Should we be worried by this dealers response! (1 Viewer)

Emmenay

Free Member
Dec 11, 2011
505
481
Funster No
19,163
MH
Swift Kon-tiki 600
Exp
Since 2011
As many of you may already be aware I had an incident in Spain a few months ago whereby my Maxview satellite dome detatched from my roof while travelling along a motorway.
My opinion was that it was very poorly fitted from the off, and the fitting dealer had a duty to at least inspect the remains and my roof for future safety.
I have had many email discussions with the fitting dealer which only illuminated their keeness to blame me or other factors for the detatchment.
To date they have not requested any parts to inspect for possible future safety issues and they have managed to evade any comments regarding the photographs I sent them.
The reason I say it was poorly fitted was because of WHERE it was fitted. Two of the feet were partially resting on a roof join which is slightly raised, therefore not allowing the feet to sit level and not rest on the adhesive. (see photo's) and also not allowing the supplied screws to bite into the roof properly.

Here are some of the dealers reasons for the failure with my (in red) replies;

1. A previous impact could have cased it. Surely any impact enough to cause this would have smashed the dome cover rather than cleanly separate all four feet.
2. Our two short trips to Spain could have been too much heat for the adhesive thereby breaking it down. Sikaflex etc is UV and all weather resistant. If the Spanish sun has caused this then a lot of people not only using the product but the makers as well should be very concerned.
3. A cleaning agent could have had a breaking down effect on the adhesive.
To my shame I have not been able to clean the roof because of lack of access although the the vehicle was mopped and polished by me ready for the trip to Spain and the dome APPEARED to be in place as usual. What cleaning product gentle enough for our vans is hard enough to break down the adhesive?
4. There is no access to the roof so it may not have been inspected. A hab check is not a legal requirement and I am competent enough to do my own inspecting which is on a rolling basis. Even if it could be accessed I wouldn't try to unstick the adhesive to see if it was stuck!
5. In the two years and 8000 miles since it was fitted somebody else could have removed and poorly replaced the system. This theory could be applied to anything fitted by any dealer even after a couple of weeks and a couple of miles so they get out of any situation.

To be fair I have never asked the dealer for anything, no replacement, no money, no discounts for anything. All I have asked for is their comments on the photo's I supplied them and to carry out their moral resposibilty which is to look into the matter properly. As yet all they have done is try to sell me a new system with about £100 off. I don't even want another dome although I am gradually repairing the damaged one maybe for cheap resale.

I have recently spoken to Maxview who confirmed that the feet SHOULD NOT have detached from the roof and the only way would be for the surfaces to be unprepaired. I can confirm that the mating surfaces of the feet and the roof have not been prepared ie. roughing with a suitable abrasive or similar.

Now that I have banged on about it I invite you all to inspect the pictures that I sent to the dealer.
The arrows on two of the pics are pointing to where the feet were resting on the roof join.

As for the name of the dealer...all in good time if it is justified!
Thanks for reading. :thumb:
 

Attachments

  • DSC_0502.jpg
    DSC_0502.jpg
    97.2 KB · Views: 269
  • DSC_0505.jpg
    DSC_0505.jpg
    98.2 KB · Views: 234
  • DSC_0506.jpg
    DSC_0506.jpg
    97.4 KB · Views: 215
  • IMG_20140110_111326.jpg
    IMG_20140110_111326.jpg
    96.3 KB · Views: 228
  • IMG_20140110_111554.jpg
    IMG_20140110_111554.jpg
    97.5 KB · Views: 218

lee52

Free Member
Oct 13, 2013
327
119
tyne and wear
Funster No
28,546
MH
selfbuild
Exp
newbie
well I am not a expert but you can clearly see some of the sparingly used sikaflex has not been in contact with the full area of the feet and u can see it has quite clearly stuck to the MH roof and come away from the feet so did they degrease/clean the feet? u can also quite clearly see it has not been refitted theres only one lot of sikaflex

i think they have not used enough adesive, poor location and relying on the screws the big question is have they used sikaflex? or is it just a cheap silicone sealant?
 
Feb 9, 2008
8,924
18,663
Corby, Northants
Funster No
1,455
MH
Coach Built
Exp
Since 2007
This is very unusual to say the least. I can understand the dealer not taking responsibility, especially as it has been in place for over two years. Is there any 'time' guarantee/warranty provided by the dealer who fitted it. ? If not, i think you may be on a hiding to nothing. Sorry if this is not want you want to hear, I just fail to see how the dealer is going to be convinced they got it wrong !
Clearly the email responses are from someone who has no technical knowledge and probably some sales geek, in my honest opinion.
 
OP
OP
Emmenay

Emmenay

Free Member
Dec 11, 2011
505
481
Funster No
19,163
MH
Swift Kon-tiki 600
Exp
Since 2011
This is very unusual to say the least. I can understand the dealer not taking responsibility, especially as it has been in place for over two years. Is there any 'time' guarantee/warranty provided by the dealer who fitted it. ? If not, i think you may be on a hiding to nothing. Sorry if this is not want you want to hear, I just fail to see how the dealer is going to be convinced they got it wrong !
Clearly the email responses are from someone who has no technical knowledge and probably some sales geek, in my honest opinion.

The dealer states that 2 years and 8000 miles later they are not interested.
I wonder if it was 2 years and 800 miles later or even 80 miles,or, what about 8000 miles and 1 year, I think I was on a hiding to nothing regardless.
The sales geeks were the company owners who should have been a bit more responsible with this one I think as it could damage their no doubt good reputation.:thumb:

Subscribers  do not see these advertisements

 
Aug 27, 2009
19,788
23,032
Hertfordshire
Funster No
8,178
MH
Van Conversion
Exp
40 years
As many of you may already be aware I had an incident in Spain a few months ago whereby my Maxview satellite dome detatched from my roof while travelling along a motorway.
My opinion was that it was very poorly fitted from the off, and the fitting dealer had a duty to at least inspect the remains and my roof for future safety.
I have had many email discussions with the fitting dealer which only illuminated their keeness to blame me or other factors for the detatchment.
To date they have not requested any parts to inspect for possible future safety issues and they have managed to evade any comments regarding the photographs I sent them.
The reason I say it was poorly fitted was because of WHERE it was fitted. Two of the feet were partially resting on a roof join which is slightly raised, therefore not allowing the feet to sit level and not rest on the adhesive. (see photo's) and also not allowing the supplied screws to bite into the roof properly.

Here are some of the dealers reasons for the failure with my (in red) replies;

1. A previous impact could have cased it. Surely any impact enough to cause this would have smashed the dome cover rather than cleanly separate all four feet.
2. Our two short trips to Spain could have been too much heat for the adhesive thereby breaking it down. Sikaflex etc is UV and all weather resistant. If the Spanish sun has caused this then a lot of people not only using the product but the makers as well should be very concerned.
3. A cleaning agent could have had a breaking down effect on the adhesive.
To my shame I have not been able to clean the roof because of lack of access although the the vehicle was mopped and polished by me ready for the trip to Spain and the dome APPEARED to be in place as usual. What cleaning product gentle enough for our vans is hard enough to break down the adhesive?
4. There is no access to the roof so it may not have been inspected. A hab check is not a legal requirement and I am competent enough to do my own inspecting which is on a rolling basis. Even if it could be accessed I wouldn't try to unstick the adhesive to see if it was stuck!
5. In the two years and 8000 miles since it was fitted somebody else could have removed and poorly replaced the system. This theory could be applied to anything fitted by any dealer even after a couple of weeks and a couple of miles so they get out of any situation.

To be fair I have never asked the dealer for anything, no replacement, no money, no discounts for anything. All I have asked for is their comments on the photo's I supplied them and to carry out their moral resposibilty which is to look into the matter properly. As yet all they have done is try to sell me a new system with about £100 off. I don't even want another dome although I am gradually repairing the damaged one maybe for cheap resale.

I have recently spoken to Maxview who confirmed that the feet SHOULD NOT have detached from the roof and the only way would be for the surfaces to be unprepaired. I can confirm that the mating surfaces of the feet and the roof have not been prepared ie. roughing with a suitable abrasive or similar.

Now that I have banged on about it I invite you all to inspect the pictures that I sent to the dealer.
The arrows on two of the pics are pointing to where the feet were resting on the roof join.

As for the name of the dealer...all in good time if it is justified!
Thanks for reading. :thumb:
I'm sure they will take your comments on board and address any future fittings. As far as admitting any blame after 2 years and 8000 miles very unlikely. In my opinion they have answered your questions but perhaps not in an agreeable way. If you are not after any recompense and thankfully no one was injured on the motorway I guess I would put it down to experience and get on with my life.
 

Landy lover

LIFE MEMBER
Jul 11, 2009
2,296
5,928
Zummerzet
Funster No
7,453
MH
27ft Eurolight
Exp
Camping Caravaning now 5'ering 49 years
Personally I would think a good approach is to find out who it the owner / chairman / managing director and pen a firm but very polite email stating your dissatisfaction with the response so far and ask if he would please look into the matter as many people are looking for this information on Motorhome Fun on of the biggest motorhome forums in Europe to ensure they do not have similar problems.

No threats given no blame laid just a polite request ::bigsmile:
 
OP
OP
Emmenay

Emmenay

Free Member
Dec 11, 2011
505
481
Funster No
19,163
MH
Swift Kon-tiki 600
Exp
Since 2011
I'm sure they will take your comments on board and address any future fittings. As far as admitting any blame after 2 years and 8000 miles very unlikely. In my opinion they have answered your questions but perhaps not in an agreeable way. If you are not after any recompense and thankfully no one was injured on the motorway I guess I would put it down to experience and get on with my life.

I'm a bit confused as to what questions you feel they have answered.

Yes I should just move on but when a company feels they dont need to investigae a serious issue that pisses me off!

Subscribers  do not see these advertisements

 

Jim

Ringleader
Jul 19, 2007
36,194
128,631
Sutton on Sea, UK
Funster No
1
MH
Adria Panel Van.
Exp
Since 1988
This one will always be hard to resolve as if I recall correctly, you were not the customer. The dealer could argue that anything could have happened, since he did the job and you bought the vehicle, it might even have been moved and replaced, repositioned etc. While you are not the customer its difficult to know what to do for the best.

If you are convinced its the dealer, write him a proposal, tell him precisely where you consider he has fallen short, what you want from him in recompense and what you are going to do if he ignores you. Your actions could involve adverse publicity, small claims court etc. If you don't fancy the hassle that will entail, then walk away wiser and forget about it.

Best of luck:thumb:
 
OP
OP
Emmenay

Emmenay

Free Member
Dec 11, 2011
505
481
Funster No
19,163
MH
Swift Kon-tiki 600
Exp
Since 2011
Lets suppose for one crazy minute here that it actually fell off because of poor fitting, what then, what of the dealer, he just ignores the issue washes his hands and carries on regardless? How would each of us feel if it was you?
 

lee52

Free Member
Oct 13, 2013
327
119
tyne and wear
Funster No
28,546
MH
selfbuild
Exp
newbie
I think it should be taken further end of the day if you pay for a service u expect it to be done right and safely, imagine if it hit a car behind u on the motorway and caused an accident?

Subscribers  do not see these advertisements

 

Jaws

LIFE MEMBER
Sep 26, 2008
23,821
71,977
Thetford Norfolk
Funster No
4,189
MH
C class, Chieftain
Exp
since 2006 ( I think ! )
I do not know about outside the UK, but here it is considered a loose load, for which you can be banned from driving pretty much instantly

Of course if it DID fall off then the police would be involved and quite probably would want to know who fitted the thing as they would be the people who 'loaded' the dome on to the vehicle.

Even then I doubt they would take it very far.

Ultimately we. as in the driver, are responsible for the condition of our vehicles and what is attached to them.

I appreciate that in the case of a dish or indeed anything else attached to a hard to access roof, but that would not change anything in the eyes of the law

In fact with that in mind, I think I may well do a small mod to mine at some time.. Fit a trailer break away cable to the dish assembly and the roof rail.. Just in case !!
 

Jim

Ringleader
Jul 19, 2007
36,194
128,631
Sutton on Sea, UK
Funster No
1
MH
Adria Panel Van.
Exp
Since 1988
Lets suppose for one crazy minute here that it actually fell off because of poor fitting, what then, what of the dealer, he just ignores the issue washes his hands and carries on regardless? How would each of us feel if it was you?

If it was me... Well apart from cause a bit of trouble for him there is not a lot you can do. Write to trading standards, get him some adverse publicity etc. But there is a cost to battles like this, and its not all monetary. taking people to court, even when you are right is stressful. For me, I'd want this behind me (like it was when it fell off :roflmto:) ASAP, Do what I could to make him see the error of his ways and then forget about it.

Subscribers  do not see these advertisements

 

Jim

Ringleader
Jul 19, 2007
36,194
128,631
Sutton on Sea, UK
Funster No
1
MH
Adria Panel Van.
Exp
Since 1988
I think it should be taken further end of the day if you pay for a service u expect it to be done right and safely, imagine if it hit a car behind u on the motorway and caused an accident?

That's right Lee, but its made more difficult because Emmenay didn't pay, he bought it from the person who had it fitted.
 
OP
OP
Emmenay

Emmenay

Free Member
Dec 11, 2011
505
481
Funster No
19,163
MH
Swift Kon-tiki 600
Exp
Since 2011
Just to clarify, when I bought the van it had a 2 month (approx) old dome fitted by the dealer for the previous owner, the mileage indicates that the dome had not travelled and lets be honest it was unlikely to have been damaged or moved.
I understand that I am on a loser but I am very angry at the lack of care or botherations from the dealer.

Is this the correct response from me now....I GIVE UP, I WILL JUST TAKE IT UP THE JACKSY AND SAY THANK YOU!
 
Last edited:

Armytwowheels

LIFE MEMBER
Aug 10, 2012
6,446
14,775
Market Harborough
Funster No
22,346
MH
Carthago S Plus - Iveco
Exp
Since 2011
I should probably not comment on this thread as I am as technically competent as a plank of wood. However, in with both feet.

Looking at the pictures the fact that the two areas by the roof join have very dirty sikaflex and the opposite two are relatively clean would prove that they were not stuck down properly. General dirt and grim has managed to get between the feet and the sikaflex, which it wouldn't have done if it had been sealed properly.

Or am I missing something here?

Subscribers  do not see these advertisements

 
Last edited:

Armytwowheels

LIFE MEMBER
Aug 10, 2012
6,446
14,775
Market Harborough
Funster No
22,346
MH
Carthago S Plus - Iveco
Exp
Since 2011
Just to clarify, when I bought the van it had a 2 month (approx) old dome fitted by the previous owner, the mileage indicates that the dome had not travelled and lets be honest it was unlikely to have been damaged or moved.
I understand that I am on a loser but I am very angry at the lack of care or botherations from the dealer.

Is this the correct response from me now....I GIVE UP, I WILL JUST TAKE IT UP THE JACKSY AND SAY THANK YOU!

Why not ask an independent fitter to inspect the van and give you a professional report. Armed with this you could try approaching the original company again, presuming the 2nd fitter confirms your claim, at least you would know one way or the other.

P.s you will find a reputable expert advertising at the top of this thread! Dave somebody or other!
 
Last edited:

Jim

Ringleader
Jul 19, 2007
36,194
128,631
Sutton on Sea, UK
Funster No
1
MH
Adria Panel Van.
Exp
Since 1988
Is this the correct response from me now....I GIVE UP, I WILL JUST TAKE IT UP THE JACKSY AND SAY THANK YOU!

No I wouldn't give up yet. Do some of the things suggested above and hope that the dealer is moved to help. If he does not, do what you promise. Then you make a decision to either take a chunk out of your life, time and wallet and take them on, or take it up the jacksy and hobble away and move on.:roflmto:
 

lee52

Free Member
Oct 13, 2013
327
119
tyne and wear
Funster No
28,546
MH
selfbuild
Exp
newbie
That's right Lee, but its made more difficult because Emmenay didn't pay, he bought it from the person who had it fitted.

oh right I didnt release they where the orig customer as it where, for me its not really about the money its about educating them so this doesnt happen again as it could be fatal

Subscribers  do not see these advertisements

 
OP
OP
Emmenay

Emmenay

Free Member
Dec 11, 2011
505
481
Funster No
19,163
MH
Swift Kon-tiki 600
Exp
Since 2011
oh right I didnt release they where the orig customer as it where, for me its not really about the money its about educating them so this doesnt happen again as it could be fatal

Worryingly if you google 'satellite dome fallen off', it appears to have happened on more than a few occasions.
Ours was very nearly a calamity as it did hit a car going in the same direction, god only knows how It wasn't a major incident!
Its all about the safety aspect for me as a I have investigated a fair few!
 
Jan 26, 2010
575
1,491
Conwy, North Wales
Funster No
10,092
MH
Relay self build
Exp
Since 2007
I'm not sure of the civil law but my take on it (for what it is worth) is that the supplying company only have a possible liability to the person that they entered into the original contract with.

I would therefore get some advice before threatening or going down the route of litigation with this case.
 
OP
OP
Emmenay

Emmenay

Free Member
Dec 11, 2011
505
481
Funster No
19,163
MH
Swift Kon-tiki 600
Exp
Since 2011
I'm not sure of the civil law but my take on it (for what it is worth) is that the supplying company only have a possible liability to the person that they entered into the original contract with.

I would therefore get some advice before threatening or going down the route of litigation with this case.

I won't be threatening or going down the litigation route as the dealer knows full well this is a case of 'Go away little man we are considerably richer than you'.
My only reason for posting today was to get some opinions on the pictures and to see if i was overreacting. For some reason there seems to be a reluctence to comment on the pictures themselves (apart from a couple).

Subscribers  do not see these advertisements

 

Jaws

LIFE MEMBER
Sep 26, 2008
23,821
71,977
Thetford Norfolk
Funster No
4,189
MH
C class, Chieftain
Exp
since 2006 ( I think ! )
Unlike most folk think, a dome adds far more wind resistance than a standard Oyster dish when lowered.
 

Chris

LIFE MEMBER
May 5, 2010
21,007
274,568
Funster No
11,412
MH
None
Exp
10 years
I'm not sure of the civil law but my take on it (for what it is worth) is that the supplying company only have a possible liability to the person that they entered into the original contract with.

I would therefore get some advice before threatening or going down the route of litigation with this case.

I think that's right, but in this case its possible that their duty of care extended beyond the contracting party because they knew (or ought to have known) that motorhomes are a commodity that are frequently traded, and that exterior items such as these if improperly fitted, are likely to be dangerous.

I think I agree with Jim on this. Dont give up but think before you jump into litigation.
 

DBK

LIFE MEMBER
Jan 9, 2013
17,969
47,804
Plympton, Devon
Funster No
24,219
MH
PVC, Murvi Morocco
Exp
2013
You will not risk any serious money going down the small claims court. I also don't think the fact the dome was fitted for the previous owner makes a difference, providing it was fitted by the dealer you bought the van off and you have evidence for that. Your contract was for a van fit for purpose, including any extras fitted to it. There is as far as I know no specific time limit on claims. The phrase used is "reasonable period of time" and this varies on a case by case basis. If you bought an orange in a supermarket and it went bad after 2 weeks you wouldn't have any basis of a claim but you could reasonably have expected your dome to remain in place for more than two years.

Give the link I sent earlier a try, the very threat of court action may jolt the dealer into making an offer which you may or may not decide to accept.

Afternote: Brain finally kicked into gear. You have 6 years to make a claim under SOGA although for second hand goods this may/can be reduced: Page 11 and 33 here: http://sogahub.tradingstandards.gov.uk/sites/default/files/OFT002_SOGA_explained.pdf
This doesn't mean you have a 6 year guarantee but the dealer MUST deal with your complaint and cannot say it is too late.

Subscribers  do not see these advertisements

 
Last edited:

Chris

LIFE MEMBER
May 5, 2010
21,007
274,568
Funster No
11,412
MH
None
Exp
10 years
You will not risk any serious money going down the small claims court. [HI]I also don't think the fact the dome was fitted for the previous owner makes a difference, providing it was fitted by the dealer you bought the van off and you have evidence for that[/HI]. Your contract was for a van fit for purpose, including any extras fitted to it. There is as far as I know no specific time limit on claims. The phrase used is "reasonable period of time" and this varies on a case by case basis. If you bought an orange in a supermarket and it went bad after 2 weeks you wouldn't have any basis of a claim but you could reasonably have expected your dome to remain in place for more than two years.

Give the link I sent earlier a try, the very threat of court action may jolt the dealer into making an offer which you may or may not decide to accept.

It was my understanding that it wasn't bought from the dealer but rather privately from the person the dealer did fit it for.

I could be wrong though.
 

DBK

LIFE MEMBER
Jan 9, 2013
17,969
47,804
Plympton, Devon
Funster No
24,219
MH
PVC, Murvi Morocco
Exp
2013
It was my understanding that it wasn't bought from the dealer but rather privately from the person the dealer did fit it for.

I could be wrong though.

If that's true then probably a lost cause without taking to court the person they bought it off but might still be worth speaking to a solicitor. You should be able to get free advice as to whether there is a case. However, SOGA and all the other stuff doesn't apply to private sales. Caveat emptor and all that. Downside of private sales/purchases I guess.
 
Last edited:
OP
OP
Emmenay

Emmenay

Free Member
Dec 11, 2011
505
481
Funster No
19,163
MH
Swift Kon-tiki 600
Exp
Since 2011
It was my understanding that it wasn't bought from the dealer but rather privately from the person the dealer did fit it for.

I could be wrong though.

The dome was fitted by a dealer down south. The owner of the vehicle then sold it to different dealer who sold it to me along with the documents receipts etc for the dome. I naturally assumed the guarantee would carry on, i dont know. At the point I bought it the dome had not really covered any miles.

Subscribers  do not see these advertisements

 

Join us or log in to post a reply.

To join in you must be a member of MotorhomeFun

Join MotorhomeFun

Join us, it quick and easy!

Log in

Already a member? Log in here.

Latest journal entries

Funsters who are viewing this thread

Back
Top