1 st refill today of LPG gaslow system,,, a serious leak,,, a LUCKY escape,!!! (1 Viewer)

[bigguspeckus]

When we bought the 9000 mile 2011 Autotrail from a rep co in Hitchin we decided to have the calor bottles replaced with the gaslow system.
I cld easily have done this myself but I cldn't have provided a certificate for our insurance co (apparently some ins co see this upgrade as a vehicle modification which renders the insurance invalid unless one notifies them and supplies a relevant certificate).
So, we had the gaslow system fitted by an "expert" and got the cert to prove it,,, informed our insurers, sent them a copy of said cert and everyone was happy...
Until we got to the garage in Norwich this afternoon,,, and started filling the system...

Never having used LPG before we'd read up the fill procedure and watched the online videos,,,
we parked up opposite the LPG pump and I felt totally confident as I latched the nozzle into the filler pipe and pressed the dispense button, closely observed by Mrs P, watching through the open window of the passenger door.

I had my back to our Moho, watching the meter, and all was well (I thought) until the meter read approx 7 litres. I then detected a distinct smell of gas but just assumed it was a normal "fill experience" pretty much like smelling diesel,,, when filling with diesel,?!
At this point I turned around and looked at the fill nozzle, catching a glimpse as I did so of my wifes alarmed expression,,, I could see a gas vapour cloud accumulating under the LPG compartment and liquid droplets landing on the tarmac, turning to white ice as they hit the ground...

A moment caught in time,,,
I SO wish I cld say that I instantly pulled my wife out of the cab, and out of harms way,,, but I did absolutely nothing,,, I stood rooted to the spot, unable to take my eyes off the white cloud hovering in front of me...

There was no explosion, and no blinding flash of flame,,,
despite the fact that the gas vapour was buddying up to a glowing particle filter/exhaust pipe,?!!!
How it never ignited will be an eternal mystery,?!

Later, I looked at the new gaslow installation,,,
THREE connections on the fill side were loose!!!
The anchor harnesses, designed to fit a taller bottle, hadn't been repositioned/lowered, meaning the anchor straps were hanging loosely, allowing the bottles to move about in the compartment.

All in all a shocking and shoddy installation which could have resulted in a major incident/fire at a busy Shell filling station.

There will be some harsh words spoken tomorrow when I get to speak to the dealer.

Please, please, check your pipe connections before YOU fill your LPG bottles,,,
DONT take it for granted, as I did, that all is well.

 

[Hollyberry]

Bl******* hell. A very lucky moment....

 

[Jaws]

So, @bigguspeckus ... all a bit of a 'Venture' then

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[Jo662]

I had my Gaslow fitted last year and was very happy with the
instalation.I still checked all the pipes were tight when I got
home.
It is one of the best upgrades I have on my Motorhome.
Good luck with future fills!

 

[TheBig1]

The risk of an explosion is just one of the dangers you escaped. just as worrying was the very real risk of freeze burns from the liquid propane. on hitting the air, the liquid expands to 200 times the volume and boils off to become a gas. this will suck any heat out of anything it touches. bare skin can be burnt to the bone in a few seconds
did you buy a lottery ticket whilst your luck is in?

 

[wigster]

If it was fitted at a cost professionally , im not one for saying this but they need naming for safetys sake .

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[WSandME]

I fitted my first underslung tank to my old Hymer a few years back. Confidently went to do first fill and immediately saw the leak. Luckily, I was prepared and a quick nip of the connector did the trick - no problems for the next few years.

So, when I fitted the twin tanks on my latest Hymer, I took the MoHo to a local commercial filler and told the guys that it was a first fill, and could they be prepared for a leak. "No problem" they said, and set the delivery to the minimum. Of course, there was a leak, and again a quick tighten did the trick. It is difficult to know what torque to tighten the connectors to - I have never seen any specifications, but I had read somewhere that gas fitting (and fluid of any sort) shouldn't rely on over tightness to seal - that you could damage the sealing surfaces by over-tightening. Well, that's my excuse, and I'm sticking to it!

 

[canopus]

If whoever fitted your system is as reputable as you imply, then he/she should be gas safe registered. Perhaps you could check the installers credentials here :-

https://www.gassaferegister.co.uk/find-an-engineer/

 

[Kingham]

@bigguspeckus I'm pleased that you are both ok, but that's quite a scary experience

Your title grabbed my attention as my new van has a built in tank and filling it is probably the only aspect of motorhoming that I have no experience of, leaving me slightly anxious.
Fortunately my dealer is 'first filling' it before handover, so at least there won't be any leaks by the time I get to refill it.

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[dave newell]

If whoever fitted your system is as reputable as you imply, then he/she should be gas safe registered. Perhaps you could check the installers credentials here :-

https://www.gassaferegister.co.uk/find-an-engineer/

This is NOT the case, Gas Safe registration is not required unless the motorhome will be hired out. The installer should however be able to prove his/her competence, usually by being ACOPS certified.

It is worrying that so called "professional installers" are sending jobs out untested though.

D.

 

[jdk62]

Name and shame...

This could of had horrific consequences!

So glad you are both safe

 

[walburga]

Exactly the reason why I fitted my Gasit system myself.
Glad your all ok.

Allen

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[Gorse Hill]

Definitely put me off having it now, did consider it but given the huge potential danger even fitted by so called experts don't think it's worth it to save £50 per year tops (in my case)

 

[Fragle]

This is NOT the case, Gas Safe registration is not required unless the motorhome will be hired out. The installer should however be able to prove his/her competence, usually by being ACOPS certified.

It is worrying that so called "professional installers" are sending jobs out untested though.

D.

Don't think so. You work on gas you need to be registered there are no exceptions. I'm lpg registered for residential property

 

[funflair]

@bigguspeckus yours is a timely reminder not to put too much faith in the "experts" if you are capable it is always worth a quick check.

We had something similar when we got ours van which was 6 years old, the filler point had been installed in the gas locker door and gaslow stainless hose used inside so that when the door was opened the hose flexed, luckily I went to an out of the way fill place at a Range Rover gas converter and he would show me how to do the filling, we were chatting away and a puddle of gas was forming on the floor well that is why you have drop holes in the locker and the locker is properly sealed.

The pipe had fractured with the opening and closing of the door, again luckily the guy had a spare flexible fill hose which we fitted with straight fitting and a big loop so as not to stress it.

Martin

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[Camdoon]

Definitely put me off having it now, did consider it but given the huge potential danger even fitted by so called experts don't think it's worth it to save £50 per year tops (in my case)

ad
Have had two systems fitted by our own Dave Newell. It is the convenience rather than any great saving in money that is the real benefit.

 

[Jaws]

Don't think so. You work on gas you need to be registered there are no exceptions. I'm lpg registered for residential property

Sorry to say David is absolutely right.
My son is a Gas Safe engineer with the extra ticket for LPG.
Being a motor homer himself he was shocked to find there is no requirement for any certification requirement to work on mobile stuff..

 

[Geo]

Don't think so. You work on gas you need to be registered there are no exceptions. I'm lpg registered for residential property

There are indeed exceptions @Fragle.
As a domestic residence LPG installer you quite rightly say you have to be registerd.
The exception is for the Motor Home /Caravan leisure industry You Dont, Unless as Dave rightly states the vehicle/van is for hiring out
My better half "Pammy" "The Enforcer" is full time in, certification and compliance (Gas)of the domestic and leisure sectors
G

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[Fragle]

@bigguspeckus yours is a timely reminder not to put too much faith in the "experts" if you are capable it is always worth a quick check.

We had something similar when we got ours van which was 6 years old, the filler point had been installed in the gas locker door and gaslow stainless hose used inside so that when the door was opened the hose flexed, luckily I went to an out of the way fill place at a Range Rover gas converter and he would show me how to do the filling, we were chatting away and a puddle of gas was forming on the floor well that is why you have drop holes in the locker and the locker is properly sealed.

The pipe had fractured with the opening and closing of the door, again luckily the guy had a spare flexible fill hose which we fitted with straight fitting and a big loop so as not to stress it.

Martin

Sorry you're wrong. The experts do it right. It's the cowboys that cut corners and risk lives. Simply report the person who installed or get him back and check his card. Allow him to explain

 

[Zigisla]

Definitely put me off having it now, did consider it but given the huge potential danger even fitted by so called experts don't think it's worth it to save £50 per year tops (in my case)

Don't be put off. I first worked it out that it would take 5 years to pay back the cost. But it is the convenience of it and not having to always find a calor dealer that didn't want to rip you off like garages. Mine was fitted by the bitzmeister @eddievanbitz who like @dave newell lvs fill for you to test the system. Filling afterwards is easy. Remember if you fit you own exchange bottles there is still a chance of leakage.

 

[funflair]

Sorry you're wrong. The experts do it right. It's the cowboys that cut corners and risk lives. Simply report the person who installed or get him back and check his card. Allow him to explain

The OP stated they had a system fitted by an "expert" with certificates to prove it, so how does Mr or Mrs J public tell the difference? Are you suggesting we don't need to check the work if we believe they are an expert.

Martin

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[DavidG58]

Glad all ended without injury, as said above seems impossible that these systems can be fitted without wet testing

Have you now tightened up all the loose connections? Apart from retrying with gas how will you know it is now fit to use?

 

[Jaws]

The OP stated they had a system fitted by an "expert" with certificates to prove it, so how does Mr or Mrs J public tell the difference? Are you suggesting we don't need to check the work if we believe they are an expert.

Martin

Gawd knows where that idea came from ! A bit off the wall to say the least !!!!!

I am not commenting on anything other than saying a Gas Safe certificate is not available for LPG work on a vehicle

 

[funflair]

Gawd knows where that idea came from ! A bit off the wall to say the least !!!!!

I am not commenting on anything other than saying a Gas Safe certificate is not available for LPG work on a vehicle

Could have been a certificate in anything nobody mentioned "Gas Safe".

Martin

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[eddie]

Don't be put off. I first worked it out that it would take 5 years to pay back the cost. But it is the convenience of it and not having to always find a calor dealer that didn't want to rip you off like garages. Mine was fitted by the bitzmeister @eddievanbitz who like @dave newell lvs fill for you to test the system. Filling afterwards is easy. Remember if you fit you own exchange bottles there is still a chance of leakage.

We used to be CORGI registered, and years ago I did several Carver gas installation courses and got certificates and badges We gave Neil's CORGI certification up years ago, as it was frankly, too expensive to keep up, just to fix the rattle in the odd Carver heater.

We install Gaslow, and we have bulk LPG on site so every instattion is tested before being handed over to our customers.

We sell loads of Gaslow systems, but if the legislation changed and we had to send our staff on training courses, learning loads of inappropriate stuff, we'd stop selling Gaslow

Connecting up Gaslow is no more complicated that swapping gas bottles really from a connection point of view, just more connections, just once. So would take up a few minutes on a Gas Safe course.

The rest wouldn't be relevant to us, yet the course would be a cash cow for the organisers, the certification certificates would have a cost, as would membership, renewals, ongoing update training ( again about most likely wholly inappropriate things for our industry)

Plus the fact that I have been on, over the years on many "training courses" Srrangely, even though some on the course, would not have been described by their own friends and families as "the sharpest knife in the drawer" Everyone always passes and gets their sticker afterall It is a only course, not a test!

if some one or a business, can't fill the system for you once installed, or demonstrate that the system is safe by pressure testing it, don't use them

Simple

 

[Deleted member 29692]

If whoever fitted your system is as reputable as you imply, then he/she should be gas safe registered. Perhaps you could check the installers credentials here :-

https://www.gassaferegister.co.uk/find-an-engineer/

Sorry but that's not the case. As we've been through many many times the LPG installation on a motorhome does not come under the GSIUR regs unless it is either used for commercial purposes or permanently sited.

I'd be amazed if you could find a Gaslow installer anywhere that's gas safe registered.

 

[MR. FUSION]

All I can say is I tested every joint when I installed mine, and found both the inlet and outlet joints were leaking on the gas-it cylinder itself, I had purchased new. So you need to check everything even the joints that shouldnt ever be leaking

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[Deleted member 29692]

Don't think so. You work on gas you need to be registered there are no exceptions. I'm lpg registered for residential property

Sorry, you're wrong. All leisure vehicles are an exception unless they are permanently sited, hired out or used for other commercial purposes.

http://www.hse.gov.uk/foi/internalops/ocs/400-499/440_34.htm

Think about it.

If what you claim was correct nobody would be able to change their own Calor bottle.

 

[jezport]

When we bought the 9000 mile 2011 Autotrail from a rep co in Hitchin we decided to have the calor bottles replaced with the gaslow system.
I cld easily have done this myself but I cldn't have provided a certificate for our insurance co (apparently some ins co see this upgrade as a vehicle modification which renders the insurance invalid unless one notifies them and supplies a relevant certificate).
So, we had the gaslow system fitted by an "expert" and got the cert to prove it,,, informed our insurers, sent them a copy of said cert and everyone was happy...
Until we got to the garage in Norwich this afternoon,,, and started filling the system...

Never having used LPG before we'd read up the fill procedure and watched the online videos,,,
we parked up opposite the LPG pump and I felt totally confident as I latched the nozzle into the filler pipe and pressed the dispense button, closely observed by Mrs P, watching through the open window of the passenger door.

I had my back to our Moho, watching the meter, and all was well (I thought) until the meter read approx 7 litres. I then detected a distinct smell of gas but just assumed it was a normal "fill experience" pretty much like smelling diesel,,, when filling with diesel,?!
At this point I turned around and looked at the fill nozzle, catching a glimpse as I did so of my wifes alarmed expression,,, I could see a gas vapour cloud accumulating under the LPG compartment and liquid droplets landing on the tarmac, turning to white ice as they hit the ground...

A moment caught in time,,,
I SO wish I cld say that I instantly pulled my wife out of the cab, and out of harms way,,, but I did absolutely nothing,,, I stood rooted to the spot, unable to take my eyes off the white cloud hovering in front of me...

There was no explosion, and no blinding flash of flame,,,
despite the fact that the gas vapour was buddying up to a glowing particle filter/exhaust pipe,?!!!
How it never ignited will be an eternal mystery,?!

Later, I looked at the new gaslow installation,,,
THREE connections on the fill side were loose!!!
The anchor harnesses, designed to fit a taller bottle, hadn't been repositioned/lowered, meaning the anchor straps were hanging loosely, allowing the bottles to move about in the compartment.

All in all a shocking and shoddy installation which could have resulted in a major incident/fire at a busy Shell filling station.

There will be some harsh words spoken tomorrow when I get to speak to the dealer.

Please, please, check your pipe connections before YOU fill your LPG bottles,,,
DONT take it for granted, as I did, that all is well.

When we used a reputable installer Autogas 2000, they pressure tested my system and test filled with a small amount before the filled it up for me. Obviously your installers did none of this. Meaning they are cowboys or incompetent!

 

[Jaws]

When we used a reputable installer Autogas 2000, they pressure tested my system and test filled with a small amount before the filled it up for me. Obviously your installers did none of this. Meaning they are cowboys or incompetent!

Or worse, lazy !
One of the reasons I do all my own work is I simply do not trust other people ...
My list of trusted people to work on my van is very very short.

Dave Newall
Eddie and his crew
Tomas Rudowski ( ( sp ? ) an ex iron curtain man who is just amazing )
Myself

Given Eddie and Dave are not exactly local and I have been an occasional spanner thrower most of my life I am a happy bunny.

Tomas gets a look in for heavy stuff cos I am getting too old and lazy to shift gear boxes and the like around !

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