LPG In Cold Weather (1 Viewer)

scotjimland

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jim , like anyone else I could write an article in wiki that said that lpg was a mixture of ether and chloroform

wouldn't be true though

There are plenty of informative sites to read from, not just Wiki , but frankly I don't see what point you are trying to make.

I was employed in the petro-chemical refining industry for +20 years, I certainly don't claim to be an expert but do have some knowledge without reference to Wiki.

AFAIK there is no ISO standard for LPG, it is either mainly Propane, Butane or a Mix, and it's not possible for a user to know exactly what a forecourt pump is delivering, so any argument about what the constituent gasses are is academic and pointless.

LPG could be a multi-component mixture of n-propane, iso-propane, n-butane, iso-butane and perhaps even some of the various butylenes. The exact composition of the LPG depends upon which refinery produced it and when they produced it.
 

lebesset

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May 31, 2009
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exactly so jim , there is however a euro standard for calorific value as I remember correctly , and whoever supplies the lpg has to meet that

however the cheapest way to do so now appears to be industrial grade propane , which as you must know from your background , is a world standard for an internationally traded product

and that appears to be what we get now ....not a butane mix
so the problems come from the gunge contained therein ....as you correctly point out can contain all sorts of things with varying degrees of miscibility and boiling points !

the point I am trying to make therefore is that it isn't butane in the mix that is causing problems as it isn't there in any significant quantity
 
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Kon tiki

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I wonder about the LPG you buy in Europe where it can be a 50/50 mix of propane & butane. If this could settle out so the propane is at the top & butane at the bottom or even partially seperate (don't know if this at all possible) what happens at the filling station? If the stations tank is full then you would be taking off mainly propane, when it is half full you would then be taking off mostly butane :RollEyes: also what happens when you top up with UK LPG. Or is it the case of once they are mixed they become one solution which can't be separated, maybe somebody knows the definitive answer.

There seems to be quite a few people having problems with LPG this cold spell, maybe the reasons for many of the problems are with water in the regulator freezing & nothing to do with the gas itself. :Eeek:

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Aug 9, 2008
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There are plenty of informative sites to read from, not just Wiki , but frankly I don't see what point you are trying to make.

I was employed in the petro-chemical refining industry for +20 years, I certainly don't claim to be an expert but do have some knowledge without reference to Wiki.

AFAIK there is no ISO standard for LPG, it is either mainly Propane, Butane or a Mix, and it's not possible for a user to know exactly what a forecourt pump is delivering, so any argument about what the constituent gasses are is academic and pointless.

LPG could be a multi-component mixture of n-propane, iso-propane, n-butane, iso-butane and perhaps even some of the various butylenes. The exact composition of the LPG depends upon which refinery produced it and when they produced it.

Hi Jim, you seem to be a person who knows a bit more than the average RV'er. On a slightly different slant but still on LPG,my RV engine runs on LPG or PETROL after filling at my local Flogas in Redruth at the beginning of December I seem to have developed a intermittent mis-fireing which I put down to an ignition fault but after reading this thread I am wondering wether it could be a gas problem,especialy as the Flogas instalation had been resited to another location on the industrial site. Any ideas.

Brian
 

Terry

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Hi Jim, you seem to be a person who knows a bit more than the average RV'er. On a slightly different slant but still on LPG,my RV engine runs on LPG or PETROL after filling at my local Flogas in Redruth at the beginning of December I seem to have developed a intermittent mis-fireing which I put down to an ignition fault but after reading this thread I am wondering wether it could be a gas problem,especialy as the Flogas instalation had been resited to another location on the industrial site. Any ideas.

Brian
Hi Brian does the RV run OK on petrol ? If it is OK on petrol then you have a problem on the gas side
terry
 
Aug 9, 2008
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Hi Brian does the RV run OK on petrol ? If it is OK on petrol then you have a problem on the gas side
terry

Hi Terry,
I've had the LPG set up for 18 months now and from the date of conversion the LPG ran fine but I had a small problem with the Petrol, at the time It was inferred it was a set up problem, so because of the fine running of the LPG and the fact that the Converter was quite a long way from me I never sorted the problem ( silly I know ).

What I was getting at though re the gas, I am wondering wether when they moved the storage tanks wether they could have got some water in. Thus giving similar problems as the other people on this thread.

Brian

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scotjimland

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Hi Jim, you seem to be a person who knows a bit more than the average RV'er. On a slightly different slant but still on LPG,my RV engine runs on LPG or PETROL after filling at my local Flogas in Redruth at the beginning of December I seem to have developed a intermittent mis-fireing which I put down to an ignition fault but after reading this thread I am wondering wether it could be a gas problem,especialy as the Flogas instalation had been resited to another location on the industrial site. Any ideas.

Brian

Hi Brian..

sorry, the only knowledge I have of LPG vehicles is antidotal and the only LPG vehicle I've worked on was a fork lift truck.. pig of a thing, give me diesel any day:thumb: :roflmto:

jim
 
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Terry

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Hi Brian if the truck is not running perfect on petrol then this will transfer to the gas side of things :whatthe: It needs sorting out petrol wise first, then look at the gas side :thumb:If you pull out the main gas fuse that eliminates the gas bit :thumb: and then it is just like a normal petrol engine that needs tuning /running right :thumb:You can then put the fuse back in and it should run perfect on gas :thumb:
A lot of mechanics do not want to work on gas powered trucks / vans because they do not know about them, but once the fuse is removed it becomes a straight forward petrol engine :thumb:
terry
 

forfourgeek

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May 21, 2009
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You might have read that I too have had problems with freezing gas...

I wrote to Calor and had an answer that I thought might be worth sharing with everyone.
Ive removed any lagging on my system that I previously fitted & done what John Douglas says in his reply... Result in relation to water in regulator.. Yep, there was loads...

I hope this help
s..:thumb:

Quote from John Douglas "Calor Gas UK"

Sorry to hear about your gas related problems but the following may help.

I am assuming that you have a single regulator connected to one bottle and not an automatic change-over device

It sounds as if the regulator is freezing rather than the gas - this is normally caused by water being introduced above the diaphragm, freezing over-night or when the temperature dips, thus preventing the valve moving when gas is called for, so stopping the flow of gas.

If you look at the regulator you will see a small breather hole on it's top side - this is where the water gets in and it needs to be angled downwards. It is also a good idea to cover the regulator with something waterproof (piece of plastic sheeting for example) in order to keep water away.


If the regulator has become waterlogged you will need to drain it out before repositioning - just by letting it drip out of the hole please do not disassemble.

Other than this - is the cylinder forming ice or frost on it's surface. If so you may be exceeding it's maximum off-take and could need a second cylinder fitted in tandem (very low temperatures reduce the off-take so what will work in the summer may not in the winter) but this will be dependant on the appliances you are using.

Hope this helps but please let me know.

Wishing you a happy and warm new year.

Regards - John Douglas technical help desk

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Fulltiming Felines

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What's the current situation with LPG in UK? Is it still 95% propane? Does it vary throughout the year?
 
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Hi Jim the SG would play apart if, the two liquids didn't mix, but from what I have read they do, bit like putting antifreeze (ethylene glycol) in your engine, it mixes nicely with water.

If you look at that link at a 50/50 ratio at 32F you only have 7.6psi, at -10F its only 3.5psi, which would give problems I would have thought as our regulators are set at around 28mbars or 4psi.

A case where the science doesn't match our experience, but maybe we expect to much, and the science is correct.

Olley
Isn't 28mB = 0.4psi?

Edit: now read @pappajohn comment :oops:.
 

Fulltiming Felines

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That seems to contradict what some posters have said about 95% propane, 5% butane and other stuff.

I just have no idea which source to trust.

Yesterday it was about 0°C and my gas hob was flowing like it was on its lowest setting and the Truma heater felt like 3 even when I had it cranked to 10.

Is that normal? How do people get on with this when they go skiing and it's -5 or -10°?
 
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2657

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That seems to contradict what some posters have said about 95% propane, 5% butane and other stuff.

I just have no idea which source to trust.

Yesterday it was about 0°C and my gas hob was flowing like it was on its lowest setting and the Truma heater felt like 3 even when I had it cranked to 10.

Is that normal? How do people get on with this when they go skiing and it's -5 or -10°?

I can only pass on what seems to be a fairly reliable source, I use bottled propane so I know what I am getting.

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R

Robert Clark

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We’ve found that autogas purchased in Southern Europe does not perform well in Northern Europe when it’s cold
 

Sundowners

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That seems to contradict what some posters have said about 95% propane, 5% butane and other stuff.

I just have no idea which source to trust.

Yesterday it was about 0°C and my gas hob was flowing like it was on its lowest setting and the Truma heater felt like 3 even when I had it cranked to 10.
Is that normal? How do people get on with this when they go skiing and it's -5 or -10°?


You may have water on the outside of the regulator diaphragm (if it is outside) or quite possibly oil build up inside the regulator-------- I had problems last year and replaced the regulator---- a lot of black oily gunge came from the old regulator.
 

Fulltiming Felines

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You may have water on the outside of the regulator diaphragm (if it is outside) or quite possibly oil build up inside the regulator-------- I had problems last year and replaced the regulator---- a lot of black oily gunge came from the old regulator.
The regulator is in a locker.

It's now 8°C and it's flowing like normal again. Is it still possibly a regulator problem?

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Mar 15, 2021
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Sounds like a good plan Nigel ..

another option is to fit a BBQ take off point, that can be used to connect the propane bottle ..

jim
Would this work, can you fill up an underslug lpg tank from a canister through a bbq point?
 

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