Clattering when cold (1 Viewer)

[Allanm]

Already posted this on the Autosleeper forum and am considering contacting Peugeot to see what they say. Just as a bit of background, the engine runs fine, smooth with plenty of power, so, here goes.....
We have a 2013 Autosleeper Broadway FB on a Peugeot base ( 2.2 HDI Euro 5). The engine has always sounded noisy for a spilt second when starting, sounds like a bus as it starts but settles down to idle quietly immediately . I expected it to quiten down as the engine bedded in, but after 5000 miles it's still the same, so I guess that's how it's going to stay.
But when cold, if I start it then drive with anything less than a very light right foot straight away, I get a loud diesel clattering in each gear, the noise usually goes by the time I am in fourth then engine is very quiet and it runs very smoothly, well, as smooth as a Peugeot/ Ford engine can!
I also noticed in December, when it was really cold(-5) I accelerated from cold up a steep hill and the clattering continued for a while, in fact the engine sounded noisy for a good few miles on tick over and acceleration then I suddenly noticed it was quiet again next time we stopped.
Anybody else have the same base vehicle with associated clattering or is it just mine? Just a thought, it may only do this ( apart from the startup) on French diesel, if usually has a full tank of it.
Allan

 

[Peter JohnsCross MH]

Possibly/maybe but not guaranteed a poor injector that sorts itself as soon as the cylinder gets warm from cold

Peter

 

[laneside]

I will go along with Peter on it being a less than good injector

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[Allanm]

I have booked the van into the Peugeot dealers this morning. I've also recorded the noise to help negate the " we can't find anything wrong sir" response that I am bound to get because the engine will be warmed up by the time I get there. They suggested leaving the van all day so it cools down, so that sounds promising
What didn't sound do good was the talk of having to pay £89 + vat in case they find it's not a warranty issue or I take it somewhere else to be fixed.
They are already getting defensive!
Oh well, we'll see how it goes. I can't leave it overnight because I thought we might have a day out in Battle on Wednesday. I believe there's a Motorhome dealer nearby that we might visit to buy some chairs n stuff from.....
Now, what was their name again...............

Allan

 

[jonandshell]

Cold cylinders tend to cause condensation of the atomised fuel upon injection.
This causes an uncontrolled burn and often some detonation.
In modern engines, where we are used to optimised burn, low emissions and quiet running, this knock can be very pronounced in contrast to normal running
Of the 5 diesel vehicles I have driven in the last few years, all exhibited some knock during hard acceleration from cold.
We live next to a busy A road, hard acceleration with a cold engine is often called for when trying to pull out on the way to work!

 

[Allanm]

I can see that, but we have 2 x 2L diesel cars at home, and had a new 2.l diesel engined beetle a few year ago ( 2008) and while I admit they are a little noisier when cold, none of them sound like the Peugeot.
It would be more reassuring if someone with a similar engined vehicle said their's sounded the same, but I have posted this on the Autosleeper forum and no one has the same noise.
Latest suggestion though from there was that the engine had been assembled with the wrong pistons!
Like Peter says, its probably injectors or maybe the pump timing is off, I don't think its anything serious because its as quiet as I would expect once it has travelled a few hundred metres.

Allan

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[zulurita]

Similar thing to ours but happened after it had been raining.

We had our dealer Chelston Motorhomes also Fiat dealer to look into it. I know it's no help but I have forgotten what it was but they did sort it.

 

[Wildbill]

it sound like a injector to me I will go with peter I had I van the sounded like that a it was a works van run sweet as a nut once warmed up.
There was a bit of bleed back on the injector system that tended to cause a bit of a knock till air was displaced was fixed by a no return valve in the system but it would be sluggish to start.
yours from wat you are saying starts ok
BILL

 

[Allanm]

Well, the garage has it now. They may want to keep it overnight to see for themselves what the noise is.
Hopefully, they will do some checks first. They did ask me if it had been serviced, but it hasn't, 9 months old and 5400 miles and the service indicator shows I have 24000 miles to go!
Will report back tomorrow.

Allan

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[jhorsf]

How can it NOT BE a warranty problem?

"What didn't sound do good was the talk of having to pay £89 + vat in case they find it's not a warranty issue or I take it somewhere else to be fixed"

I wonder if the Dealer you bought it from new mentioned having to pay in case they decide "they all do that sir" OR "its within the spec"OR "WE CANT HEAR A NOISE":shout:

 

[Allanm]

to be honest, it was the Peugeot dealer that mentioned the £89 when I rang yesterday. They warrant the base vehicle so they can fix it. Nothing was said today when I dropped it off, but I did record the engine noise and play it to the chap on reception who seemed to react appropriately.
Got nothing to fiddle with now. Might have to get the mower out and do some fettling before it goes on ebay.
Allan

 

[jhorsf]

any news?

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[DBK]

He's warmed up now so gone quiet.

 

[Allanm]

..........
I wonder if the Dealer you bought it from new mentioned having to pay in case they decide "they all do that sir" OR "its within the spec"OR "WE CANT HEAR A NOISE":shout:

Give that man a coconut!

Well, I got a call late yesterday, they couldn't find any noise so wanted to keep it overnight.
This morning at about 11, I got another call. See above in red!

Apparently, they couldn't find anything wrong. The startup noise is "what they would expect" and any other noises were normal.....

Anyway, I went to collect it and there was no one about to question about their findings, so I took it home.

Oh, forgot to say to them, I have a dash cam fitted, that will record everything they do with the ignition turned on oh:

So, I reviewed the footage.
Yesterday, an hour after I left it, they took it into the workshop. 7 minutes later, they took it for a test drive.
This morning, this was recorded.
[ame="http://youtu.be/V70OEc3hGXc"]http://youtu.be/V70OEc3hGXc[/ame]

Surprisingly, the turbo still works.....

Allan

 

[aba]

I wouldnt be taking it there again oh:

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[TheBig1]

sounds like a bag of old spanners to me. I would take it to a diesel specialist to check the injectors

as for the muppets revving the guts out of it, well its a good job it didnt go bang on them leaving them with a very big insurance claim. keep the video in case you continue with issues with the engine. I would also email a link to it to the big boss at the garage you used

 

[Wildbill]

I would be taking it to a mechanic I would have dropped it in to gear and ran that twat over think it needs a proper camper doctor but take it to a specialist garage that sounds like shite that engine it.s going to throw a con rod through the crank casing

 

[Allanm]

That was the main Peugeot dealer in Canterbury, Motorline. They certainly won't be having the van for its first service!
Don't worry, an email with link will be on its way to the MD.
I stressed to them the noise is only apparent when you drive it from cold for the first few gear changes. So, they drove it an hour after I had left it there and not surprisingly heard nothing, then, when the should have driven it, they just revved it up when it was cold.
You just cannot believe how useless these people are till you see them at work.
They must have also topped up the oil because they got it everywhere and there are fresh oil drips on my driveway from the spillage, even though the oil was at the right level.

Allan

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[jhorsf]

Nice to see they put their top Technicians on the job

 

[Allanm]

Nice to see they put their top Technicians on the job

Yeah, but it's only a cheap van.....

The engine is generally very quiet, the engine noise in the video isn't really what it sounds like, thank goodness, and the engine still sounded good when I drove it home, in fact it sounded remarkably quiet, but I have a cold so my ears are probably blocked.

When I got home, my neighbour drove past me in her newish Freelander2. It sounded just like mine when it's cold. I believe both vehicles have Ford 2.2 litre engines

Allan

 

[jonandshell]

I had a 2.2 Transit for 140 000 miles it always knocked from cold.

The 2.4 in our MH is a lot quieter!

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[jonandshell]

As for the doom mongers predicting the demise of the engine and turbo, there is no way any harm was caused.
The turbo was cool, the oil was thick. No problem with an immediate shutdown!
As for the engine itself, the management system keeps everything within safe limits. The only way you can overspeed an engine these days is to overrun it down a hill or dump it imto too low a gear!

 

[jhorsf]

Not quite it can over speed and destroy its self if it fuels from the turbo oil feed

 

[jonandshell]

Not quite it can over speed and destroy its self if it fuels from the turbo oil feed

Rarely, yes!

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[TheBig1]

As for the doom mongers predicting the demise of the engine and turbo, there is no way any harm was caused.
The turbo was cool, the oil was thick. No problem with an immediate shutdown!
As for the engine itself, the management system keeps everything within safe limits. The only way you can overspeed an engine these days is to overrun it down a hill or dump it imto too low a gear!

The problem is I was always taught differently. plenty of videos on youtube showing diesel engines self destructing. plus with a suspected faulty engine is it particularly wise to red line it from cold??

 

[Allanm]

sounds like a bag of old spanners to me. I would take it to a diesel specialist to check the injectors

as for the muppets revving the guts out of it, well its a good job it didnt go bang on them leaving them with a very big insurance claim. keep the video in case you continue with issues with the engine. I would also email a link to it to the big boss at the garage you used

Email sent to the boss with a link to the video this morning. No reply or acknowledgement yet.
When I spoke to the service engineer about the noise when it was cold, he said to never rev a turbo diesel hard when cold.
I wonder if he was the [STRIKE]jerk[/STRIKE] mechanic who was revving it up!
Allan

 

[jonandshell]

The problem is I was always taught differently. plenty of videos on youtube showing diesel engines self destructing. plus with a suspected faulty engine is it particularly wise to red line it from cold??

At least 25 years of progressing automotive technolgy has made engines a bit more foolproof!
I agree its best to have a bit of mechanical symphathy but modern engine management systems protect against hire car driving technique!
I have witnessed the change in diesel engine design over the years, from Simms and CAV pumps through to the latest common rail systems. Reliability and quality of materials has never been better. Taking out the direct link with the drivers right foot has helped especially!

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[easygirl]

You cant red line most modern engines when cold , they are limited, so dont worry there will be no harm done at all to the engine.

 

[chaser]

Fordson majors use to have oil bath air cleaners , if you filled too full they would run themselves,hell of a job to stop em, just kept goin faster till the oil ran out, scary the first time you see it.
Belting engine though, got one one 1952, it can stand for months and start first touch, and run for a week on a cup full of diesel, iv had since 1969 and it's never had a spanner on it, can't say they have improved on it.

 

[jezport]

It is very common for the ford diesel enginesto have injector faults. My last transit needed new injectors at under 11K . Symptoms were that it was noisy when cold and occasionally slightly smokey. The ford injectors are coded and have to be programmed into the ecu, occasionally they need reprogramming into the ecu.

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