# £1.20 per litre that’s approx 40p for each mile. Ouch!!

Discussion in 'Motorhome Chat' started by buttons, Mar 17, 2010.

1. ### buttonsFunster

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Do you ever calculate your fuel usage in miles per litre, probably not? I think that we fool ourselves by calculating our usage in MPG yet always quoting the price at the pumps in cost per litre. Perhaps this is why increases affect our friends across the channel more so than us. They don’t know what a gallon is.
It didn’t take the oil companies long to remove every detail of cost per gallon from the forecourts, could you imagine the outcry if fuel was broadcast to be going up by £1 per gal overnight.
I still hold on to this MPG theory yet very rarely think of cost per gallon or the real cost in MPL. Do a few calculations yourself.
40 MPG = 8.8 miles to each litre
30 MPG = 6.6 miles to each litre
25 MPG = 5.5 miles to each litre
20 MPG = 4.4 miles to each litre
15 MPG = 3.2 miles to each litre @ £1.20 per litre that’s approx 40p for each mile. Ouch!!:Mad:
Little wonder the French are up in arms.

2. ### ShiftZZFunsterLife Member

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Casual Users for the government get paid 60.1p per mile..... That must be subsidised somehow"!!

NJC Circular 1/09 -NJC CAR ALLOWANCES 2009/10

3. ### CastawayFunster

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I wish that was true!
I work in local government and only get 47p per mile. That allowance also covers wear and tear, servicing, depreciation, tax and insurance etc, not just fuel!

4. ### ShiftZZFunsterLife Member

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More than the private sector. 40ppm. Also meant to cover wear and tear, servicing, depreciation, tax and insurance etc, not just fuel! So your 47p is more than the private sector.

5. ### GJHFunsterLife Member

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I think this tends to show that those private sector users are being cheated by their employers rather than the other way round. When I worked in local government mileage allowances were based on independent tables produced by the AA, the current ones of which are available Here.

When I first started using my car for work (about 1983) there was no restriction on engine size but about 4 or 5 years later that was changed so that one couldn't claim for anything bigger than a 1200/1300 cc vehicle (can't remember exactly which). At the time we had a 1600 cc Cavalier, not because I wanted to be able to put in high claims but because it was the appropriate size for our family at the time. That didn't matter, the restriction was applied anyway.

There was also a strictly applied criterion which meant that one's own car couldn't be used unless there was a cost saving to the authority over other forms of transport.

Graham

6. ### ShiftZZFunsterLife Member

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Private sector is based on Government data.. HMRC approved Allowances - TravelApproved mileage rates

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/rates/travel.htm

"private sector users are being cheated by their employers rather than the other way round."

I suspect its the LGA being soft and the taxpayers picking up the cost!

As a matter of interest, is the 47 or 60.1 reported on your P11D?

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I am very fastidious about recording the cost of using my 36ft Monaco Cayman - taking into account fuel, servicing, depreciation etc., etc., etc. etc., and every other single item that I can think of that it costs me to run my RV.

A couple of years ago I got the price down to £5.50 per mile - because I was doing some fairly high mileage with the Big Pitch Guide.

For various reasons lately we have been using the car more and more where once we used to use the Rv - the result is that today it is costing me £11.67 to drive every mile in my RV.

Now obviously that price would reduce the more miles that I travelled - but how I wish that I ONLY paid 40 pence per mile! :Sad:

8. ### GJHFunsterLife Member

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That is something slightly different though - the table shows the tax free amounts not the amounts which people should be paid. See the Explanation, which says (amongst other things) "If employees receive greater amounts than are allowed tax-free, they will pay tax on the excess".

I've just had a look at an old P11D form and it is similar to the one Here. It doesn't show the rate paid but does show (at E) the excess paid above the exempt amount. However, the rates payable (which apply nationally) are published Here.

Interestingly, it actually states at the foot of that page "This table must be used in conjunction with the HMRC rates, as any payment above the HMRC Approved Mileage Allowance Payments will attract a tax liability."

Graham

9. ### ShiftZZFunsterLife Member

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Graham

You may find that there is a tax liability and an employers NI liability!

Nearly all private sector employers use the HMRC as the basis for the travelling allowance, some pay less than the40ppm.

The AA data is irrelevant as they are not official data! Neither is tax and insurance element , as you would pay that anyhow.

Life in the private sector is hard.

Gone are the days of Final Salary pensions..
Customers in the private sector have a choice and they can walk, Public sector and certain utilites (water) we dont have a choice and as far as I see, we are getting less and paying more!

Rant over.

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I work in the private sector and have a company car that I pay towards every month I have to pay for all fuel used and can claim back 12p per mile for business use

11. ### GJHFunsterLife Member

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There's certainly a tax liability as I mentioned. The NI liability is explained Here - but I can't tell if there is a liability on the employer in addition to the one on the employee.

I suppose, as with anything else, some people will get away with paying as little as they can. When you think about it if an employee is receiving less than cost then that employee is, in effect, taking a pay cut to subsidise the company profits/shareholder dividends. Yes, the AA data is not official - but it is pretty accurate.

If I recall correctly the view in local government (which is part of overall negotiated pay & conditions) is that they will pay closer to the actual costs so that employees are not made to pay such subsidy out of their own pockets. As I mentioned earlier, in my experience one's own car couldn't be used unless there was a cost saving to the authority over other forms of transport - so a refusal to pay the agreed rates could well result in someone refusing to use their car and using public transport at a greater cost to the taxpayer. An unsatisfactory outcome to everyone.

Yes, now that I run my own company all I can claim is the basic 40p
Big subject and can be emotive - so I only discuss that on another forum not on Fun
I understand totally what you are saying but is there really all that much choice in which public sector companies we use?

Those of us with our own transport and living in an urban environment have a choice when it comes to supermarkets but that choice is severely restricted for people without a car and/or who live in rural areas.

Even where we do have a choice can many people really make savings? Gas, electricity & road fuel prices don't seem to differ much between the various suppliers, nor do bank charges nor those of telephone companies (landline or mobile).

The choice basically comes down to the companies we prefer dealing with because we can take our business elsewhere if we feel we are not being treated properly. At the same time, though, those companies can decide on what basis they will trade with people and can refuse to deal with a customer if they wish - an option which is simply not available to the public sector.

Not an easy problem to solve and I wish I could - because I'd be a rich man

Graham

12. ### ShiftZZFunsterLife Member

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"a refusal to pay the agreed rates could well result in someone refusing to use their car and using public transport at a greater cost to the taxpayer. "

Thats a very rosie view.

In the real world. "So you wont use your own car eh!"
END OF CAREER!oh:

"Yes, now that I run my own company all I can claim is the basic 40p " I rest my case.:BigGrin:

You may find that there will be an employer NI liability, so the generous allowance will cost us even more!

13. ### GJHFunsterLife Member

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I'm a rosy person :BigGrin:

:BigGrin:

I simply don't know Not arguing one way or the other for whether any allowance is justified, just explaining my understanding of the way it was when I was at it

Graham

14. ### dave jmRead Only Funster

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[COLOR=navy][COLOR=navy]The price of oil is as low as it has been for a while, But the oil companies have simply [/COLOR][/COLOR][COLOR=navy][B]
[FONT=Times New Roman]jacked their prices up and the government will not do anything as they rake in [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman]extra VAT for every increase.[/FONT][/B][/COLOR]
[COLOR=navy][COLOR=navy]We are hitting 114.9 a litre in some areas now, soon we will be faced with paying 1.50 a litre. Philip Hollsworth offered this good idea:[/COLOR][/COLOR][COLOR=navy][COLOR=navy][FONT=Arial][B]
[/B][/FONT][/COLOR][/COLOR]
[COLOR=navy][COLOR=navy]This makes MUCH MORE SENSE than the 'don't buy petrol on a certain day campaign that was going around last April or May! The oil companies just laughed at that because they knew we wouldn't continue to [/COLOR][/COLOR][COLOR=navy][B]
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[COLOR=navy][COLOR=navy][FONT=Arial][B]
[/B][/FONT][/COLOR][/COLOR]
[COLOR=navy][COLOR=navy]Now that the oil companies and the OPEC nations have conditioned us to think that the cost of a litre is CHEAP, we need to take aggressive action to teach them that BUYERS control the market place not sellers. With the price of petrol going up more each day, we consumers need to take action. The only way we are going to see the price of petrol come down is if we hit someone in the pocket by not purchasing their Petrol! And we can do that WITHOUT hurting ourselves. Here's the idea:[/COLOR][/COLOR][COLOR=navy][COLOR=navy]For the rest of this year[/COLOR][/COLOR][COLOR=navy][COLOR=navy][FONT=Arial][B] [/B][/FONT][/COLOR][/COLOR][SIZE=4][COLOR=navy][COLOR=navy]DON'T[/COLOR][/COLOR][/SIZE][COLOR=navy][COLOR=navy][FONT=Arial][B] [/B][/FONT][/COLOR][/COLOR][SIZE=4][COLOR=navy][COLOR=navy]PURCHASE[/COLOR][/COLOR][/SIZE][COLOR=navy][COLOR=navy][FONT=Arial][B] [/B][/FONT][/COLOR][/COLOR][SIZE=4][COLOR=navy][COLOR=navy]ANY[/COLOR][/COLOR][/SIZE][COLOR=navy][COLOR=navy][FONT=Arial][B] [/B][/FONT][/COLOR][/COLOR][COLOR=navy][COLOR=navy]petrol[/COLOR][/COLOR][COLOR=navy][COLOR=navy][FONT=Arial][B] [/B][/FONT][/COLOR][/COLOR][SIZE=4][COLOR=navy][COLOR=navy]FROM[/COLOR][/COLOR][/SIZE][COLOR=navy][COLOR=navy][FONT=Arial][B] [/B][/FONT][/COLOR][/COLOR][COLOR=navy][COLOR=navy]the two biggest oil companies (which now are [/COLOR][/COLOR][COLOR=navy][B][FONT=Times New Roman]one),[/FONT][/B][/COLOR][COLOR=navy][COLOR=navy][FONT=Arial][B] [/B][/FONT][/COLOR][/COLOR][SIZE=4][COLOR=navy][COLOR=navy]ESSO and [/COLOR][/COLOR][/SIZE][COLOR=navy][COLOR=navy][B][FONT=Times New Roman]BP[/FONT][/B][/COLOR][/COLOR][COLOR=navy][COLOR=navy][FONT=Arial].[/FONT][/COLOR][/COLOR][COLOR=navy][COLOR=navy][FONT=Arial][B]
[/B][/FONT][/COLOR][/COLOR]
[COLOR=navy][COLOR=navy]If they are not selling any petrol, they will be inclined to reduce their prices. If they reduce their prices, the other companies will have to follow suit. But to have an impact we need to reach literally millions of Esso and BP petrol buyers. It's really simple to do!![/COLOR][/COLOR][COLOR=navy][COLOR=navy][FONT=Arial][B]
[/B][/FONT][/COLOR][/COLOR]
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[/B][/FONT][/COLOR][/COLOR]
[COLOR=navy][COLOR=navy]I am sending this note to a lot of people. If each of you send it to at least ten more ... and those people send [/COLOR][/COLOR][COLOR=navy][B]
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[COLOR=navy][COLOR=navy][FONT=Arial][B]
[/B][/FONT][/COLOR][/COLOR]
[COLOR=navy][COLOR=navy]Again, all You have to do is send this to 10 people. [/COLOR][/COLOR][COLOR=navy][B]
[FONT=Times New Roman]That's all.(and not buy at ESSO/BP) How long would all that take? If each of us sends this email out to ten more people within one day of receipt, MILLIONS of people could conceivably be contacted within the next 8days!!! [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman]Acting together we can make a difference . [/FONT][/B][/COLOR]
[COLOR=navy][COLOR=navy] [/COLOR][/COLOR][COLOR=navy][COLOR=navy][FONT=Arial][B]
[/B][/FONT][/COLOR][/COLOR]
[COLOR=navy][B][FONT=Times New Roman]PLEASE HOLD OUT UNTIL THEY LOWER THEIR PRICES TO THE 90p a LITRE RANGE [/FONT][/B][/COLOR][COLOR=navy][COLOR=navy][FONT=Arial][B]
[/B][/FONT][/COLOR][/COLOR]
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15. ### GJHFunsterLife Member

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Sorry Dave but that's an urban myth. Started in the USA several years ago I think - Google will provide the answer

Graham

16. ### buttonsFunster

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Only one problem here Dave! Company or business car drivers. Air Miles, Hotel vouchers, club points, free gifts, Take the wife away on a free jolly, pay for the wife to join you on one of your own jollies Etc. Etc. Every one of these freebies are bait to capture the drivers that don’t pay for the fuel, hotels, trains or flights they use for business and I’m afraid it is the rest of us that pay the higher premiums to finance all this abuse.
They don’t give many VAT receipts out in Asda fuel stations now I wonder why that is?
I already shop for my petrol on price alone as most non company car drivers do. If you can convince the others to do the same then you could have a chance but I won’t hold my breath.
Example I booked into the Hilton hotel in Watford last week nothing special in fact a bit run down. They offer regular users free weekends for the wife and kids. They also charge £15 per night for internet use in your room. I thought that was abuse because I was paying my own bill but they probably didn't even notice it.oh:

17. ### CastawayFunster

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All well and good but round about where I live, fuel from the recognised companies (Shell, BP, Esso etc) are frequently no more expensive and occasionally cheaper than the fuel from the supermarkets!
I tend to shop on price and, given the same price, I go for the perceived 'quality' of recognised brands than the uncertainty of supply from the supermarkets.

The mileage allowance I receive is at a 'tax paid' rate and appears on my pay slip as such.
As far as I am aware, there is no employer NI liability but I could be mistaken.

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nice try but the cost of a ltre of fuel from the oil companies is cheap its the taxes put on by goverments that make it dear.

Do you not realise that from the £1.16 cost of your litre of fuel, the oil companies will get roughly 40p of that £1.16. using a price per litre quoted local to me.
At the moment our goverment are also looking at raising the price of vat with relation to fuel etc above the 17.5% it is now

Last edited: Mar 18, 2010
19. ### Peter JamesRead Only Funster

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.. and the oil companies seem to be doing more for their 40p than the Government is doing for their 76p.
Even those who can't afford to drive will pay for the cost of fuel on almost everything they buy.
Since they cut the higher rates of income and inheritancetax both Governments have used every which way they can to slip in stealth taxes to make up for it.

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