3 way fridge not working on 12v (1 Viewer)

[VXman]

Helen Ariel

Did you ever sort this? Just asking as we have a similar issue at the mo.

 

[Helen Ariel]

It’s the element. Still waiting on parts…

 

[VXman]

It’s the element. Still waiting on parts…

Oh my goodness - 7 months!!

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[autorouter]

It’s the element. Still waiting on parts…

I got that one wrong then.

The 1 ohm reading looks OK to me. It's not very accurate (more than 0.5 but less than 1.5) but if there was a fault it would read 0 or OVLD (very high resistance). For slightly better accuracy you could try on the 200 range. Before you measure, touch the probes together to measure the probe lead resistance, and subtract it from the element reading. I'd expect about 1.4 for a 100 watt element, 0.7 for a 200 watt element.

For example, if touching the probes shows 0.3 ohms, and the element reading is 1.0 ohms, then the true element resistance is 0.7 ohms.

Just for future reference, was that reading of 1 in picture 4 of post #24 correct? I was a bit suspicious that there were no other figures. I should have noticed it was on the 2000 ohm range, not the 200. What reading do you get when the meter is on the 200 ohm range but the probes aren't touching anything?

The other possibility is that the element failed as a short-circuit, and on the 2000 ohm range the meter won't read lower than 1 ohm so it can't tell you that. What reading do you get if you touch the probes together on the 200 ohm range?

 

[Helen Ariel]

Oh my goodness - 7 months!!

We’ve only been back for 3 months, and we only took it to the dealer a few weeks ago tbf.

 

[VXman]

Hi, had similar issue all fuses ok from engine compartment back to fridge relay behind external vent area. Also fuses in domestic fuse / MCB consumer unit. Turned out to be changeover relay in engine compartment not sending power when required.

Sorry - a bit of a thread revival. Where was this relay -actually under the engine bonnet?

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[Dave Scadding]

Yes, I have a Fiat Ducato base vehicle on a Swift Kontiki. There’s a 10mn brown cable on a 30a fuse feeding the relay. I googled Dommetic fridge change over relay and they’re very expensive, so I just bought a pack of 5 terminal relays for about £5 thinking it would just blow but it has been working perfectly for over a year. I still have the remaining 4 would send one to you if it’s the same?

 

[VXman]

Yes, I have a Fiat Ducato base vehicle on a Swift Kontiki. There’s a 10mn brown cable on a 30a fuse feeding the relay. I googled Dommetic fridge change over relay and they’re very expensive, so I just bought a pack of 5 terminal relays for about £5 thinking it would just blow but it has been working perfectly for over a year. I still have the remaining 4 would send one to you if it’s the same?

Generous offer. I think I need to locate this relay first. Pic below shows a 30 amp fuse in the starter battery well. It's got a light red(slightly pink) wire and a black/red wire. I cannot see where it goes. In addition there is a 50 amp and a 20 amp fuse.

Where would I locate the relay to check it?

 

[Dave Scadding]

See the black cover with the 2 nuts holding it down, mine are under that.

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[GeoffnDee]

VXman your relays are within the EBL 119 there is information on the Schaudt system you have which may help at www.aandncaravanservices.co.uk

 

[VXman]

See the black cover with the 2 nuts holding it down, mine are under that.

Mine doesn't have anything like that. Is that your main Ducato Fuse box? I just have a fuse box behind the passenger side headlamp - tucked under a little. Lots of fuses and relays but no way of telling if any are for the fridge.

 

[GeoffnDee]

VXman your relays are within the EBL 119 there is information on the Schaudt system you have which may help at www.aandncaravanservices.co.uk

Including the fridge relay !

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[Dave Scadding]

Mine doesn't have anything like that. Is that your main Ducato Fuse box? I just have a fuse box behind the passenger side headlamp - tucked under a little. Lots of fuses and relays but no way of telling if any are for the fridge.

No the main fuse box is passenger side glove box area in cab. You probably need to take the exterior fridge vent off and see what colour/ size of wire is feeding the 12v side. Then find that wire within engine bay, that should lead you to the supply and relay?

 

[VXman]

No the main fuse box is passenger side glove box area in cab. You probably need to take the exterior fridge vent off and see what colour/ size of wire is feeding the 12v side. Then find that wire within engine bay, that should lead you to the supply and relay?

I think GeoffnDee may be right. Mines obviously a later Ducato than yours and also not a Swift. Does yours use a Elektroblock EBL?

 

[VXman]

So onto another tangent in my quest to find something simple like a fuse not working.

Under the drivers seat is the liesure battery. There is a little block of fuses. 50amp, 2 amp and 1 amp. 50 amp is main battery fuse and the 2 amp is the habitation 12v lights etc.

The black 1 amp is on the end. I think it is blown. What is this for? And have I got it in the right slot anyway because there is an empty slot and I may have put it back incorrectly!

2021 Burstner Ducato Lyseo by the way.

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[GeoffnDee]

The Swift will have a Sargent or Nordelettronica electrical system which is very different to your later more complicated Schaudt set up. That 1amp fuse could be linked to a problem if it carries a signal to the EBL119 that controls the electrical system of your Motorhome.

 

[autorouter]

VXman your Burstner will have a distribution/fusebox, and the relays, including the fridge relay, will be in that. What make and model is your distribution/fusebox? Is it an Electroblock EBL119 like the OP has, or different?

 

[VXman]

Yes, It's a 119.

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[autorouter]

The EBL119, like many EBLs, has a dedicated voltage sensing wire from the leisure battery, with a 2A fuse at the battery. If this is not connected (if the fuse is pulled for example) the EBL will simply not switch on. So that's one of the fuses accounted for. The 50A fuse is obviously the main supply feed to/from the leisure battery. I don't know what the other two fuses are. Maybe one is the D+ signal, which is supposed to have a 2A fuse on it, but I would have thought it would be near the starter battery, not the leisure battery.

Actually there are two fridge relays built into the EBL119, but only one is used, depending on what type of fridge you have. If it's an AES (Automatic Energy Selector) or a compressor fridge, the power comes out of the 4-way connector Block 1 pin 4. Otherwise it comes out of pin 1 of that connector. So you could see if there is power to either of those pins when the engine is running.

The power for the fridge comes into the EBL on the 5-way connector Block 2 pin 1. That should be powered all the time, even if the engine is not running. It is a direct wire to the starter battery, with a 20A fuse near the starter battery. So worth checking at the EBL connector.

 

[VXman]

Sorted! A bit of user error I'm afraid. It turns out it was either the 20 amp or the 1 amp the fuse next to the leisure battery that was the issue. I had been doing some work under the seat on the batteries and had obviously removed a 20 amp and dropped it under the battery and forgotten about it. The 1 amp must have blown when I put it back into the wrong (20 amp) slot.

Fridge now switching over to the battery when the engine is started.

So one or both of those fuses is clearly related to the fridge changeover. Everyone has been saying the fridge is linked to the starter battery. 'confused'

Why do Burstner not label these fuses (and those connected to the starter battery) in their manual or where they are installed, instead of making you guess or deduce what they are there for!

 

[autorouter]

So one or both of those fuses is clearly related to the fridge changeover. Everyone has been saying the fridge is linked to the starter battery. 'confused'

The fridge 12V element should be powered from the starter battery when the engine is running. It usually has a 20A fuse, near the starter battery. However the fridge relay is triggered by the D+ signal, which on the EBL119 wiring diagram has a 2A fuse. It doesn't say where it is, except that it is not one of the EBL fuses on the front panel, and is outside the EBL somewhere. So it could be mounted near the leisure battery, for convenience since there are already a couple of fuses there already.

If there is no D+ signal (if for example you have pulled the fuse) then the fridge relay and the split charge relay will both stop working. The D+ signal should be about 12V when the engine is running, and near zero when the engine is stopped.

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[VXman]

The fridge 12V element should be powered from the starter battery when the engine is running. It usually has a 20A fuse, near the starter battery. However the fridge relay is triggered by the D+ signal, which on the EBL119 wiring diagram has a 2A fuse. It doesn't say where it is, except that it is not one of the EBL fuses on the front panel, and is outside the EBL somewhere. So it could be mounted near the leisure battery, for convenience since there are already a couple of fuses there already.

If there is no D+ signal (if for example you have pulled the fuse) then the fridge relay and the split charge relay will both stop working. The D+ signal should be about 12V when the engine is running, and near zero when the engine is stopped.

So checked a few things as I would really like to understand what does what and while the fridge is working on battery and electric is still doesn't work on gas even though the flame lights and stays on - permanently. It may be nothing to do with the electics but maybe the fridge itself. anyway....

The 2 amp fuse ny the leisure battery is for the 12V electrics generally and switches everything off when pulled via the EBL.

The 20 amp shows a permanent 12 v supply.

The 1 amp shows 0.5V with the engine off and 500mV when engine is on. Any ideas on that???

 

[Brains]

Be aware that on most/many modern fridges.

They only work on 12v off the battery when the engine is running.

They only work on electricity, 240v, when the EHU is plugged into the mains.

When the engine is stopped, and there is no 240v mains electricity, then they revert to gas.
There is a 15 minute wait after the engine has been stopped before the pilot light will ignite and the gas flows.
This is to ensure that if you stop for fuel, the pilot light does not come on in a fuel station!
(Also the fridge will only work on gas, if there is gas in the bottle and the valve(s) have been opened!)

I'm sure someone will be along soon to say their DIY fitted fridge does not work that way ......

 

[VXman]

Be aware that on most/many modern fridges.

They only work on 12v off the battery when the engine is running.

They only work on electricity, 240v, when the EHU is plugged into the mains.

When the engine is stopped, and there is no 240v mains electricity, then they revert to gas.
There is a 15 minute wait after the engine has been stopped before the pilot light will ignite and the gas flows.
This is to ensure that if you stop for fuel, the pilot light does not come on in a fuel station!
(Also the fridge will only work on gas, if there is gas in the bottle and the valve(s) have been opened!)

I'm sure someone will be along soon to say their DIY fitted fridge does not work that way ......

Yes, aware of all of this and all that is ok. Just not cooling on gas , even though there is a good flame.

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[Brains]

Yes, aware of all of this and all that is ok. Just not cooling on gas , even though there is a good flame.

• Door closed ? (Many have a catch to keep the door open a crack for winter storage, which needs to be flipped)
• 2 x external vents open (Many come with winter covers that need to be removed or opened
• Are the vents in the shade ? Some don't like direct sunshine
• Is the temp gauge set to max ?
• Does the light in the fridge work ?
• Is the fridge level, many don't like even the smallest slope, especially if struggling to get to temperature
• It can help to put freezer blocks in, or fill with frozen or very cold drinks, as some struggle to get to temperature, but are OK once they are chilled down.

 

[VXman]

Yes, done all this. Spent days on the drive testing everything, measuring temps. Ect.

Freezing and cooling on EHU OK but not on Gas. Gas is igniting and burning (constantly) but not cooling at all. Tried on various temps, uncovered vents, in shade.

Did have a problem on switchover to battery but that is sorted now


It has worked fine on gas previously in much warmer and on less perfect levels.

 

[GeoffnDee]

VXman It seems that the Thetford 3**** series fridges not only have a power control module but also a Burner control module maybe this is the problem ?
There is a useful trouble shooting guide for the Thetford fridge in the recent post --N3000 series Thetford fridge not cooling---added on by Graham of Madrid

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[autorouter]

The fact that it works OK on 240V and 12V indicates that the cooling circuit is working fine. Anything that applies the correct amount of heat (about 200W) in the correct area of the cooling circuit will cause the cooling to work.

So maybe the flame is present but is too small to have the required effect. That can be a number of causes, mostly resolved by cleaning and servicing that bit of the fridge, including the flue.

 

[Lenny HB]

Be aware that on most/many modern fridges.

They only work on 12v off the battery when the engine is running.

Most German Vans the fridge will run of the hab battery when battery is selected on the fridge. Every van we have had does that.

 

[VXman]

The fact that it works OK on 240V and 12V indicates that the cooling circuit is working fine. Anything that applies the correct amount of heat (about 200W) in the correct area of the cooling circuit will cause the cooling to work.

So maybe the flame is present but is too small to have the required effect. That can be a number of causes, mostly resolved by cleaning and servicing that bit of the fridge, including the flue.

It's very odd. It's a new van (March) so nothing should need cleaning/servicing. The flame is really strong and the pipe/fins at the top hare getting hot (assume because they are extracting warm air?) so in theory it should be working??? I am not a expert on absorption fridges but from what I understand this is all that needs to happen to make it work.

The gas doesn't ever switch off - I assume if it was working properly the gas would switch off when the fridge dips to the correct temperature?

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