24v LED on 12v system? Possible?

[rolandsaven]

I have a 12v system in my motorhome and planning on installing 24v LED strips, however, I'm unsure whether I would need an isolated or a non-isolated boost converter.

I'll be using roughly 5 meters of LED (24W per meter).

I would go for a non-isolated converter as this is not a critical application and we're only talking about direct current. However, I'd like somebody to confirm my thinking.

So my questions.

1. Isolated or Non-Isolated 12v to 24v Boost Converter? (Victron Orion)
2. I might add a PWM Dimmer in the 24v circuit. Does that change anything?
3. I do have 230V AC in my motorhome (from an inverter). Would it be a better choice of using a simple LED Driver that converts AC to DC?

Thank you in advance

 

[eddie]

Cheapest would be to buy some 12 volt LED strips? both financially and from a power efficiency point of view.

Loads available for not a lot of money on line

 

[tonka]

WHY ???
Just buy 12v LED strip it's not expensive.

Any other way not only adds to the cost and complication but also increases the power consumption.

 

[The Wino]

I'm just thinking why 24v too there must be a reason what is it? and why do you need 120w of led light about the same as 800w of old fashioned light bulbs are you taking on Blackpool as an attraction!!!!

 

[eddie]

I'm just thinking why 24v too there must be a reason what is it? and why do you need 120w of led light about the same as 800w of old fashioned light bulbs are you taking on Blackpool as an attraction!!!!

I though the same, then thought that perhaps the OP had "acquired" them and wanted to try to use them.

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[rolandsaven]

I'd like to use a led strip that is "no-spotting" or "seamless". So that there are no "black spots" when I look at it. There is not much distance between the LED and the actual plastic diffuser in the aluminum profile. (couple of mm) So an average LED strip reminds me of a Christmas tree... Therefore, I need something that comes with a very short distance between the LEDs and I'm guessing at least 240LEDs per meter. I could not find one that is 12V unfortunately.... Others ideas are welcomed.

 

[The Wino]

I'd like to use a led strip that is "no-spotting" or "seamless". So that there are no "black spots" when I look at it. There is not much distance between the LED and the actual plastic diffuser in the aluminum profile. (couple of mm) So an average LED strip reminds me of a Christmas tree... Therefore, I need something that comes with a very short distance between the LEDs and I'm guessing at least 240LEDs per meter. I could not find one that is 12V unfortunately.... Others ideas are welcomed.

Is it dimmable if not you could need sunglasses all the time!!!

 

[Richard n Ann]

If there's an even number of strips, wire them in pairs in series

 

[Two on Tour]

Have a look at what these guys have got to offer. looking at the LED spacing on there images of the LED strips I would think it is not physically possible to fit 240 LED's per metre.

https://www.ledkia.com/uk/24-buy-led-strips

 

[hilldweller]

an isolated or a non-isolated boost converter.

No problem. Cheapest non isolated one that fits the bill.

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[Wissel]

I'd use something simple like this:


It will take the varying voltage from your van and output a steady voltage you've set. I used one to power a 19.5v monitor for 5 years.

The one linked is a 2A max model, but larger ones are available.

 

[rolandsaven]

Is it dimmable if not you could need sunglasses all the time!!!

I know it'll be bright but do you think it will be that bright? It is sooo difficult to choose such thing from the web...

 

[rolandsaven]

Have a look at what these guys have got to offer. looking at the LED spacing on there images of the LED strips I would think it is not physically possible to fit 240 LED's per metre.

https://www.ledkia.com/uk/24-buy-led-strips

Thanks for the site, I'll look at their products.

Well, there are not many around for sure. This is the one that I was looking at. (see link below) It is pretty much spotless but it might be too much as you guys are saying. Can't decide though...

 

[Two on Tour]

How about throwing one of these into the mix to get the light level you want.
I'm using these to control the light levels to suit our mood on the new awning LED lights I have recently fitted.

https://www.atenlighting.co.uk/dimmer-switchb.html

They also sell this type as well.

https://www.atenlighting.co.uk/led-dimmer-rc.html

 

[rolandsaven]

No problem. Cheapest non isolated one that fits the bill.

I'd use something simple like this:


It will take the varying voltage from your van and output a steady voltage you've set. I used one to power a 19.5v monitor for 5 years.

The one linked is a 2A max model, but larger ones are available.

Thanks, that is great to hear that I don't have to go with the expensive ones. I was afraid that they might just blow up/overheat/catch fire. Definitely not something I'd like in the van.

Other than the Victron Orions, I was also looking at this model but I don't really know what case I would make for it. Something might better fit the purpose.

Also, do you think guys should I go stepping up 12v DC to 24 DC or stepping down 230v AC to 24v DC?

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[The Wino]

I know it'll be bright but do you think it will be that bright? It is sooo difficult to choose such thing from the web...

Im no lighting engineer but know a bit. As a general rule 10w of LED are equivalent to 100w of ordinary old fashioned bulbs so yours at 120w total will be the same as 12 100w bulbs in a motorhome!!!!!. I think each meter of the ones you are looking at are the equivalent of a 5' fluorescent like a lot of people used to have in their kitchen.

 

[hilldweller]

Something might better fit the purpose.

That looks "proper job" and easy to mount.

No way do you want to start at 240V, you don't have 240V a lot of the time. You certainly don't want to be running an inverter continuously for lighting.

 

[Wissel]

Agree with @hilldweller - looks ideal.

It has a variable input of 9v-20v and delivers 24v, plus rated at 10A.

I'd order that if looking to do the same.

 

[hilldweller]

Agree with @hilldweller - looks ideal.

When I wrote " don't go 240V" I nearly added "unless your name is Wissel". Though even you probably stick to 12V for lighting.

Now Mr Wino has thrown a spanner in the works, so much light he will get a tan. Question is, are 24V dimmers readily available.

I have to say, going 24V is adding potential problems to a very simple system. 12V available easily, I doubt 24V are.

PS: I see that ToT has posted 24V dimmers, I stand corrected. They are very neat too.

 

[Wissel]

When I wrote " don't go 240V" I nearly added "unless your name is Wissel". Though even you probably stick to 12V for lighting.

Yep, still 12v lighting and most other things.

240v is just the fridge, PC, monitors, Type C chargers, router, printer, Tassimo - actually quite a bit

It's really not as mad as it sounds. Think once more adopt LiFePO4 it will become more normal. Especially with full timers who use a lot of electrical gear for work etc.

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[The Wino]

When I wrote " don't go 240V" I nearly added "unless your name is Wissel". Though even you probably stick to 12V for lighting.

Now Mr Wino has thrown a spanner in the works, so much light he will get a tan. Question is, are 24V dimmers readily available.

I have to say, going 24V is adding potential problems to a very simple system. 12V available easily, I doubt 24V are.

PS: I see that ToT has posted 24V dimmers, I stand corrected. They are very neat too.

First thing to do is check the 24 strip is dimmable (I think some are only on or off) then I would just phone aten to get an idea of what total wattage of LED's are advisable in a m/h of your size I think it would be daft to fit them if they are constantly going to be dimmed right down or how this would affect the life of them and the dimmer/the power used/any risk of overheating/the cable size needed at 12v to the converter etc. I recon I must sound a right eyore but when I do a project its sometimes useful to have any drawbacks considered at the start so good luck with it all.

David

 

[mitzimad]

i find leds are best mounted facing away from your eyes so the light is reflected

 

[rolandsaven]

That looks "proper job" and easy to mount.

No way do you want to start at 240V, you don't have 240V a lot of the time. You certainly don't want to be running an inverter continuously for lighting.

True on that.

 

[rolandsaven]

Yep, still 12v lighting and most other things.

240v is just the fridge, PC, monitors, Type C chargers, router, printer, Tassimo - actually quite a bit

It's really not as mad as it sounds. Think once more adopt LiFePO4 it will become more normal. Especially with full timers who use a lot of electrical gear for work etc.

I have similar system, spoken to @Wissel on another forum, but I do have a thread here about my system. I went with LiFePO4 too as I’m a full timer, it is definitely recommended.

 

[hilldweller]

First thing to do is check the 24 strip is dimmable
David

Yes. Ironically it's the better ones with switch mode control that probably won't be. You can feed them 10-24V and the light will be constant but the current decreases as the voltage rises, which comes as a shock to see it for the first time. This mainly applies to the bog standard bulb replacement modules.

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[rolandsaven]

i find leds are best mounted facing away from your eyes so the light is reflected

The aluminium LED cases in mine are installed in the ceiling but I could only use ones that have roughly 8mm depth. So that is why I’m having a problem. It’s not directly facing towards my eyes but I could slightly see the spots and it’s pretty annoying. I was wondering if there is any diffuser material that I can put in between the LED strip and the plastic cover that would help and does not catch fire?

 

[tonyidle]

I'd like to use a led strip that is "no-spotting" or "seamless". So that there are no "black spots" when I look at it. There is not much distance between the LED and the actual plastic diffuser in the aluminum profile. (couple of mm) So an average LED strip reminds me of a Christmas tree... Therefore, I need something that comes with a very short distance between the LEDs and I'm guessing at least 240LEDs per meter. I could not find one that is 12V unfortunately.... Others ideas are welcomed.

How long is the strip you need?

 

[rolandsaven]

How long is the strip you need?

roughly 5m (2x1m and 3x70cm)