Mains and Solar panels not charging (1 Viewer)

[Saltings]

Hi,have just joined the forum and am hoping someone has the answer to this prob.

Model is a Chasson C626 Flash '14 Reg.with 110 A Habitation battery. During winter of '15-'16 solar panel kept this fully charged. This last winter there was no charge at all. Ducato motor batt. reads 11.8v, hab. battery 1.88v, solar cells 21 vs.

Took it to our local dealer and they said oold battery had a dead cell (as it is a sealed battery I fail to know how they new). Changed this for new battery (£200) but that is now also reading 1.8v (and I am £200 lighter). Kept old battery and charged it with my Cetek and it has been reading a constant 13.3vs for the last week.So it seems totally healthy.

Firstly has anyone any idea what is causing the problem(s) and secondly how do you remove the front seat in the Chasson to be able to charge the battery! have thought of taking the fuse out from the wire that leads to the +ive terminal and then adding the -ive contact to metal that leads to the -ive terminal.

But the thought of leaving this on when the Cetek becomes warm during the early stages of charging inside such an expensive vehicle makes me shudder!
Help would be appreciated - am sure it is something simple and hundreds have had the same problem no doubt.

Thanks for reading this folks.

 

[Vanman]

You seem to have 3 or more posts on this subject, so I'll assume you are desperate. I'm no electrician but I know that to understand the health of a battery you need to disconnect it from the charger for a few hours. Any battery will look good while the charger is running, how quickly it discharges without load is a better sign. Subsequent to that you should try adding a known load to the battery to see if it loses it's charge at the appropriate speed.

I use an Optimate unit on my batteries as it measures all these things automatically and tells you if you battery is recoverable ... or not.

 

[Saltings]

Cheers, the "new" 110A battery is well and truly locked beneath the drivers seat which has to be taken out to gain access to it. The "old" (3 yrs. old) battery I have fully charged to 13.7vs. and has been in our shed for a week where the power reading has become a steady 13.3vs - this is not connected to anything so I would expect it to gradually discharge over the coming months.

The second problem I have is how do you get the drivers seat out. There are 4 bolts and 2 grub screws.

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[Vanman]

Do you mean 12.7?

There is a good article about batteries here, I've linked to probably the most relevant page, but worth reading the whole article.

Link Removed

 

[andy63]

Hi,have just joined the forum and am hoping someone has the answer to this prob.

Model is a Chasson C626 Flash '14 Reg.with 110 A Habitation battery. During winter of '15-'16 solar panel kept this fully charged. This last winter there was no charge at all. Ducato motor batt. reads 11.8v, hab. battery 1.88v, solar cells 21 vs.

Took it to our local dealer and they said oold battery had a dead cell (as it is a sealed battery I fail to know how they new). Changed this for new battery (£200) but that is now also reading 1.8v (and I am £200 lighter). Kept old battery and charged it with my Cetek and it has been reading a constant 13.3vs for the last week.So it seems totally healthy.

Firstly has anyone any idea what is causing the problem(s) and secondly how do you remove the front seat in the Chasson to be able to charge the battery! have thought of taking the fuse out from the wire that leads to the +ive terminal and then adding the -ive contact to metal that leads to the -ive terminal.

But the thought of leaving this on when the Cetek becomes warm during the early stages of charging inside such an expensive vehicle makes me shudder!
Help would be appreciated - am sure it is something simple and hundreds have had the same problem no doubt.

Thanks for reading this folks.

There are a couple points you need to clarify...
You say the solar kept your hab battery charged previously ???but is not doing so now... can you expand on that..
Your reading of 1.8v on battery is very low but your panel voltage of 21v is right.. is your charge controller still function or has a fuse gone that may be in the supply from controler to battery...??
It certainly sounds like you have no solar connected at the minute..
Do you not have a built in mains charger when on ehu that will charge your battery without removing the seat..??that would be the norm. .
The seat can be removed ..as you say usually involves the removal of 4 bolts but the seat is extremely heavy and difficult to handle... best with some help..
It does sound like the battery you removed has taken a charge and if it holds its voltage when taken off the charger you could test it with a known load like a headlamp bulb for a given period of time and see how it performs. ..
Andy

 

[Saltings]

No I do mean 13.7 which I realise is higher than normal. It has however dropped to a steady 13.3 vs. Thanks for the link.

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[DBK]

I'm not sure why you want to get at the leisure battery as it sounds like you have a charging problem, not a battery problem.
What happens if you start the engine or put it on EHU? Hopefully either will start charging the leisure battery. If this is the case there is no problem with the connections to the battery.
With a multimeter can you check the system from the solar panel through the controller to the leisure battery charging terminals?

 

[Saltings]

Hi John, no need to get to the battery if I could charge it. Neither the mains supply or Solar cells will do this. Unfortunately have yet to find a way of measuring power into the battery. Have yet to try using the alternator in motor. By the way, how long would this take? As the solar cells worked before, why not this time. Reading from them is 21.1 vs.
Thanks for reading my plea.

 

[Saltings]

Hi Andy, to clarify the m/home battery kept a full charge when we didn't use it between Oct. 2015- June 2016 and this was without an ehu but purely relying on the solar cells.
it does seem like the Solar controller is malfunctioning in some way. The six contacts on the front that are for the +ive and -ive of the panel, batt. 1 and batt. 2 all function. They show 21 vs. 11.8 vs and 1.8 vs. respectively. Next to this we have the main distribution box with fuses for all the different things inside etc. and lastly the Battery Charger. I have checked each fuse all of which are fine. I have not taken the Solar Controller to pieces - no idea what is inside that! We have a built in mains charger but it doesn't charge. There is power coming through it though.

One last point is that the "new" battery has been in place for about 4 weeks but in that time has dropped to 1.8 vs. which seems rather fast seeing as it has not been in use - no fridge, lights etc on.

Thanks for the help.

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[pappajohn]

As the solar cells worked before, why not this time. Reading from them is 21.1 vs.

21v at the panel input terminals at the controller, or the controller output terminals to the battery.
If its at the output teminals you have an open circuit to the battery....probably a blown fuse near the battery.

 

[Saltings]

Now you have me! It's the small terminals on the front so I guess it is the input terminals. The ones next to it also correspond to the Ducato's battery and the Hab. battery when these are measured at their respective positions e.g. under the bonnet/or in the cig. lighter or in the case of the Hab. battery on the wires leading from it.

 

[pappajohn]

OK, the input may be marked with a pic of a panel and the output with a battery.
If nothing is connected to the output wiring it will read the same as the input terminal voltage.. .around 21v.
It needs a battery, or at least a reasonable load, in circuit to provide a resistance.
Blown fuse, effectively no battery

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[Saltings]

Hi, where are the fuses to the Solar control panel plse? Poss behind it if I unscrew it?
Cheers

 

[andy63]

The six contacts on the front that are for the +ive and -ive of the panel, batt. 1 and batt. 2 all function.

It sounds like you have a dual battery controler...
Normall the 3rd pair of contacts are load terminals on most controllers ,but you are saying that the 2nd and 3rd pair of contactsare marked hab and vehicle battery.????
Have you checked your mains charger for an on off switch...even if it's a blown fuse in your solar controller output you should still have mains charging...
If you can measure battery voltage at the outlets you describe then the fuse hasn't gone.. but you could confirm that with a meter.. ie if measuring the voltage at the battery and again at the controler terminals results in the same voltage then the controler is obviously connected to the batteries..
Andy

 

[andy63]

Hi, where are the fuses to the Solar control panel plse? Poss behind it if I unscrew it?
Cheers

There is normally an inline fuse in the output of the controller to the battery in the positive feed...
Sometimes a fuse in the panel supply to the controler as well.. but that one if it's fitted isn't your problem..
You don't need to dismantle the controller ... the fuse's should be in line and often close to the battery...
Andy

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[DBK]

I read the 1.88v you mentioned in your first post as a typo, thinking you meant to say 11.8v. I now see it really is 1.8v in which case something sounds seriously amiss. You should be able to check the vehicle battery is 11.8v by measuring it under the bonnet. There should be some connections on the right for jump starting it. This will confirm Bat 1 is the vehicle battery. If this is correct then the 1.8v must be your leisure battery and its a good job the old one is still good as it is probably going to be needed.
When there is a bit of sun shining you could try disconnecting one of the wires from the terminals where you are seeing the 1.8v and see what you measure. It should be something like 12v or more.
If you do see 12 or more volts then I think the controller is working correctly and you have a dead leisure battery.
You could also try connecting these terminals temporarily to your old leisure battery and see what voltages you get.
When reconnecting the batteries I suggest you disconnect one of the cables going to the solar panel first, connect the battery, then reconnect the solar panel. This may not be necessary if the vehicle battery remains connected but it will do no harm. Some solar chargers can switch between 12v and 24v operation and they choose which by measuring the battery voltage they are connected to before the panel is connected.
Why the leisure battery may have died so quickly is another matter.
I can't help at getting at it, but be careful as there could be airbag sensors under the seat.

 

[andy63]

Can you post a picture of your solar controller?
Andy.

 

[Saltings]

Hi Andy
I am certain it is a dual battery controller as it is marked (from L to R) solar panel (with green light on reading 21V) battery 1 (again with green light on) and then battery 2 (with flashing red light on) all three of which have the two contacts beneath them from which I can take voltage readings. The wires from the solar panel come down behind that into the Solar Controller. The wires go from that into a GYM1-83 C10 switch box. All of the switches are up and say "on".

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[Ivory55]

Welcome to the black art of 12v motor home electric, it makes house electric look like child's play.

 

[andy63]

Hi Andy
I am certain it is a dual battery controller as it is marked (from L to R) solar panel (with green light on reading 21V) battery 1 (again with green light on) and then battery 2 (with flashing red light on) all three of which have the two contacts beneath them from which I can take voltage readings. The wires from the solar panel come down behind that into the Solar Controller. The wires go from that into a GYM1-83 C10 switch box. All of the switches are up and say "on".

Well I know nothing about how you set up a dual battery controller. .. ie whether or how the charge to each battery is set or whether it's fixed by the manufacturer. .
It does sound like something is not right with your controller. .
But that doesn't explain your lack of mains charging as well..
Two issues and I can't see a connection..
Andy.

 

[Saltings]

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[pappajohn]

On the controller from the left....across terminals 3 & 4 and 5 & 6 should have around 13v (for simplicity) checked with a multi/volt meter.
Terminals 1 & 2 may be 21v or more in good sunshine.

Still convinced its the fuse in the hab battery positive feed near the battery and it could also have the mains charger wire connected to it which would explain why theres no power at all getting to the battery.

Also, the wires in term 1 & 2 look far too thin to me...should be at least 4mmsq.

 

[Saltings]

Hi John
Thanks for answering. When light tomorrow I will see if I can see a fuse near the +ive terminal of the battery. The trouble with that is access. It is well and truly hidden and lifting the seat out is no small job as Andy mentioned.

 

[Saltings]

Hi John
Thanks for answering. When light tomorrow I will see if I can see a fuse near the +ive terminal of the battery. The trouble with that is access. It is well and truly hidden and lifting the seat out is no small job as Andy mentioned.

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[Saltings]

Hi
I think I may at last have discovered the main fuses or relays.The one by the Solar Controller (see pic.) I have inspected this and the 5 A fuse is removable whereas the 50 A is not. I have found an identical relay* that may well house fuses as it is marked in a similar way. I have attached pictures of both so perhaps you would like to comment on these.
Also attached pics of electrics layout and one of wires leading from front of battery under drivers seat to a yellow connector that comes from the +ive terminal to a 20 A fuse. No fuse on the -ive wire. On the back of the drivers seat there is a picture of another connector that comes from the battery charger via the relay* to the habitation battery terminals.
My thoughts were one of these relays is for the motor battery (prob. the one near the Solar Controller) and the other for the habitation battery. The latter is almost impossible to get to as it is right behind the drivers seat.
If you think my idea is correct how do we check the 50 amp fuse?

Here's a key to pics:
1. Relay behind driver and next to hab. battery
2. Relay under Solar Controller
3. Wires at front of drivers seat with 20 amp fuse in blue
4. Grey connector and wires leading from the electrics to the hab. battery
5. Overall view of electrics layout

Thanks for helping once again.

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[DBK]

I still think you need to confirm what battery is connected to what. It is possible the controller is designed to charge two leisure batteries. Some controllers can do vehicle and leisure batteries but the terminals should show that.
I suggest measure the voltage across Bat 1 then measure the voltage of the vehicle battery using the jump lead terminals. I suspect you will find there is a difference because Bat 1 is connected to your leisure battery.

 

[denisejoe]

When you changed the battery last year did you disconect the solar as well as some chargers must have the batteries connected first then the solar

Joe

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[Saltings]

Hi John
According to the number of contacts that can be made on the solar controller (6) and how it is illustrated that controller only takes 1) solar panel, 2) battery 1 and 3) battery 2.
Battery 1 corresponds in voltage to a reading taken under the Ducato bonnet so I assume battery 2 is the habitation battery especially as the voltage (1.8 vs) is the same as the reading taken from wires under the front seat.
I disconnected the "grey" contacts beneath the seat to see if there was any reading but all I got was 0.07 vs. having plugged each part together again I find that the red flashing light (battery 2 on solar panel) is now out altogether!
I will try your suggestion of measuring between the terminals and then across the jump lead connectors under the bonnet.

 

[Saltings]

Hi Joe

Welcome to the discussion!

We didn't change the battery last year. It was changed for us about a month ago by the agent. Hopefully they know what they are doing although they never found out why it was running down and not re-charging via the solar cells.

 

[Bengaz]

Hi Joe

Welcome to the discussion!

We didn't change the battery last year. It was changed for us about a month ago by the agent. Hopefully they know what they are doing although they never found out why it was running down and not re-charging via the solar cells.

Hi, did you suss this out as I am having EXACTLY the same problem?

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