12v 200amp relay wanted (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter olley
- Start date
Have you got any more info please Olley.
There are 2 AD-244 alternators.
Max amperage should indentify.
Here's a choice of regs.
14 230-12159† 10458201 REGULATOR, 12V, OEM Style, P-L-F-S Terminals, 2.5 sec. LRC, 14.8V Set Point
230-12163† 10458198 REGULATOR, 12V, OEM Style, P-L-F-S Terminals, 10 sec. LRC, 14.8V Set Point
230-12164† 10458203 REGULATOR, 12V, OEM Style, P-L-F-S Terminals, 10 sec. LRC, 14.8V Set Point
230-12167† 10458202 REGULATOR, 12V, OEM Style, P-L-F-S Terminals, 2.5 sec. LRC, 14.2V Set Point
230-12173+† 10458199 REGULATOR, 12V, Taditel T Series, P-L-F-S Terms., 2.5 sec. LRC, 14.8V Set Point
230-12180+† REGULATOR, 12V, Taditel T Series, P-L-F-S Terms., 2.5 sec. LRC, 14.8V Set Point
230-12181+† REGULATOR, 12V, Taditel T Series, P-L-F-S Terms., 10 sec. LRC, 15.1V Set Point
230-12182+† REGULATOR, 12V, Taditel T Series, P-L-F-S Terms., 2.5 sec. LRC, 14.2V Set Point
230-12183+† REGULATOR, 12V, Taditel T Series, P-L-F-S Terms., 10 sec. LRC, 14.8V Set Point
There are 2 AD-244 alternators.
Max amperage should indentify.
Here's a choice of regs.
14 230-12159† 10458201 REGULATOR, 12V, OEM Style, P-L-F-S Terminals, 2.5 sec. LRC, 14.8V Set Point
230-12163† 10458198 REGULATOR, 12V, OEM Style, P-L-F-S Terminals, 10 sec. LRC, 14.8V Set Point
230-12164† 10458203 REGULATOR, 12V, OEM Style, P-L-F-S Terminals, 10 sec. LRC, 14.8V Set Point
230-12167† 10458202 REGULATOR, 12V, OEM Style, P-L-F-S Terminals, 2.5 sec. LRC, 14.2V Set Point
230-12173+† 10458199 REGULATOR, 12V, Taditel T Series, P-L-F-S Terms., 2.5 sec. LRC, 14.8V Set Point
230-12180+† REGULATOR, 12V, Taditel T Series, P-L-F-S Terms., 2.5 sec. LRC, 14.8V Set Point
230-12181+† REGULATOR, 12V, Taditel T Series, P-L-F-S Terms., 10 sec. LRC, 15.1V Set Point
230-12182+† REGULATOR, 12V, Taditel T Series, P-L-F-S Terms., 2.5 sec. LRC, 14.2V Set Point
230-12183+† REGULATOR, 12V, Taditel T Series, P-L-F-S Terms., 10 sec. LRC, 14.8V Set Point
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Hi 45, thanks very interesting, I thought mine set at 14.90 was an odd one, but from that list it appears 14.2v is the odd one. Pity I didn't see that list before; I might have been tempted to get the regulator, but having come so far down this road I will stick with it.
Possibilty for the future though, but how would you source the part?
Olley
Possibilty for the future though, but how would you source the part?
Olley
Olley, when you buy batteries, you need to match them to your alternator output voltage.
Some UK batteries carry the warning to only connect to alternators with 16V output.
My local garage fitted them to any car that wanted a new battery.
Most of our batteries work best on a 14.4v alternator.
The difference between 14.2 and 14.4 volts is quite substantial.
Probably around 20%.
If you wish to know the ins and outs, ask, but I will have to gen up first.
To get one, you phone a company in the States, give them your part no and your card no, and your reg arrives by pony express.
Depending on the price, you may have to pay UK tax.
Some UK batteries carry the warning to only connect to alternators with 16V output.
My local garage fitted them to any car that wanted a new battery.
Most of our batteries work best on a 14.4v alternator.
The difference between 14.2 and 14.4 volts is quite substantial.
Probably around 20%.
If you wish to know the ins and outs, ask, but I will have to gen up first.
To get one, you phone a company in the States, give them your part no and your card no, and your reg arrives by pony express.
Depending on the price, you may have to pay UK tax.
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Hi 45 diode came today, I ordered an anode base so I could bolt it directly on the the battery post via a nice piece of finned ali I already had, quick temporary connection and it works like a charm
Engine starts ok and the battery isn't being charged unless I connect the other terminal of my split charge diode, so hopefully after I finish wiring it in properly, that will solve my battery problems for a while.
Olley
Engine starts ok and the battery isn't being charged unless I connect the other terminal of my split charge diode, so hopefully after I finish wiring it in properly, that will solve my battery problems for a while.
Olley
pappajohn
LIFE MEMBER
if i remember correctly Olley, alternators dont like running without a load on 'em....ie not connected to battery.....
could be wrong as its a few lifetimes ago i learnt that.
could be wrong as its a few lifetimes ago i learnt that.
Please let us know how you get on Olley?
You did have your alternator connected to your house batteries when you ran the engine didn't you?
You did have your alternator connected to your house batteries when you ran the engine didn't you?
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Hi don't you guys read post's?? 
about 600 post's back on this thread I explained about the split charge diode, and how the alternator was now charging the house batteries at a nice 14.2 volts.
Its a sterling 160amp split charge, 1 feed in, 2 feeds out. See here: Link Removed
Olley
about 600 post's back on this thread I explained about the split charge diode, and how the alternator was now charging the house batteries at a nice 14.2 volts.Its a sterling 160amp split charge, 1 feed in, 2 feeds out. See here: Link Removed
Olley
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pappajohn
LIFE MEMBER
Hi don't you guys read post's??
Its a sterling 160amp split charge, 1 feed in, 2 feeds out. See here: Link Removed
Olley
read it all Olley but too technical for me.....id just whack it til it worked....or stick a 6v battery next to you 12v......you aint gonna overcharge 18v are you...
Hi papa here's a drawing which may make it clearer, then again it may not. 
Simples
Olley
Simples
Olley
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Olley, the voltages on your circuit diagram bewilder me.
If you have a normal 12 volt starter battery, the maximum voltage you will get at the battery during starting will be say 11 volts.
Further, You appear to have 2 feeds from your alternator to your starter battery.
One via the splitter diode.
One by direct connection along what you call 'motor services'.
Your storage battery will get 14.9 along the motor services connection, which is high enough to "boil" the water off from your starter battery.
If you detach the service connection between the alternator to diode cable and the battery to starter cable,
and leave the diode connection to the starter battery,
you will get 14.2 volts at your starter battery.
Nothing in your diagram explains why you are destroying house batteries.
14.2 volts at your storage batteries isn't the very best, 14.4v would be better, but it certainly won't destroy your batteries.
I suggest you look elsewhere for a solution to your batteries short life?
You do leave them hooked up to a an intelligent mains battery charger when you MH isn't in use don't you?
Leaving batteries without a maintenance charge for more than a month is a sure way to kill them.
Unfortunately, there are lots of other ways as well.
The old idea that one should flatten batteris occasionally to give them work to do also destroys batteries.
Most batteries start to self-destruct rapidly when they go below 50% charge.
If you have a normal 12 volt starter battery, the maximum voltage you will get at the battery during starting will be say 11 volts.
Further, You appear to have 2 feeds from your alternator to your starter battery.
One via the splitter diode.
One by direct connection along what you call 'motor services'.
Your storage battery will get 14.9 along the motor services connection, which is high enough to "boil" the water off from your starter battery.
If you detach the service connection between the alternator to diode cable and the battery to starter cable,
and leave the diode connection to the starter battery,
you will get 14.2 volts at your starter battery.
Nothing in your diagram explains why you are destroying house batteries.
14.2 volts at your storage batteries isn't the very best, 14.4v would be better, but it certainly won't destroy your batteries.
I suggest you look elsewhere for a solution to your batteries short life?
You do leave them hooked up to a an intelligent mains battery charger when you MH isn't in use don't you?
Leaving batteries without a maintenance charge for more than a month is a sure way to kill them.
Unfortunately, there are lots of other ways as well.
The old idea that one should flatten batteris occasionally to give them work to do also destroys batteries.
Most batteries start to self-destruct rapidly when they go below 50% charge.
Hi 45 the voltages are what I get with the engine running. If you look at my drawing you will see that their is a diode inbetween the battery and "Motor sevices". Diodes allow electricity to flow in one direction only; (Anode to Cathode) shown by the direction of the arrow. (Same as a check valve in plumbing)
So while it prevents electricity from reaching the battery, it does not prevent the battery powering "Motor services" when the engine is not running. Thus the chassis battery can; and does start the engine.
Therefore the only charging feed is via the Sterling split charger, which is just two diodes in a nice heatsink, and give a nice .7 voltage drop. Hope that explains it.
And I have a 50amp Sterling Pro digital 4 stage charger, hard wired into the RV to look after the batteries on hook up.
Olley
So while it prevents electricity from reaching the battery, it does not prevent the battery powering "Motor services" when the engine is not running. Thus the chassis battery can; and does start the engine.
Therefore the only charging feed is via the Sterling split charger, which is just two diodes in a nice heatsink, and give a nice .7 voltage drop. Hope that explains it.
And I have a 50amp Sterling Pro digital 4 stage charger, hard wired into the RV to look after the batteries on hook up.
Olley
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Olley, your circuit diagram shows a wire between motor services and 14.9v
It shows another wire between alternator and diode.
Do they connect where they cross, or are they seperate?
According to the conventions I know, a small circle shows they connect.
In other words, your diagram tells me you have a direct connection between alternator and storage battery
Plus an indirect connection through your check valve, diode.
In plumbing terms, your header tank (alternator) feeds a four way union.
Motor services.
Check valve
Storage battery.
Which kinda makes your check valve redundant.
If you diagram works according to the conventions I know, you need a stop cock in the feed from union to storage battery.
Nice charger you've got there, wish I could afford one.
It shows another wire between alternator and diode.
Do they connect where they cross, or are they seperate?
According to the conventions I know, a small circle shows they connect.
In other words, your diagram tells me you have a direct connection between alternator and storage battery
Plus an indirect connection through your check valve, diode.
In plumbing terms, your header tank (alternator) feeds a four way union.
Motor services.
Check valve
Storage battery.
Which kinda makes your check valve redundant.
If you diagram works according to the conventions I know, you need a stop cock in the feed from union to storage battery.
Nice charger you've got there, wish I could afford one.
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Hi 45 their are three diodes, two in the split charge, and one in wire between the starter and Chassis battery, so the alternator cannot charge the battery via this route, the only charging route is through the split charge diode, which as I have said gives approx. .7 of a volt drop.
You are correct, standard symbols are a circle for a connnection which is shown, but I have overlooked this where the wire joins the battery to starter wire.
I can assure you it works as I have stated, this is verified by my Xantex battery monitor and my digital multimeter, althrough they disagree slightly on the exact voltage.
When I finish the installation; hopefully this afternoon I will post a picture which may make it clearer.
Olley
You are correct, standard symbols are a circle for a connnection which is shown, but I have overlooked this where the wire joins the battery to starter wire.
I can assure you it works as I have stated, this is verified by my Xantex battery monitor and my digital multimeter, althrough they disagree slightly on the exact voltage.
When I finish the installation; hopefully this afternoon I will post a picture which may make it clearer.
Olley
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Good luck with your installation Olley.
I've no doubt that your meters give you the correct voltage readings, but I'm baffled how you can 14.9v out of a 12 volt battery when you only fill it at 14.2 volts.
Have you by any chance got one of the new generation of 7 cell, nominal 14v; actual 14.9v batteries?.
Incidentally, I thought you had overlooked the circle accidentally rather than deliberately.
I've no doubt that your meters give you the correct voltage readings, but I'm baffled how you can 14.9v out of a 12 volt battery when you only fill it at 14.2 volts.
Have you by any chance got one of the new generation of 7 cell, nominal 14v; actual 14.9v batteries?.
Incidentally, I thought you had overlooked the circle accidentally rather than deliberately.
Hi 45 I don't have 14.9v coming out of the batteries, as I have already said, those voltages are with the alternator running, I don't understand why you would think otherwise? Especially when you consider the whole thread is about my attempts to reduce the output of my alternator from 14.9v. I think the drawings are basic but quite clear.
Without the alternator running battery voltages would be around 13v depending on the state of charge. House services would be at house battery potential, while chassis services voltage be at chassis battery potential; less the voltage drop across the diode.
Olley
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Olley, I thought otherwize because I understood from you that there was no connection between the alternator and the starter.
There is a small gap on your ciruit diagram.
If your alternator is connected to your starter?
If you cut the service wire near the alternator to split diode wire, and reconnect it to your starter battery, you will get 14.2 to your engine services.
If you detach the alternator wire to starter wire at the starter, you won't get 14.2 volts at you starter.
You can then remove the single diode you just bought.
As I expect you have anticipated, you will need to insulate the bare ends.
The above is the correct way to wire a splitter diode.
I bet you are wondering why you should bother taking out your single diode.
Well, if you check the voltage at your alternator when you are cranking, I'll bet you find it's lower now.
I also bet that if you listen carefully, you'll realize it's cranking more slowly.
Come the cold weather, battery cranking voltage and current drop, with the added voltage drop from your diode, your starter will be struggling.
Struggling starters overheat, which shortens their service life.
On very cold mornings, you may be unable to start.
None of which is good news, unless you live in Florida.
To put things in perspective, motor enthusiasts in the States gave a whoop of joy when 7 cell 14v batteries came out.
Whoopie, here comes better starting, better winches, and better lights.
Out went the 12v batteries, in went the 14v.
Then they tricked their alternators into giving around 17 volts, or bought new alternators.
There is a small gap on your ciruit diagram.
If your alternator is connected to your starter?
If you cut the service wire near the alternator to split diode wire, and reconnect it to your starter battery, you will get 14.2 to your engine services.
If you detach the alternator wire to starter wire at the starter, you won't get 14.2 volts at you starter.
You can then remove the single diode you just bought.
As I expect you have anticipated, you will need to insulate the bare ends.
The above is the correct way to wire a splitter diode.
I bet you are wondering why you should bother taking out your single diode.
Well, if you check the voltage at your alternator when you are cranking, I'll bet you find it's lower now.
I also bet that if you listen carefully, you'll realize it's cranking more slowly.
Come the cold weather, battery cranking voltage and current drop, with the added voltage drop from your diode, your starter will be struggling.
Struggling starters overheat, which shortens their service life.
On very cold mornings, you may be unable to start.
None of which is good news, unless you live in Florida.
To put things in perspective, motor enthusiasts in the States gave a whoop of joy when 7 cell 14v batteries came out.
Whoopie, here comes better starting, better winches, and better lights.
Out went the 12v batteries, in went the 14v.
Then they tricked their alternators into giving around 17 volts, or bought new alternators.
pappajohn
LIFE MEMBER
Hi papa here's a drawing which may make it clearer, then again it may not.
Simples
Olley
i know exactly what you are trying to achieve Olley but thought it best to keep me gob shut for fear of being shot down in flames by those who know better...:Angry: (allegedly, aint google wonderful)
Hi 45 I know your only trying to help; but I think your out of your depth here. The drawing clearly shows how I intend to wire it, if you understand what a diode is; and does, then it should be obvious how the circuit will work.
I unintentionally omitted to show the connection between the wire dropping down from the alternator to the starter, but seeing as how they only miss touching by a fraction, and the wire goes nowhere else, it should be obvious that they are connected.
I know how a split charge diode or relay should be connected, however I bought it to use as a voltage dropper, not to split the chassis and house batteries, I already have a relay to do that.
RV's come with an "Emergency Start" button, which operates a relay, and joins both sets of batteries together in the event that the chassis battery is unable to start the engine, I could also start the onboard genny and add the 50amp battery charger into the pot if really pushed.
Hi papa, I'm glad someone understands what I am doing, cause I was beginning to wonder myself.
Olley
I unintentionally omitted to show the connection between the wire dropping down from the alternator to the starter, but seeing as how they only miss touching by a fraction, and the wire goes nowhere else, it should be obvious that they are connected.
I know how a split charge diode or relay should be connected, however I bought it to use as a voltage dropper, not to split the chassis and house batteries, I already have a relay to do that.
RV's come with an "Emergency Start" button, which operates a relay, and joins both sets of batteries together in the event that the chassis battery is unable to start the engine, I could also start the onboard genny and add the 50amp battery charger into the pot if really pushed.
Hi papa, I'm glad someone understands what I am doing, cause I was beginning to wonder myself.
Olley
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Hi a couple of pictures, incase its not clear the shiny thing stuck on top of the battery to the right, with the red wire coming out of it is the 600amp diode, the black box in the middle with the three red caps is the Sterling split charge diode.
The black snake like things are wires inside convoluted sleeving.
The black snake like things are wires inside convoluted sleeving.
pappajohn
LIFE MEMBER
Hi papa, I'm glad someone understands what I am doing, cause I was beginning to wonder myself.
Olley
hi Olley,
i know exactly what you are trying to acheive and why, but the means of achieving it are way beyond my knowledge.....but at least i admit it....:Blush:
Here 'tis again Olley.
The single diode in your starter cable drops the voltage to your starter when you start.
Try your voltmeter between the starter live and earth while you crank over.
That voltage drop will give problems in terms of cold weather starting and starter life.
If you follow the ciruit diagram here "http://www.leisure-electrics.co.uk/images/Wiring.PDF" you will see the way to connect up.
If you can't hack redirecting your voltage sensing lead,
put your diode in the alternator to starter cable lead
to block the flow of 14.8v current to your starter battery.
Nice neat wiring, well done.
Over and out.
The single diode in your starter cable drops the voltage to your starter when you start.
Try your voltmeter between the starter live and earth while you crank over.
That voltage drop will give problems in terms of cold weather starting and starter life.
If you follow the ciruit diagram here "http://www.leisure-electrics.co.uk/images/Wiring.PDF" you will see the way to connect up.
If you can't hack redirecting your voltage sensing lead,
put your diode in the alternator to starter cable lead
to block the flow of 14.8v current to your starter battery.
Nice neat wiring, well done.
Over and out.
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