is still a long way from being complete and ubiquitous. Even in city centres, 5G networks are more trials than final builds. Some of the 5G spec is still not finalised, so further improvements are expected. Due to perceived security issues with Huawei, some of the operators are going back and replacing the 5G gear in their masts, which is delaying roll-out. Many 5G networks are still only using a small proportion of their final frequency bands, and many are still using 4G backhaul, so the best speed you will get is the same as someone with a good 4G connection.

4G will be around for a while yet. I wouldn't shell out a fortune for 5G hardware yet.

Thanks Guigsy

 

[gerrym11]

If you only camp in major cities then 5G is for you. Otherwise I wouldn't bother with it for at least the rest of this year.

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[Brains]

5G has not even been rolled out in major cities yet.
It will be years before it's in almost every significant town.
Only then will they start on the villages, which is where the campsites tend to be.
Rural Englandshire will be excluded from 5G for many years to come yet.

Remember vast areas of the UK, which have low resident populations but high holiday populations, still have limited or zero coverage of any sort, 1G would be a start for them.

A few classic areas are:
Broadstairs: The main beach can get 20,000 people on a sunny weekend. Zero coverage, unless you can get a signal from France
Snowdonia: The A5 carries the majority of freight from Ireland to the UK & EU, 5,000 trucks a day, plus 50,000 cars, plus thousands of people camping and walking. No signal below 500m.
N.Cornwall: Holiday residence of at least 3 recent Prime Ministers, plus tens of thousands of holiday makers. Signal strength varies between zero and intermittent.

Unfortunately none of the mobile companies is prepared to spend the money to pick up this vast traffic, as the population demographics dont support their spreadsheets.

Despite campsites being big users of mobile facilities, don't expect 5G any time soon.

 

[Guigsy]

A few classic areas are:
Broadstairs: The main beach can get 20,000 people on a sunny weekend. Zero coverage, unless you can get a signal from France
Snowdonia: The A5 carries the majority of freight from Ireland to the UK & EU, 5,000 trucks a day, plus 50,000 cars, plus thousands of people camping and walking. No signal below 500m.
N.Cornwall: Holiday residence of at least 3 recent Prime Ministers, plus tens of thousands of holiday makers. Signal strength varies between zero and intermittent.

Some of these places have coverage. Just it doesn't have coverage to work when there are many times the normal number of people trying to use it. E.g. 340 days per year on Snowdon, there's very few people using their phones. That's what the network is designed to cope with. On one of the rare sunny days when thousands of people climb it at once and go Instagram crazy, network gets jammed solid so it appears you have no coverage.

 

[autorouter]

4G mifi units will still be able to work as 4G using 5G infrastructure, so will be OK for many years.

For motorhome users, the awkward item will be the roof antenna, with its sealed hole in the roof. A 5G antenna is very similar to 4G, but there's an extra bit that picks up a higher frequency band (over 3GHz, as opposed to the 4G 2.4GHz). So best to get a '5G-ready' antenna if you're buying now.

The radio unit in a 5G mifi will be entirely different from a 4G mifi, so you'll need a new 5G mifi when the time comes. As I said, a 4G mifi should still work with a 5G phone mast. Also a 5G mifi will work with a 4G phone mast, but only at 4G not 5G.

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[Oldchappers]

Other issue with moving to 5G antenna is that it will not pick up 3G meaning you could end up with nothing currently. I would get a 5G ready antenna and stick with 4G for now. when 5G has a broader base then upgrade the router to 5G.

 

[Guigsy]

4G mifi units will still be able to work as 4G using 5G infrastructure, so will be OK for many years.

For motorhome users, the awkward item will be the roof antenna, with its sealed hole in the roof. A 5G antenna is very similar to 4G, but there's an extra bit that picks up a higher frequency band (over 3GHz, as opposed to the 4G 2.4GHz). So best to get a '5G-ready' antenna if you're buying now.

The radio unit in a 5G mifi will be entirely different from a 4G mifi, so you'll need a new 5G mifi when the time comes. As I said, a 4G mifi should still work with a 5G phone mast. Also a 5G mifi will work with a 4G phone mast, but only at 4G not 5G.

At the moment, most of the 5G signals are just partial implementations that are tacked on to existing 4G, but that will change over time. The 5G standard defines all the back-end infrastructure and how it processes the data and how it flows and gets prioritised. Which is why the government is so itchy about letting Chinese kit sit on their network. What I'm not sure about is whether 4G traffic can be piped through a 5G infrastructure. If they have to be kept separate, then you might find 4G becomes a second class service pretty quickly.

 

[kevenh]

Other issue with moving to 5G antenna is that it will not pick up 3G meaning you could end up with nothing currently. I would get a 5G ready antenna and stick with 4G for now. when 5G has a broader base then upgrade the router to 5G.

Just looking to be a 2min expert, but a 4G antenna may only have 3G on it as an option.
Looks like you can have a 4G only antenna too.
Source of info is the antenna for sale here

You get several options. LTE/4G/3G, 4G/LTE, 3G/4G, 5G/4G, etc.
So best to check the specs of your current or planned antenna?

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[kevenh]

Just looking to be a 2min expert, but a 4G antenna may only have 3G on it as an option.
Looks like you can have a 4G only antenna too.
Source of info is the antenna for sale here

You get several options. LTE/4G/3G, 4G/LTE, 3G/4G, 5G/4G, etc.
So best to check the specs of your current or planned antenna?

I think if 3G 4G AND 5G is needed, look for a good wideband antenna. There are options for 3G with 5G capable antennas.

But be aware you need to make sure you get the spec & size, etc. of antenna needed.

Source: Amazon Listing

 

[Deneb]

Other issue with moving to 5G antenna is that it will not pick up 3G meaning you could end up with nothing currently. I would get a 5G ready antenna and stick with 4G for now. when 5G has a broader base then upgrade the router to 5G.

Hmm. I have a Panorama 5G antenna which is advertised as having 4G and 5G elements, but it certainly picks up 3G signals. I often force a 3G connection through the router in overloaded or poor 4G signal areas where it gives a better signal and speed on 3G.

 

[Brains]

Some of these places have coverage. Just it doesn't have coverage to work when there are many times the normal number of people trying to use it. E.g. 340 days per year on Snowdon, there's very few people using their phones. That's what the network is designed to cope with. On one of the rare sunny days when thousands of people climb it at once and go Instagram crazy, network gets jammed solid so it appears you have no coverage.

In Snowdonia it above 500m where you get the signal, the local network seems to be able to cope with the instagram generation getting to the top.

The problem is in the valleys, below the 500m line, where there is no signal coverage at all.
This is where the roads, the villages, the campsites, and people with problems on the hill descend into.

Offcom mobile coverage map here

I was involved with the local Mountain Rescue team, the lack of coverage causes them daily problems.

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[Oldchappers]

Hmm. I have a Panorama 5G antenna which is advertised as having 4G and 5G elements, but it certainly picks up 3G signals. I often force a 3G connection through the router in overloaded or poor 4G signal areas where it gives a better signal and speed on 3G.

Sorry just reread my statement. Antenna will work for 3G. It’s 5G router which will Not toggle down to 3G.

 

[kevenh]

It’s 5G router which will Not toggle down to 3G.

Most (all?) 5G routers will drop to 4G so worth looking at how often your current setup is dropping to 3G or worse AND is usable for you when it does.

Some antenna are narrow band and may be restricted to 5G though as my reference is based on what’s on sale here that could be rare if it’s just the high level bullet points shown re. capabilities confusing things.

 

[Off da Grid]

Looking at the trials for 5g speed tests around the country, in a lot of cases unless your in a town or city it won’t be worth the bother with 5g for at least a decade.
In rural areas 4g coverage needs to run at the lower frequencies to be usable.
Starlink would be a better option if the price were to come down enough.

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[Wh05apk]

For most "normal" use is there any real benefit in 5g? I will work from the van, and stream some TV, but as long as I get a half decent 4g signal that is adequate, I don't need superfast speed, is it a solution to a "problem" that doesn't exist?

 

[Guigsy]

For most "normal" use is there any real benefit in 5g? I will work from the van, and stream some TV, but as long as I get a half decent 4g signal that is adequate, I don't need superfast speed, is it a solution to a "problem" that doesn't exist?

I agree that good 4G is quick enough for most use cases nowadays and for the near future. And 5G doesn't even promise that much more speed. What it does do is provide a lot more capacity. As more and more devices start using the 4G network, it'll soon go over capacity, get congested and speeds will plummet. We already see this when big events happen and more than the usual number of people abuse a cell tower.

In the next couple of years, I think network providers are going to push people over to 5G because it'll be easier for them to provide a promised level of service. But as people mentioned, away from populated areas, there probably still won't be great coverage.

 

[Coolcats]

I agree that good 4G is quick enough for most use cases nowadays and for the near future. And 5G doesn't even promise that much more speed. What it does do is provide a lot more capacity. As more and more devices start using the 4G network, it'll soon go over capacity, get congested and speeds will plummet. We already see this when big events happen and more than the usual number of people abuse a cell tower.

In the next couple of years, I think network providers are going to push people over to 5G because it'll be easier for them to provide a promised level of service. But as people mentioned, away from populated areas, there probably still won't be great coverage.

How much band width do you think is normally allocated to a mast in a rural location ? Or the question put another way is the mast may have limited bandwidth connectivity

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[Guigsy]

How much band width do you think is normally allocated to a mast in a rural location ? Or the question put another way is the mast may have limited bandwidth connectivity

I don't think it's so much the bandwidth of the backhaul network connection to the mast that's normally the limit with 4G. It's the amount of traffic that can be carried in each radio band. 5G does can cope with many more simultaneous connections and cope with far more interference than 4G. It can maintain higher speeds when signals are weak. It's just more efficient with the same amount of radio band.

 

[Richard n Ann]

My phone is 5G but never seen it displayed at the top of the screen, usually just 4G+ at best. Perhaps Plusnet won't let me use it for £10 a month

 

[Wh05apk]

We're currently in York, and probably about 200m away from a mast my wife is getting 300Mbps + on 5g, i'm getting 25 on 4g, the first time she has seen 5g, both were more than adequate for streaming netflix.

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[Coolcats]

I don't think it's so much the bandwidth of the backhaul network connection to the mast that's normally the limit with 4G. It's the amount of traffic that can be carried in each radio band. 5G does can cope with many more simultaneous connections and cope with far more interference than 4G. It can maintain higher speeds when signals are weak. It's just more efficient with the same amount of radio band.

It’s a different technology higher frequency rate and much less latency. But my real question is unless there is fibre to the base station the speeds will be limited

 

[kevenh]

My phone is 5G but never seen it displayed at the top of the screen, usually just 4G+ at best. Perhaps Plusnet won't let me use it for £10 a month

Is your phone AND sim ready for 5G?
Only a 2min “expert” from looking into antennas above (& still on 4G myself ) but think we need all parts of the chain 5G capable.

 

[Richard n Ann]

Is your phone AND sim ready for 5G?
Only a 2min “expert” from looking into antennas above (& still on 4G myself ) but think we need all parts of the chain 5G capable.

Oh, it's probably a 4G sim then. Bought the phone 6 months ago and put the old sim in it

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