Can anyone put a date to this picture (1 Viewer)

[scotjimland]

Wasn't sure what forum to put this.. hobbies or photography .. feel free to change Jim.

I am trying to put an approximate date this photograph from the style of clothing and the bushy mutton chops.

He is an ancestor of mine, Alex Boyd, born in 1865 .. who according to the 1901 census was was a Chemist working in Glasgow

My own feeling is it is around the 1900.. or maybe just a little earlier.. what do you think ?

 

[Wildman]

he looks more like 50 than 35 to me Jim.

 

[Jim]

I wouldn't have the chap older than 45-50 in that picture, so I reckon 1910/15

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[Terry]

Well before I read both Rogers and Jims posts I had already made my mind up at late 40s to early 50s
terry

 

[pappajohn]

he looks more like 50 than 35 to me Jim.

not necessarily Roger.

look at the young men of the 40s and early 50s.......same hair style, same suit and same trilby as their dads but probably no more than 20 to 30.....old before their time in appearance.

the Teddy boy era soon changed that.

Jims ancestor has a young facial appearance but old hair so i reckon Jim is close to the date

 

[Terry]

Looks Jims (SJLs ) double to me
terry

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[scotjimland]

Looks Jims (SJLs ) double to me
terry

yes.. there is a strong resemblance..

he has that upper class aire about him.. a man you would respect.. a man who knows who he is and not to be messed with .. don't you think ?

yes..defo like me

thanks for replies.. :thumb:

 

[Wildman]

Looks Jims (SJLs ) double to me
terry

no way Terry, much younger than 105

 

[rangi]

The Collar? and the 4 button double breasted style coat, think you should date those rather than the Mutton Chops, lot of those carried on until the WW1 with a certain part of society
Have seen fellas, proud owners of Early M/cars dressed in a similar way

So?

Very Early 1900s

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[movan]

This was taken in 1910. Look at the lapels. They look very similar to me.

 

[GJH]

Jill used to do the photo dating when we had the business so I asked her to have a look and we compared the jacket style to photos in our own collection which we know the date of.

We reckon the jacket is around late 1880s/early1890s but it appears to be formal wear and formal suits did not go out of fashion so quickly as every day clothes - people would keep and wear them for several years. It would be a bit easier if he were standing so that the jacket length could be seen.

At first glance the hair looks grey but he could have been fair/sandy haired and, as John said, he looks reasonably young facially.

Putting all that together we would go with around 1900.

 

[movan]

This was 1910 too



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[magicsurfbus]

He looks too young in the face to be going grey all over so my guess is he has light-coloured hair and whiskers and you're probably looking at a photograph of him in his 30s at the very end of the 19th century. However, it would probably have been a long exposure time so the slightest movement and a bit of overexposure on the face may be covering wrinkles. Even so, the clothing looks pre-WWI, so I doubt if he's into his 50s.

Is there not a photographer's business stamp on the edge or on the back of the pic? If so you could find out when the photographer was in business from trade directories. My great grandad and his father before him were photographers around that time and all their stuff was stamped or in decorative mounts.

On a related note I recently bought an early Victorian photo album at auction because the pics in it were clearly from the 1860s, and it's a lovely item. I'm going to keep it, not sell it. All the women look like Florence Nightingale and there's a soldier in Crimean War era uniform. It has a dedication in the front dated 1862. Most of the pictures (when removed from their mounts) have visible photographer's stamps on them that give an idea of where the family must have lived. Fascinating stuff.

 

[TheBig1]

without reading the other posts i would date it to very late 19th century to about 1905. based on facial features about 35-40 years old. the suit style was common to that time too

 

[Jim]

He looks too young in the face to be going grey all over so my guess is he has light-coloured hair and whiskers and you're probably looking at a photograph of him in his 30s at the very end of the 19th century. However, it would probably have been a long exposure time so the slightest movement and a bit of overexposure on the face may be covering wrinkles. Even so, the clothing looks pre-WWI, so I doubt if he's into his 50s.

.

The hair esp the whiskers are sharp, so I doubt the face is smoothed by a long exposure. Even the box brownie was shooting at around 1/50th of a second in 1900

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[Chris]

He looks a fine upstanding chap Jim, whenever it was taken.

I have a wedding photo of my Grandad ( who died in the war) and my Grandmother hanging on my stairs and I say goodnight to them every night.

I think it's lovely having photos of people who are long gone:thumb:

 

[treetops1]

1912 i think.

 

[JohnH]

I would say about 1905 to 1910 from the style of dress. I think he was probably sandy haired which tends to look grey on sepia tints. He has quite a young looking complexion that's why I think he is early forties. Distinguished chap though.

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[artona]

A friend of mine who runs a studio in Scotland is fourth or fifth generation and his Grandfather was running the studio in Scotland about this time photographing the King of the time etc.

He still has all the ledgers from the time as well, would you like me to ask him if his ancestor took the image


stew

 

[scotjimland]

A friend of mine who runs a studio in Scotland is fourth or fifth generation and his Grandfather was running the studio in Scotland about this time photographing the King of the time etc.

He still has all the ledgers from the time as well, would you like me to ask him if his ancestor took the image


stew

Hi Stew .. yes please do..

The Stamp on the back is

T&R Annan & Sons

Portrait and Landscape Photographers

153 Sauchiehall Street
Glasgow
& Glenbank
Lenzie

Here is a site http://www.annanphotographs.co.uk/
has lot of famous people's portraits and pictures of Glasgow

More info

T. & R. Annan & Sons

Artist associated with 16 portraits
The company T. & R. Annan & Sons was established by Thomas Annan in 1855. They were official photographers at the Glasgow Exhibitions of 1888, 1901 and 1911, and received a Royal Warrant from Queen Victoria in 1889.

 

[Emmit]

Greetings,

At the HQ of the Camping and Caravanning Club there is a wall with the portraits of all their Presidents.

Their first President (who's name escapes me) has a fine set of 'Muttonchop' whiskers exactly as shown in your relative.
The guy at the C and CC was President from 1901 to 1905. Whilst I appreciate that the above doesn't nail the date as such, the photo at the Club will have probably been commissioned by them to mark the occasion.

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[Jim]

Greetings,

At the HQ of the Camping and Caravanning Club there is a wall with the portraits of all their Presidents.

Their first President (who's name escapes me) has a fine set of 'Muttonchop' whiskers exactly as shown in your relative.
The guy at the C and CC was President from 1901 to 1905. Whilst I appreciate that the above doesn't nail the date as such, the photo at the Club will have probably been commissioned by them to mark the occasion.

What a good idea, I should grow some muttonchops and get my picture taken for motorhomefun posterity

 

[Popeye]

Have a good long look at that face, he's very late thirties or early forties so I'll have a pound each way on 1903 or 1904.............sorted.

 

[Puddleduck]

I'm checking John Peacock's "Costume 1066-1990s A Complete guide to English Costume Design and History"

The nearest I can date the top (frock?) coat would be 1895-1905 (double breasted with silk piping around collar and part way up sleeves) and the high buttoned waistcoat more 1901-1905 as there is no collar to the waistcoat as shown in Peacock's 1895-1901 samples. White bow tie is also more 1901-05. Later on the waistcoat neckline was lower and the silk piping appears to have had it's day.

Obviously there would be regional differences and the photo is Scottish. I'm pretty sure the earliest the top coat could be dated would be 1895 but hazzard a guess at post 1901 and if pushed would guess at most likely to be around 1905 or even slightly later.

Another thing to remember is that quite often photographers had clothes that they lent to customers.

I would also guess that the gentleman had more than a hint of "sandy red" in his hair which makes it appear very pale on the photo. It looks like someone has tried to colour in the hair at some point.

Lovely photo btw.

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[scotjimland]

I'm checking John Peacock's "Costume 1066-1990s A Complete guide to English Costume Design and History"

The nearest I can date the top (frock?) coat would be 1895-1905 (double breasted with silk piping around collar and part way up sleeves) and the high buttoned waistcoat more 1901-1905 as there is no collar to the waistcoat as shown in Peacock's 1895-1901 samples. White bow tie is also more 1901-05. Later on the waistcoat neckline was lower and the silk piping appears to have had it's day.

Obviously there would be regional differences and the photo is Scottish. I'm pretty sure the earliest the top coat could be dated would be 1895 but hazzard a guess at post 1901 and if pushed would guess at most likely to be around 1905 or even slightly later.

Another thing to remember is that quite often photographers had clothes that they lent to customers.

I would also guess that the gentleman had more than a hint of "sandy red" in his hair which makes it appear very pale on the photo. [HI]It looks like someone has tried to colour in the hair at some point.[/HI]

Lovely photo btw.

Thanks for the information.. and for taking the time to look at it..

I've had another look at the original with a glass and it looks like someone has indeed tried to cover over a bald patch .. looks like feint pencil marks.. also on the center of the his right mutton chop..

just for interest he was my great great grandmother's brother..

One of his brothers , Robert Boyd.. became a Governor on Fiji around 1900 .. retired to NZ in 1927 .. was awarded the OBE in 1926 for services to the people of Fiji ..

This photo has a message on the back with the place and date, Suva Fiji, 4th Oct 1900. sent from Fiji to my great aunt..
not in great shape.. looks like someone played darts on it

I love family history.. most of the time it is mundane.. but then you find something or someone who is really interesting.. other times very tragic.

 

[magicsurfbus]

It's always worth considering when dating photos that some people in middle age still sport the hair (and whisker) styles of their younger days. It probably explains why the two ladies who ran the village Co-op during my 1960s childhood looked like they'd stepped straight out of WWII, and why the manager at my first proper job in the late 70s looked like an ageing Clark Gable. Photos of older men in the early 20th century often show them with the hairstyles of the previous century.

It goes a long way to explaining why the bald patch with pony tail look (I call it 'the tennis racquet') is still prevalent among men of a certain age these days, and why my own hairstyle hasn't altered much in the last twenty years, apart from there being less of it on top.

 

[Wildbill]

I would say 1898 as somewhere a there a simler photo of my grate grandfather taken in Glasgow I think my brother has it at the moment will check with him on the date written on the back it sticks in my memory as it used to be in the hall of my mothers house along with all the other ancestors scary the pose is so alike could have been taken at the same studio

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[Puddleduck]

I am an amateur genealogist as well Jim. As you say a lot is mundane but sometimes there is a real thrill, like the upright maiden Aunt who was a pillar of the church .... and then you find she had three illegitimate children!

Occasionally I do some sleuthing in the archives for other people and it is amazing what you find out. My friend's Dad asked if I could find out anything about his Grandparents as his parents refused to let him visit his paternal Grandmother so he never knew her. He got quite a shock when he discovered she was a lady of negotiable affection!

 

[rosalan]

Try and think back what you were wearing at the turn of the century. I, of course was not there, but my mental history of fashion and dress code, would place the coat at around 1900 if not a bit earlier
I think that the chap is quite young but trying to look much older than his years. Smooth skin and beginning to thin out on top.

Alan