2007 Ducato 130 odd electrical issues

[Headrush]

Hi, hope you're all well in these trying times.

As we're all locked down, we decided to wash the van this weekend and then pretend we were away in the back garden.

I started the van as I needed to move it to get at both sides. It's not been started since January and I'm pretty sure it has heater plug problems. It started eventually however.

The problem is, the wipers, washers and rh indicators are all operating, without me touching anything. I started removing fuses once I found out which does what and where they're hidden. Can't find a fuse for the indicators and can't find the relay either even though I can hear it.

While playing with the stalk hoping the problem might magically disappear, I turned main beam on, which would then not turn off!

This leads me to suspect something under the cover of the steering column but have neither the knowledge or inclination to start playing around in there.
Anyone had similar issues and found an easy fix?

The van is an Auto Trail cheyenne se 640.

Cheers

Alan

 

[Figaro]

Is it a x244 or x250 Ducato ?
I think knowing that will help the technical bods to assist.
Have you looked at the wiring for mice damage ?

 

[Landy Andy]

If it’s all been fine until now, it is a bit odd to have suddenly happened. So as mentioned I would look for signs of mice, and check that you haven’t got water somewhere it shouldn’t be, such as the under bonnet fuse box.

 

[Headrush]

Is it a x244 or x250 Ducato ?
I think knowing that will help the technical bods to assist.
Have you looked at the wiring for mice damage ?

I believe its x250, at least it has 250CEMAD as the version on the plate under the bonnet.

 

[Headrush]

If it’s all been fine until now, it is a bit odd to have suddenly happened. So as mentioned I would look for signs of mice, and check that you haven’t got water somewhere it shouldn’t be, such as the under bonnet fuse box.

Thanks, I've been in the fuse box under the bonnet and it's all dry in there. No signs of mice that I can see.
I initially suspected water as the last few months have been excessively raining but nothing I can find is damp or contains water. I've had the rear light lenses off, bone dry. All exterior lighting works as intended.
For the list of affected items, there must be a close connection between them, which is why I suspect the steering column switch gear.

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[Wagoneer]

Firstly, are sure the engine battery is fully charged. If so, I would investigate the notorious Fiat "rusty junction".

There are lots of wires coming out the bottom of the ECU/fuse box. This bunch of wires are bound up with tape. This fat loom dips down then up again forming a valley where corrosion can occur (called rusty junction). Suggest you gently wiggle the U-bend to check if any of your problems disappear. If so, you'll need to unwrap the tape (at the U-bend) and inspect each wire for corrosion.

 

[Headrush]

Firstly, are sure the engine battery is fully charged. If so, I would investigate the notorious Fiat "rusty junction".

There are lots of wires coming out the bottom of the ECU/fuse box. This bunch of wires are bound up with tape. This fat loom dips down then up again forming a valley where corrosion can occur (called rusty junction). Suggest you gently wiggle the U-bend to check if any of your problems disappear. If so, you'll need to unwrap the tape (at the U-bend) and inspect each wire for corrosion.

Is this loom located in the engine compartment?
I can only get my hands on it by lying under the front of the van. If its the one I think you mean, it looks like it might have been accessed before because there are only 3 or 4 sections of electrical tape holding the loom together. I've tried wiggling it with the ignition on but the problems persist. Plus I get wet from the washer fluid ?

 

[Headrush]

Thanks for the hints guys. My eyes aren't good enough at that range to see any problems, so I think the best I can do is cut the tape holding the loom together and try to find any damage by feeling the wires. Hopefully none of them are live while the ignition is off.

 

[TheBig1]

I had similar issues caused by water in the bottom of the fusebox on the uk nearside inner wing. However the lights, indicators and wipers are all also connected to the canbus, controlled by the body control module. That could be as simple as a corroded earth point

 

[Wagoneer]

Firstly, are sure the engine battery is fully charged. If so, I would investigate the notorious Fiat "rusty junction".

There are lots of wires coming out the bottom of the ECU/fuse box. This bunch of wires are bound up with tape. This fat loom dips down then up again forming a valley where corrosion can occur (called rusty junction). Suggest you gently wiggle the U-bend to check if any of your problems disappear. If so, you'll need to unwrap the tape (at the U-bend) and inspect each wire for corrosion.

Thanks for the hints guys. My eyes aren't good enough at that range to see any problems, so I think the best I can do is cut the tape holding the loom together and try to find any damage by feeling the wires. Hopefully none of them are live while the ignition is off.

I would disconnect the engine battery, to be 100% safe.

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[Wagoneer]

I had similar issues caused by water in the bottom of the fusebox on the uk nearside inner wing. However the lights, indicators and wipers are all also connected to the canbus, controlled by the body control module. That could be as simple as a corroded earth point

Good point TheBig1 . Suggest the OP connects a starter cable between engine block and chassis or neg of starter battery.

 

[Headrush]

Firstly, are sure the engine battery is fully charged. If so, I would investigate the notorious Fiat "rusty junction".

The gauge in the hab unit is showing 13.6v for the vehicle battery. Would that be classed as fully charged?

 

[Wagoneer]

The gauge in the hab unit is showing 13.6v for the vehicle battery. Would that be classed as fully charged?

The resting voltage of the vehicle battery should be between 12.6 and 12.9v, fully charged. Sounds like you have the battery charger in operation.

 

[Headrush]

Good point TheBig1 . Suggest the OP connects a starter cable between engine block and chassis or neg of starter battery.

Good tip. Tried a couple of points on the engine and gearbox but no change.

 

[Headrush]

The resting voltage of the vehicle battery should be between 12.6 and 12.9v, fully charged. Sounds like you have the battery charger in operation.

Yes, it's on the hook up.

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[Campervan_man]

If the engine battery is under the floor by the passenger feet check the midi fuses are ok as if they go the van electrics will behave erratically. Have your engine battery load tested. It could be 13 years old { 2007 van } and a duff battery will also cause problems.

 

[Headrush]

If the engine battery is under the floor by the passenger feet check the midi fuses are ok as if they go the van electrics will behave erratically. Have your engine battery load tested. It could be 13 years old { 2007 van } and a duff battery will also cause problems.

Are the midi fuses under the plastic cover attached to the positive terminal? If so, they all show good continuity. The battery hasn't been dated for installation...
It's showing over 14v on the hab gauge now. I disconnected the hook up but I have solar panels too, so I think they're feeding it. The indicator on the battery is green, can't get it load tested under present circumstances. Might have to take it to the works garage when I get chance. It has enough power to cold crank the engine until it fires up (heater plug problem I think).
Parted the loom and had a good feel around. Nothing obvious and I've definitely disturbed the original order. Tried the ignition and all issues still present.

 

[Headrush]

Having a break from it for a bit. Dog needs a walk, and I need a beer ?

 

[csd4t]

Bit of info on the fuses

 

[Headrush]

Bit of info on the fuses

Thanks, mine looks very similar. Resistance is zero on all fuses.

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[Deneb]

All of these functions are controlled by the body computer. Try a reset, but note that you must follow these instructions to the letter, which included disconnecting the vehicle battery from inside the van with all of the doors closed and having been closed for at least three minutes.

If that doesn't help, you likely have an earth or other wiring problem.

This is from the Peugeot Boxer manual, but it's equally applicable to all Sevel vans:

BSI (Body System Interface) Reboot Procedure

PROCEDURE FOR BATTERY DISCONNECTION

Whenever a vehicle battery has to be disconnected, switch off all equipment, interior lights etc, close the doors leaving the driver’s window open.

Switch off the ignition and remove the key and any diagnostic equipment.

Wait a full 3 minutes before disconnecting the battery.

The BSi must be allowed to go to SLEEP i.e. into "active economy mode". Do not operate any equipment on the vehicle during this time. Remember, even opening the bonnet will wake the BSi on a vehicle fitted with alarm.

ALWAYS disconnect any diagnostic equipment and do not operate any other vehicle equipment during the 3 minute waiting period.

PROCEDURE FOR BATTERY RECONNECTION

Unless otherwise instructed by Peugeot or Product Service, you must always carry out the following procedure, often referred to as a "soft re-boot", to minimize the possibility of the BSi corrupting its own software when reconnecting the vehicles battery supply.

Ensure the procedure for battery disconnection has been adhered to and importantly all BSi functions were switched off with the driver’s window left down.

1 Close all doors
2 Remove ignition key if left in ignition
3 Reconnect battery. DO NOT open any doors
4 Wait 10 seconds
5 Switch on headlights through the driver’s window
6 Switch on ignition then start the vehicle and check system functions

 

[Tribbtravs]

I had this exact problem but had the door solenoid also clicking. Fiat wanted to change the body computer for an eye watering amount. I tried disconnecting the battery and leaving for a while and did think it had cured it but the next day same thing. I took it to my local garage where one of the mechanics was a whiz at diagnosing faults. He took the drivers side fuse/relay box out. Soldered up a couple of connections and hey presto it was fixed. Very happy with only having to fork out £70 for the two hours work. He said it looked like damp or condensation had got onto it and as we use the van for skiing I could see that winter use could have been a contributing factor for condensation. As this sounds a similar problem to what I had I would look at this spot. Get some good contact cleaner and remove fuses/relays. Make sure you disconnect the battery first

 

[Headrush]

Thanks Deneb and Tribbtravs for your replies. I've now tried the soft reboot method but it didn't work.
I'm not happy taking the fuse box out myself so it may have to wait until things return to normal in the world.
Regarding the bad earth scenario, when I reconnect the battery, positive first then negative, as soon as the negative touches the terminal I hear all types of clicking noises as things get powered up. Would this help rule out a bad earth as a cause due to the circuit obviously being completed?
Thanks again
Alan

 

[Headrush]

I've also tried attaching jump leads to the engine and body. No change.

 

[TheBig1]

The earth fault mentioned is more likely one in the wiring loom near the BCM or behind the steering wheel. they are favourites for causing multiple weird faults at the same time. find the wires that go back to a threaded stud on the bodywork. Take the nut off and give the connectors a good clean and clean the paint off the base of the threaded stud, then reassemble. You could do 3 or 4 of these then suddenly find the exact one causing the issue

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[Headrush]

Ok guys, I've spent quite a bit of time on this following all your suggestions. Found and cleaned up an earth point behind the fusebox, removed all the connecting plugs on the fusebox and gave them a spray with contact cleaner (one had a couple of dirty sockets on but after cleaning no change), checked the looms that go to either door (no sign of significant chafing), found a dodgy festoon bulb on a top marker and removed it for now.

The only one I havent really explored thoroughly is the rusty junction. There are two separate bundles in that area and as far as I can tell the fatter of the two appears ok. The thinner bundle is a bit further to reach from underneath so if I can get at it I will try.
Wanted to remove the shroud around the steering column. Am I in any danger of setting the airbag off doing that?

Getting quite close to calling a professional in now....

On another point, I ordered and received a manual on cd. I can't believe I have to dismantle the front of the van to get at the heater plugs!

 

[TheBig1]

On another point, I ordered and received a manual on cd. I can't believe I have to dismantle the front of the van to get at the heater plugs!

that is a shame, could have sent you a link to download it free

 

[pappajohn]

I had micky's in my RV.
Not only had they chewed the air con wiring behind the control panel the little b&stards had stolen some.
The tape and ½ dozen wires chewed right through and trying to rejoin them two of them had 5" or 6" missing.
You can't join two wires if they don't reach each other.
They'd also chewed through the furnace (heater) wiring.
Never underestimate what a mouse can and will destroy.

 

[Gellyneck]

had 5" or 6" missing

Just like most other male Funsters!

 

[Lenny HB]

Found and cleaned up an earth point behind the fusebox

It's the braided earth strap from gearbox to chassis that causes problems and often needs replacing.

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