Start/stop battery as a leisure battery? (2 Viewers)

[Pausim]

Interesting. To pour fuel on the fire this negative veiw of AGM's is backed up by A&N (as mentioned by some on here), often people of controversy are controversial, but that doesn't make them wrong about everything

But it doesn’t make them right about everything either. I qoute from their web pages “We think Gel batteries are too compromised for modern motorhome use”. There are many Funsters who have had great success with gels. Having dished AGM, Gel and LiFePO4 they are left with the lead acid battery invented in 1859. It has stood the test of time but I can’t believe there have been no better technologies invented since then.

 

[Lenny HB]

Both AandN & Charles Sterling are very good technically but both have a bit of a downer on Gel's. More recently they have not been downing them as much as they use to.

Often find people who have not used Gel's tend to diss them due to their higher cost and they take longer to charge. Both are offset by their long life & the lower discharge levels you can take them to.

 

[Bridget]

As an update, I've cancelled my booking and, after chatting with Nick, I'm off to Van Bitz. Now where have I hidden the gin

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[Don Quixote]

I have had batteries from these gouys going into year 6...... but you need to care for the batteries.....



At that price you cannot go wrong.

 

[hymerman]

Leisure batteries have thicker plates to cope with the different demands to starter batteries.

 

[GPW]

Having dished AGM, Gel and LiFePO4 they are left with the lead acid battery invented in 1859.

Agreed that Gels seem to work very well.
LiFePO4 is a tricky one as it's not just one type of battery, the internal electronics of each brand vary so each lithium battery must be evaluated on its own merit rather than as a generalised class. The price is what tends to scare me off

I'm hoping that the money going into batteries from the electric car sector creates a new aluminium based of fluorine based cell we can use. Fluorine would be ideal because currently that waste product is used to poison toothpaste, better it goes into batteries!
I've heard energy densities of 8x quoted, who knows but a 100Ah battery the size of a motorbike battery would be great!!

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[TinaLes]

Initially the lower Amp/Hour rate of the Supplied Gel Battery was disconcerting as I thought I would ideally want 100 Amp/Hour plus.
It was after reading more into Gel Leisure batteries, that I discovered they could be discharged to a much higher degree than wet lead acids, i.e Gel can be discharged to 20% Max, we lead acids 50% Max before affecting the life expectancy, I am saying this loosely though as I hope I never will run my Gels down to anywhere near 20%, fingers crossed.
I could have purchased two lead acid batteries for the price of one of The Varta 80 Amp/Hour that the van came with.
However, taking into account the ability to discharge to lower values, along with having spoken to existing German Van owners with Gels fitted, (some of which lasted 7/8 years) it was an easier decision.
I am somewhat confused as to why "Mr Stirling" in the video attached,dissed Gels as they were only used to "meet German safety standards", he didn't mention anything about the higher discharge rate thats achievable over and above wet lead acids, plus the fact that being Gels they can be mounted on their sides if thats Desirable.
So I will stick with Gels, bought and delivered from Tanya Batteries, excellent service provided, arrived next day.
Les

 

[PeteH]

One can only look at own experience, mine has been with Wet Lead acid over a period exceeding 50Years+, by now, and possibly in the hundreds when one takes in the No of vehicles and recreational units owned. The Current Rapido came to me with two GEL batteries and as they are fitted under the Bed (not my idea), and where "alleged" by the dealer as being New. I suppose they are the better option. So now I have the opportunity to see if the hype over Gel Batteries is a good as being quoted, without actually having had to make the decision.

Providing one is prepared and has access to L-A`s to carry out the relatively simple maintenance, they are the "working man`s" option, Cheap(er) and with care anything up to 5yrs of "life", and does not need the (same) level of sophistication in the charging unit?. If the charging unit existing in a particular unit has the capability, then the options are broader, naturally.

Case in question, was my second R-V. I "created" space under the front cover (pusher) and fitted 4 extra 110AH L-a`s. At the same time I put a second battery in the Engine space, but linked to the "house" not the Chassis system. The reason being to cope with voltage drop being experienced at the rear of the coach, connected by a length of Welding cable "rescued" from being scrapped and re-sleeved. This pack I serviced from 400W of solar, via an online purchased 30Amp Unit. Having dumped the 110V US charging unit I put in a 40W "smart" charger from the US, (came in in the "trunk" of a mates import). I had been having issues with the alternator any way, so that got replaced by a 180AH unit. (From 110Ah) Courtesy of Midland American. At the end of a 7 Year tenure, with a lot of off grid use, Only one of the "new" batteries had failed, which at the then low price of £55 Each I though that had been decent "bang for the buck". With a payload in excess of 2 tonne, the extra weigh was not really an issue. but of course does not apply to the average "Euro Box".

 

[bigtwin]

under £200 for probably 5 years use if maintained well, against £300 or more for 6 or 7 years with GEL

With the correct charger gels will last many years some members on here with 10 year old gels still going.

However, taking into account the ability to discharge to lower values, along with having spoken to existing German Van owners with Gels fitted, (some of which lasted 7/8 years) it was an easier decision

One of my gels lasted 12 years and the second is currently at 9 years so easily exceeding the anecdotal lifetimes referred to above. For me, with these lifetimes, the financial case for gels is very strong.

The Current Rapido came to me with two GEL batteries and as they are fitted under the Bed (not my idea), and where "alleged" by the dealer as being New. I suppose they are the better option. So now I have the opportunity to see if the hype over Gel Batteries is a good as being quoted, without actually having had to make the decision.

See above, you might have a long wait!

I qoute from their web pages “We think Gel batteries are too compromised for modern motorhome use”. There are many Funsters who have had great success with gels.

Compromise! What a horrible word! Just imagine how much longer a (gel battery) life we could have if they weren’t so compromised; 15 - 20 years anyone?

Often find people who have not used Gel's tend to diss them due to their higher cost and they take longer to charge. Both are offset by their long life & the lower discharge levels you can take them to.

Seems so!

Sonnenschine, part of Exide they make the Exide gels.

Yep, mine are Sonnenschine too.

Ian

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[Lenny HB]

Leisure batteries have thicker plates to cope with the different demands to starter batteries.

Only if they are a genuine lesiure battery, of which there are very few. 95% of so called lesuire batteries are starter batteries with a different lable stuck on.

 

[PeteH]

See above, you might have a long wait!

Hopefully? Although in view of the "mistakes" made by the dealer in what they laughingly called a PDI. I am not holding my breath on the "truth" of any statements made!. hence the use of "Allegedly" new.

 

[Don Quixote]

Truth About Leisure Batteries
Choosing a leisure battery weather it be for a canal boat or motorhome can be a very complicated experience. So lets face it there is a very wide choice of battery products out there that will all do the job.

Of course it is like anything else in life. There are “horses for courses”, what one guy wants will be very different to what another guy may want. Lets face it, not that long ago there was not much Choice at all.

Most leisure batteries were just regular car batteries. Lead acid car batteries are still in fact being used. Small caravan users who just pop to the coast twice a year do not require an all “whistling and singing” semi traction battery. Although like anything in life you pay fro what you get. Generally though a large lead acid car battery will probably last a couple of years, before renewing.

The leisure battery market is so wide and varied that it is difficult to know where to start.
My own experience tells me that in the past five or six years then our best seller has been the XV31MF battery. This battery has twin post for easy connection to other batteries and or electrical goods. The XV range starts at the smaller 85 AH to the 135 Ah batteries. These products were heavily marketed at many caravan and leisure shows.

In my opinion they became the mainstay of the leisure battery industry and are marketed under the name of “Numax” and “Lucas”. These batteries were a sort of “Hybrid” between a starter battery and a storage battery. They were and still are very popular batteries and work very well for many of our customers. I cant help forget that caravanning was a great way for the great majority to travel about with the family on holiday at a budget price.

This why it became so popular and turned it into the billion pounds business of today. As the vehicles became larger an d equipped with more electrical items, then the batteries became more sophisticated. The travel revolution was happening in the USA as well as the UK and Europe. People were enjoying more freedom and caravan parks were opening up all over the world. Of course motorhomes or RV’s as they are known in the States became more popular. Some are as big as a single decker bus.

As a result other types of battery technology came along.
Deep Cycle and Semi Traction Batteries. Supply cold cranking amps in the way a starter battery will came along. Consequently, these are specifically intended to have high storage capacity that is utilised more slowly. A perfect example of this is the very common use of Trojan and U.S batteries in Golf buggies.

The batteries spend the night being charged and the day transporting a golfer around a golf course. Of course, without the ‘benefit’ or noise of an internal combustion engine. So, this kind of deep discharge would kill a conventional starter type battery in no time at all. It’s good to remember that while a deep cycle battery will start an engine and survive. Subsequently, a car starter battery used for domestics will meet a very premature death. Indeed this is what happens when people do use a car battery for this purpose.

For this reason “Starter Batteries” are still sold as leisure batteries. Here in the UK there is a certain type of person who only wants the cheapest battery. Consequently, if it is a car battery with a leisure sticker on the front, then that will do . As long as the price is right. One guy explained that he did not want to buy an expensive battery because they did not last very long. Unfortunately some people have this mind set and it is difficult to change it?

Truth About Leisure Batteries-For some reason then boat people do seam to make the correct choices when it comes to buying leisure batteries.
Although I own the company, we are only in our early stages of development. This often means that I have to do some weekend delivering. Mostly to mariners here in the UK. The very minimum that the boat people buy is the .

However they will order Trojan batteries or U.S batteries. This is great because we know that they are using the correct batteries for the job. Although they are paying more on the outset, they also know that they will get many hours and years of excellent service from these Kings of batteries. In fact many canal boats are fitted with two banks of batteries. Of course one is used as a starter bank and the other is used as the leisure bank to run all the boats internal electrics.

Truth About Leisure Batteries-The two banks are usually controlled by a control panel.
This enables the two to be kept separate. So when the boat is moored up for a stopover, then the starter batteries are kept apart from the leisure bank. Of course this keeps the banks apart. So that the starter batteries do not discharge when the leisure batteries will be deeply discharged during usage.

The starter batteries will still be in good shape to start the engines and the leisure bank will then recharge when the boat departs to its next destination.

Just to reiterate ? there are hundreds of brands shapes and sizes of leisure batteries. You “make your choice and pays your money” if you are a small time weekender sort of leisure user, then go for the best deal in the cheaper battery range. They are all pretty much the same. Probably the bigger the better, go far an 110 Ah . On the other hand, if you are a serious leisure battery user look at the Trojan and U.S. battery range. These are the real tough guys in the battery world.

Truth About Leisure Batteries-Like most things in life, you pay for what you get.
Another good recommendation of mine is the Banner leisure battery range. Banner also do a smaller size battery that is a genuine leisure battery and is well worth buying if you are a casual weekend type of caravan or motorhome guy. Spending that little bit more will give you that little bit more battery security and a longer battery life.

AGM batteries of any make are deep cycle and are also a great choice after the semi-traction batteries. Deep cycle batteries are sealed and maintenance free. More importantly, the AGM battery is a deep cycle battery. Although I try to keep these leisure battery articles as simple as possible , it is a minefield out there. If you are happy with the batteries that you have got then stick to them. Dont complicate things unless you have good advice from another user whos word you can trust.

Written by Eric Roberts

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[Pausim]

Truth About Leisure Batteries

I think this article might have been written a while ago, no mention of Gel or LiFePO4 but perhaps it does take us back to the original question.

 

[GPW]

I think this article might have been written a while ago, no mention of Gel or LiFePO4 but perhaps it does take us back to the original question.

Also it says AGM batteries are great which may not actually be true.

 

[Don Quixote]

Also it says AGM batteries are great which may not actually be true.

And it clearly states...............
"Of course it is like anything else in life. There are “horses for courses”, what one guy wants will be very different to what another guy may want. Lets face it, not that long ago there was not much Choice at all"

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[skylinersi]

Plus the grammar is stunning.....

 

[funflair]

Love using this link from Mr Sterling taking through the range of regular conventional batteries. It also can be down to personal experience of course ;


As for Li, best you take a look at previous threads, or I may be forced to get back on the Soap Box . Ill just leave this link here though, but stay with the video if you can (Can't help myself );

OK I have watched both videos in the first one he dismisses GEL because they are safe what is all that about? was he worried that they were going to come out too well in the second test so he didn't want them there?

The second test on the "nasty" Sterling cycle, is it really realistic to run a cycle test down to 10.5v surely a half decent inverter will cut out well before 10.5v @25A, doesn't the Lithium have a protection circuit to stop it being discharged too low? and then he stopped the test at 200 cycles and made the assumption that the lithium would go on for 1000 or even 2000 cycles.

Or did you just link it for comedy value and I am not supposed to take it quite so seriously

Martin

 

[GPW]

Comedy value is vital and often underrated

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[jollyrodger]

Hi @Bridget if you haven't already got your batteries ,just across the water
Plymouth battery center ,Sugar mill Ind est .
They fit foc and will price match anything similar on eBay.
All batteries supplied by them over the years. And last year decided to have them professional checked (small fee) all came back fine after 4 years of use
Hope you solar reg still working ok
Edit
I have 2x Varta 95 pro to run lights pump etc and 2 x 110 Excide at the rear for inverter and tv etc all kept healthy by solar

 

[Lenny HB]

All batteries supplied by them over the years. And last year decided to have them professional checked (small fee) all came back fine after 4 years of use

That won't tell you anything all they do is a CCA test, meaningless for lesiure use, a battery can pass that test with flying colours and be totally f**ked for lesiure use.

Only way to test if it's OK for leisure use is a slow controlled discharge.

 

[jollyrodger]

That won't tell you anything all they do is a CCA test, meaningless for lesiure use, a battery can pass that test with flying colours and be totally f**ked for lesiure use.

Only way to test if it's OK for leisure use is a slow controlled discharge.

That's exactly what was done ,
cheers

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[Lenny HB]

That's exactly what was done ,
cheers

Very unusual they don't normally do that.

 

[jollyrodger]

Very unusual they don't normally do that.

I had asked them to ,as I was having a problem with a new Stirling 1800w Pure sine wave inverter that did begger all after fitting it,correctly.
thinking the batteries weren't up to it they all came out and I took them down had them the best part of a week.
all came back with individual good reports.
the inverter went back to supplier who tested it and found the same fault ,dead. and refunded.

 

[Hilewaychile]

I go here first, to check

https://www.thencc.org.uk/Our_Schemes/ncc_verified_leisure_battery_scheme.aspx

I have turned my 2 x Numax 100Ahr batteries into mooring weights for a couple of Mirror dinghies. All my own fault ... Stupid boy

So, after checking the listings in the battery scheme site, I have decided to go with a couple of Class B Exides. 12V 95AH EXIDE ER450 Ultra Deep Cycle Leisure Marine Battery. £90 ea inc del. NCC Registered & Verified Battery - Class B

The Ebay listing, by starterbatteries2011, is a bit awry. They state the Exide is the equivalent of a couple of Numax models, one of which was my late pair. But the Numaxes are Class C, purely starter batteries: starterbatters2011 is underselling these Exides with that comparison.

Maybe that's why they are charging £90 but on the continent they are 220€+ - unless you get them from Finland or latvia - then they're only 135€

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[MisterB]

Bridget -


https://www.homesteadcaravans.co.uk...torhome/electrical/12v-batteries-maintenance/


they are only ten mins from my house and I am sure they can sort you out when you 'stay over'

Dave

 

[Bridget]

Hi Mike @jollyrodger , yes solar still going good thanks. Can't believe that's 4 years ago now - what the devil have I been doing? How are the knees holding up?

@MisterB , an accessories shop within 10 minutes? Do they take credit cards Dave?

 

[Wildbill]

I have a grat big truck battery 180 ah and its never missed a beet in three years
bill

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[MisterB]

Hi Mike @jollyrodger , yes solar still going good thanks. Can't believe that's 4 years ago now - what the devil have I been doing? How are the knees holding up?

@MisterB , an accessories shop within 10 minutes? Do they take credit cards Dave?

yes, so long as you can remember your pin number ..... be careful you don't get carried away by the stuff they sell though .... you probably wont think you need 'one' until you see it

 

[Lenny HB]

NCC Registered & Verified Battery - Class B

Your obviously missed the threads on here about that scam.

 

[jollyrodger]

Hi Mike @jollyrodger , yes solar still going good thanks. Can't believe that's 4 years ago now - what the devil have I been doing?

Yep don't time fly when your having fun

How are the knees holding up?

Much better than before ,cheers

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