100AH Lithium Battery £500 (1 Viewer)

[Boringfrog]

Can’t see the ad on my phone Jim
Any chance of a link to the product page

Feeling very slightly miffed as I paid £1,000 each for my 100a lithium’s last year

On my phone I can view page as desktop site, then the ads appear at the top.

 

[Pausim]

I think you are ignoring the huge price difference between the two types of battery. You could have 10 cheap lead acid batteries for the price of just one lithium, and if you add in the scrap value of each battery you could have 11. Also one needs to consider just how often one would discharge a battery down to its minimum level. This year, in 6 weeks of use of our motorhome, I've only discharged it down to that level just once. My lead acid habitation batteries should have a long happy life!

Frankly, the cost of a lithium battery today far, far outweighs any advantages it might have. Maybe if the price was down to £150 to £200 for a 100ah battery they would be worth considering. I use plenty of lithium batteries with one of my hobbies, and the experience of the last 5 years is that prices for them are on the rise not falling, so it may be a very long time before such a figure is reached, if at all.

I am not ignoring the price difference, I started my post with “I agree that the cost of LiFePO4 batteries does not add up for many users.” I have no idea how you could interpret this as ignoring the price difference.

 

[Kannon Fodda]

Given that it cost me some £600 to get a Bosch lithium battery for my e-bike, this 100ah battery at the discount would seem exceptional value

OK I get that compared to the cost of a lead-acid battery it's still a lot of money. What some may also ignore is physical space. For the capacity of the 100ah lithium you'll need two lead-acid (or something that would be unbelievably large). For many, that you only need the one battery this will be a neat solution.

What I can't get my head around is all the references to needing other bit's of kit like different battery chargers, B2B, alternator capacity or whatever. If you have to change wiring stuff, then the cost is a lot more than the lithium thing alone.

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[Jim]

I just checked and the 100AH that retails at £714 and it is coming in at under £500 when Funsters use the code. A saving of £214.20

 

[Jim]

I've just been asked if I'm earning a commission on these batteries. If I was, I would say so. Battery Megastore is paying the regular rate to advertise here. no commission is made anywhere this end on sales they make to us. Just to clear that up.

 

[eddie]

It is an amazing deal

As with all forums you get people who can’t afford, things so ‘Poo, Poo” offers and products

I have Lithium batteries and I am very pleased with the performance, i saved about 30kg in weight, near doubled mumusable capacity

Other than the price, what is not to like?

Well done Jim on getting an excellent members deal

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[Robert Clark]

Other than the price, what is not to like?

I love my lithium batteries too Eddie

Though I think potential buyers should consider their charging regime as their factory fitted charger may not suit lithium batteries

And /or their solar controllers

Do you think this is a potential issue when replacing Gel, AGM or lead acid batteries?

 

[Ivory55]

If you have to replace a charging system what sort of cost would that be. Ie on an autotrail with the Sargent system ?

 

[Lanerboy]

If you have to replace a charging system what sort of cost would that be. Ie on an autotrail with the Sargent system ?

I too am very interested in finding out about charging these batteries if what has been said that your OE charge system is not suitable what is the answer and the cost to charge them

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[eddie]

I love my lithium batteries too Eddie

Though I think potential buyers should consider their charging regime as their factory fitted charger may not suit lithium batteries

And /or their solar controllers

Do you think this is a potential issue when replacing Gel, AGM or lead acid batteries?

Every installation is different and needs consideration. Most decent modern chargers have a Lithium option and the regenerative braking/charging on new vehicles has made most Motorhome converters to consider putting proper on road charging systems in, not just plain old simple relay’s in a fancy box.

I have been away now for a Month and haven’t turned my Victron inverter charger off once despite spending probably 30% of the time without hook up

 

[Pausim]

If you have to replace a charging system what sort of cost would that be. Ie on an autotrail with the Sargent system ?

The download for the battery gives a charging voltage of 14.6V + or - 0.2V. A modern mains charger with a gel setting should be very close to that and I suspect at worst a slightly lower voltage might mean it falls a tiny bit short of a 100% full. Less than 100% full is not a problem for LiFePO4 batteries which can be stored long term at 80%.

The time you need a 100% full battery is when you are not going to have an ehu. From this I concluded that for me it is vehicle charging that is more important than mains charging. My current motorhome has a smart alternator which means that the charging voltage drops off as soon as the engine battery is full, whether or not the leisure battery still needs filling. A B2B solved this problem and also with the right profile makes sure my LiFePO4 is 100% full at the end of a journey.

 

[Wooderzz]

I have just notest they have done a blog post about these batteries well worth the read:

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[Ivory55]

It would be just my luck to pay a grand for 2 new batteries and then the charger ruins them. I can see the benefits would probably go for it if it was a newer van with the right charger.

 

[thebriars]

Given that it cost me some £600 to get a Bosch lithium battery for my e-bike, this 100ah battery at the discount would seem exceptional value

OK I get that compared to the cost of a lead-acid battery it's still a lot of money. What some may also ignore is physical space. For the capacity of the 100ah lithium you'll need two lead-acid (or something that would be unbelievably large). For many, that you only need the one battery this will be a neat solution.

Firstly my habitation batteries go under the passenger seat, and there is room for 2 100Ah lead acid batteries. Thus space not an issue, as nothing else can go under there.

Secondly, as I pointed out above, a 100Ah lithium is the same capacity as a 100Ah lead acid, and BOTH will be degraded running down to 20% or lower, so your argument for needing 2 batteries is simply not true.

 

[Wooderzz]

Firstly my habitation batteries go under the passenger seat, and there is room for 2 100Ah lead acid batteries. Thus space not an issue, as nothing else can go under there.

Secondly, as I pointed out above, a 100Ah lithium is the same capacity as a 100Ah lead acid, and BOTH will be degraded running down to 20% or lower, so your argument for needing 2 batteries is simply not true.

With Lithium, you can discharge to 100% rather than a lead-acid battery where you can only really discharge to 50% So you actually get a 100AH rather than a lead-acid battery where you get 50AH out of your 100AH

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[Armytwowheels]

This seems a great deal and for us, the benefits changing from lead acid to lithium are obvious.

We spend a lot of time off hook up, we are power hungry humans and like our coffee machine, tv, computers and hairdryer.

We our planning a ski tour this winter, rather than just one resort and will no doubt not have leccy at a lot of resorts. The quick charging aspect of the lithium's are a real draw for us, either by driving from one resort to another, 2000w generator (whisper quiet honda before anyone starts!!) Or by a couple of hours hook up at an aire, oh and of course 300w of solar panels.

We know our solar charger can cope with them, we have a sterling b2b from the old van, not currently installed on this van. What we don't know is what our onboard charger can cope with.

The only other problem is that we have 3 healthy varta 90's doing a great job at the moment.

Decisions, decisions??

 

[Kannon Fodda]

Firstly my habitation batteries go under the passenger seat, and there is room for 2 100Ah lead acid batteries. Thus space not an issue, as nothing else can go under there.

Secondly, as I pointed out above, a 100Ah lithium is the same capacity as a 100Ah lead acid, and BOTH will be degraded running down to 20% or lower, so your argument for needing 2 batteries is simply not true.

In my PVC (if it ever arrives) the habitation battery is in the rear storage space under one of the seats. So if I add a second battery (and as the supplied one is a pathetic 75Ah so I'm going to have to do something), I lose storage. I suppose this simply highlights that we all have differing needs.

Conventional wisdom I've read over and over on this forum is not to discharge lead-acid by more than 50%. Gel can go to around 20%. Any battery the more you charge and discharge will have an eventual effect on it's lifespan but if you regularly go to or beyond those limits, you decrease the lifespan. Everything I'm reading suggests lithium would be more tolerant of heavy use being capable of greater numbers of charge and discharge cycles?

What may also be important is the charge and discharge rates. I could be wrong, but leisure lead-acid batteries are suited to longer term gradual loads. The lithium may tolerate heavy loads as well as the gradual? For those who like their off grid high power gadgets is the lithium a better buy?

On a £ per ah charge and recharge and replacement basis the lead-acid may well win out. For some the reducing cost of lithium with it's greater lifecycle prediction and higher discharge potential versus capacity and thus size could make it an attractive option.

 

[thebriars]

With Lithium, you can discharge to 100% rather than a lead-acid battery where you can only really discharge to 50% So you actually get a 100AH rather than a lead-acid battery where you get 50AH out of your 100AH

As I pointed out above, this simply is not true. Of course you can discharge a lead acid battery below 50%. Yes you reduce the life of the battery, but you will also reduce the life of a lithium battery discharging it that low. Generally a lead acid battery lasts me over 5 years anyway.

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[Zepp]

Once Lynne gives me the nod I’m getting 2 lol

 

[Pausim]

As I pointed out above, this simply is not true. Of course you can discharge a lead acid battery below 50%. Yes you reduce the life of the battery, but you will also reduce the life of a lithium battery discharging it that low. Generally a lead acid battery lasts me over 5 years anyway.

Yes you reduce the life of both battery types by discharging them to 100%. However, according to the graphs I Googled the difference is that the lead acid figure of 500 cycles assumes only 50% discharge but the 5,000 cycles for LiFePO4 assumes 100% discharge. You can increase the Li cycles to 12,000 by only discharging to 50%.

 

[thebriars]

This then begs the question, how long do you need a battery to last? By 5000 cycles they mean full charge discharge cycles to a specified level i.e. 50%, 20%, 100%. One has to ask how many such full discharge/charge cycles the average battery goes through in a year. As I said above, in the first 7 months this year, mine has gone through just one. Most of the time it is small discharges and charges, with the solar panel keeping it nicely topped up. Even over winter on a previous van without a solar panel a single top up charge half way through the winter was enough to keep it fully charged. It never needed more than a 10% charge.

Also bear in mind that your LiFePO4 will have a special charging and monitoring circuit in it to ensure each cell is balanced on charging and does not discharge below a specified level. By the same token, most of the appliances in my mh also monitor the voltage and will cut out when it gets too low, i.e. fridge, Truma heating.

From past experience, my lead acid batteries last easily 5 years, usually more. That is £15 to £20 a year. Why would I want a battery that is going to last me 30 years?

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[Jim]

This then begs the question, how long do you need a battery to last?

I use a lot of power, I swapped out 4 x 100AH for 2x100AH Lithium. That saved me around 60kg of payload as well as saving the maintenance which was a pain, it saves me whatever I was losing by having my two banks of two quite a way apart. The lithium gives me about the same useable AH and are so quick (three times as quick at least ) to get back to fully charged. For me this makes the investment well worthwhile.

 

[Rob Hammond]

This then begs the question, how long do you need a battery to last? By 5000 cycles they mean full charge discharge cycles to a specified level i.e. 50%, 20%, 100%. One has to ask how many such full discharge/charge cycles the average battery goes through in a year. As I said above, in the first 7 months this year, mine has gone through just one. Most of the time it is small discharges and charges, with the solar panel keeping it nicely topped up. Even over winter on a previous van without a solar panel a single top up charge half way through the winter was enough to keep it fully charged. It never needed more than a 10% charge.

Also bear in mind that your LiFePO4 will have a special charging and monitoring circuit in it to ensure each cell is balanced on charging and does not discharge below a specified level. By the same token, most of the appliances in my mh also monitor the voltage and will cut out when it gets too low, i.e. fridge, Truma heating.

From past experience, my lead acid batteries last easily 5 years, usually more. That is £15 to £20 a year. Why would I want a battery that is going to last me 30 years?

Then don’t buy one

 

[Richard n Ann]

We use sod all power (bit of TV in the evenings, LED light and water pump), I plug the phones in during the day when there is an abundance of solar. using the starter battery at the minute because the leisure battery is knackered, makes no difference ?
I'll replace the leisure battery when we get back though, a nice old lead acid one ??

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[colyboy]

Well done Jim. Brilliant deal.

Colyboy

 

[Gromett]

thebriars Sorry to keep marking your posts with funny. But it appears you don't understand Li batteries?

Li batteries as others have been said give you roughly 2X the "usable" capacity of Pb battery. The lifespan of an Li battery varies from 2-5 times as long as a Pb battery depending on use cases.
They are a lot lighter so gives you more payload in a 3.5T van.

However, this is their key advantage in my view... The lack of Peukart losses. The sheer efficiency in charging of an Li battery makes offgrid use brilliant. You will get around 1.2-1.4 More charge from your solar panels and they will charge faster. The is NO 3 or 4 stage charging. It is a simply constant current charge moving to constant voltage. The absorption stage is totally missing.

When you put charge rate, capacity and number of FULL cycles together an Li battery whoops the Pb battery hard. The only question is... Is the up front investment worth it for your use case.
If you only go away for odd weekends, with a few weeks main holidays and are always on a campsite with hookup then stick with lead.
If you are going away for 2-6 week runs and mainly off hookup and relying on solar then Li is well worth the look.

If you are fulltime then Li is a no brainer. The more you use your battery the more Li becomes cost effective and useful.

PS: One final advantage of Li batteries. The voltage doesn't sag when current is drawn and the voltage is fairly constant across the charge range. This means you will no longer be able to tell the state of charge by how hard the water comes out of your shower head... Your lights don't dim when a high power device is running. plus much more.

 

[Gromett]

As for the deal. I thought it was expensive at first. But I just did a bit of totting up. As this includes a BMS/Charge manager and is a drop in replacement for 12V Pb batteries. It is a very good deal at £500...

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[DBK]

What I can't get my head around is all the references to needing other bit's of kit like different battery chargers, B2B, alternator capacity or whatever. If you have to change wiring stuff, then the cost is a lot more than the lithium thing alone.

It's because they need to be charged at different voltages to lead acid batteries. Most chargers have different programs for the different lead acid batteries but only the most recent ones will have a lithium cycle.

 

[Gromett]

It's because they need to be charged at different voltages to lead acid batteries. Most chargers have different programs for the different lead acid batteries but only the most recent ones will have a lithium cycle.

That certainly applies to raw Li cells. But the 12V drop in replacements have a built in charge manager and BMS... You shouldn't need to make any considerations if I understand it correctly.

If you are dropping in raw cells then yes you need a charger that won't do absorption stuff and will have the correct charge profile and float. However that is not what this is if I understand correctly.

 

[Stroppy Bird]

That certainly applies to raw Li cells. But the 12V drop in replacements have a built in charge manager and BMS... You shouldn't need to make any considerations if I understand it correctly.

If you are dropping in raw cells then yes you need a charger that won't do absorption stuff and will have the correct charge profile and float. However that is not what this is if I understand correctly.

So what you’re saying is that if I change the switch on my electroblock to wet (currently set to gel) then I would be able to drop one of these in and no further adjustments made?

Due to space constraints it means I would be able to increase capacity which would be beneficial as we’re mainly off season off grid sorts.

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