Habitation Electrics with engine running (2 Viewers)

Dec 28, 2011
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I know that UK made vehicles don't have this facility (which I think is daft) and I have read threads that say it can be done. So I had a look through back threads and came upon this one from Nigel&Debbie posted on the 6/4/2013 in this forum, titled "how to have lights on with engine running".

Could you clever people please have a look and tell me if it seems like an ok method to you, as I can do this on our Comanche quite easily. I have had the panels off for a look and have identified the wire and it seems straight forward.

All opinions gratefully received, good or bad :thumb:
 

TheBig1

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its a simple case of disconnecting one wire at the control panel and fitting a switch so the "feature" can be restored if needed. From memory its blue with red, but wait till somebody else has confirmed this before you start cutting wires
 

haganap

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I done mine myself.

I found the live feed to the Sargeant unit from the engine, then from the sargeant unit to the Hab, snipped and switch added.
Obviously you lose the auto step retraction if the switch is on but everything else works including the fridge.

The only reason we took this cause of action was to ensure that the loo could be used on the move, but more importantly so that I can use the B2B charger whilst the van is stationary. So after four or 5 days camped up, if the batteries die I can flick the switch, start up and rapidly charge batteries without losing all of the facilities inside.

TBH Ive used it so rarely it's been hardly worth doing. :Blush:

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haganap

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Having gone back and read the thread that you refered too. That sounds quite right to me. Similar action to mine but obviously located somewhere different (mines a Swift group van)...
 

Vlad The Impaler

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I did mine on my Apache,didn't bother with a switch,just cut it so that If needed they can be reconnected .The electric step still works and its great in winter as the kids can have the lights on in the back on dark nights.





Vlad.

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knokinonabit
Dec 28, 2011
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I did mine on my Apache,didn't bother with a switch,just cut it so that If needed they can be reconnected .The electric step still works and its great in winter as the kids can have the lights on in the back on dark nights.





Vlad.

Did you cut the wire in that is under the panel down by the side of the drivers seat ?
 

Vlad The Impaler

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The wire I cut was going into the back of my Sargent unit,located in one of the overhead cupboards behind drivers seat on my model.

Vlad.
 
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knokinonabit
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The wire I cut was going into the back of my Sargent unit,located in one of the overhead cupboards behind drivers seat on my model.

Vlad.

Is it possible that you can remember the colour of the wire or if it was numbered please.

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Vlad The Impaler

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The wire was yellow and red on my 2004 apache it may or maynot be the same for you.
Below is the information I was given,word for word,if you have a wiring diagram and relate it to the following info this may help.


The yellow and red wire is fed from the 12v fridge circuit, in turn from the fridge relay under the bonnet. Its function is to provide a signal to the Sargent unit to switch off the caravan electrics when the fridge is running.
Simply cutting the wire removes that signal and allows your caravan electrics to function when you are driving.
Your electric step and fridge operation will not be affected.



Regards Vlad
 
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knokinonabit
Dec 28, 2011
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The wire was yellow and red on my 2004 apache it may or maynot be the same for you.
Below is the information I was given,word for word,if you have a wiring diagram and relate it to the following info this may help.


The yellow and red wire is fed from the 12v fridge circuit, in turn from the fridge relay under the bonnet. Its function is to provide a signal to the Sargent unit to switch off the caravan electrics when the fridge is running.
Simply cutting the wire removes that signal and allows your caravan electrics to function when you are driving.
Your electric step and fridge operation will not be affected.





Regards Vlad


Many thanks Vlad.
I will have a root around tomorrow and see if I can find it and give it a try. :thumb:
 
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knokinonabit
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The wire was yellow and red on my 2004 apache it may or maynot be the same for you.
Below is the information I was given,word for word,if you have a wiring diagram and relate it to the following info this may help.


The yellow and red wire is fed from the 12v fridge circuit, in turn from the fridge relay under the bonnet. Its function is to provide a signal to the Sargent unit to switch off the caravan electrics when the fridge is running.
Simply cutting the wire removes that signal and allows your caravan electrics to function when you are driving.
Your electric step and fridge operation will not be affected.



Regards Vlad

I have had a look and can't find a yellow and red wire. The wiring diagram that is in the handbook is about as much use as a chocolate fire guard, so it is back to the drawing board. There is no mention of a yellow/red wire. The nearest I can find is red/orange.

I am going back out there and see if I can identify the correct wire. If not, then it is the wire behind the drivers seat that gets it. :thumb:

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jonandshell

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Try pulling out the fridge relay under the bonnet.
Run the engine.
If your habitation electrics still work you are on the right track.
On your wiring diagram the supply to the 12v side of the fridge will be from the fridge relay right?
Follow that circuit and see if it works its way to your distribution panel. It should branch off to your electric step too.
Where this circuit meets your panel, simply cut the wire, leaving sufficient length to rejoin if nessesary, and your habitation electrics should stay on!
If not, get yourself booked in at Lincoln and wait for a crowd of Funsters to decend on your van like a bunch of Gremlins!!!!
 
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knokinonabit
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I can't find which wire it is at the PSU because nothing matches the wiring diagram :Angry:. Even my cousin, who is an instrument tiffy, just took one look at it and laughed.

So I did as Nigel and Debbie suggested and found the brown/white wire in the door pillar behind the drivers seat. I snipped this and yes, the habitation lights all worked, but the step wouldn't retract. Now I am sure that I have read that it can be done so that everything works, if you can find the correct wire to snip, in the right place. Right now I can't and I am pi**ed off. The wire is now joined together again and I am no further forward. :Doh:
 

jonandshell

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What year is your van?

You could look for a brown and white at the PSU.

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Last edited:

haganap

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My van is an 08. Again it's swift group, I know loads of people that have carried out this mod, some of them are very tech savvy too. Yet I know no one that has the step still auto retract when you start the engine.

This is why I have a separate switch so I switch it when I need it and not any another time..

Just as said when already on the move or parked up for a long period and just want to charge up? Why not fit a switch? Simple enough option.

I was somewhat surprised when Vlad says he snipped his and the fridge and step still worked? From memory of course it is a different van and an earlier chassis to what you have.
 

Ash

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My van is an 08. Again it's swift group, I know loads of people that have carried out this mod, some of them are very tech savvy too. Yet I know no one that has the step still auto retract when you start the engine.

This is why I have a separate switch so I switch it when I need it and not any another time..

Just as said when already on the move or parked up for a long period and just want to charge up? Why not fit a switch? Simple enough option.

I was somewhat surprised when Vlad says he snipped his and the fridge and step still worked? From memory of course it is a different van and an earlier chassis to what you have.


As haggers said this is the way to do it.:thumb:
You are best to put a switch in to make it safe,
I used a multi meter to find wire behind driver seat and put switch in the pod :thumb:
 

Vlad The Impaler

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I was somewhat surprised when Vlad says he snipped his and the fridge and step still worked? From memory of course it is a different van and an earlier chassis to what you have.

Not as surprised as I was Paul ! Infact I was bloody astounded ! Least of all because when it comes to electrics I don't know my arse from my elbow.I was amazed that after giving my van the snip anything worked.Thankfully I followed good advice from a knowledgable Funster and all went well. ::bigsmile:



Vlad

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jonandshell

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I was somewhat surprised when Vlad says he snipped his and the fridge and step still worked? From memory of course it is a different van and an earlier chassis to what you have.

I wasn't! I told him which wire to snip!!!!!!:roflmto:

I had given Jeff the snip the week before too! All courtesy of Sargent's online wiring schematics!:thumb:
 

Vlad The Impaler

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Perhaps it's you who should be the nurse John ,as you seem to have facilitated a few of us having the snip!

:ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:



Vlad
 

Don Quixote

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Not long enough, but a little common sense helps..........
Interesting read as we have a Spanish MH ( Benimar ) and when I start the engine makes no difference to the hab area at all. I thought this was the "norm" as very handy to have 12volt whilst traveling. I will ask the service manager at local MH place if this is normal from EU MH´s and get back to you.
 

haganap

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Interesting read as we have a Spanish MH ( Benimar ) and when I start the engine makes no difference to the hab area at all. I thought this was the "norm" as very handy to have 12volt whilst traveling. I will ask the service manager at local MH place if this is normal from EU MH´s and get back to you.

It applies to all British built MHs Don.

It's to do with national Caravan Council guidance. Strangely no continental vans have to operate this way when they are imported. It can be a right pain in the u know what.
 

Ed Excel

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And the cons are:
1. It's done for safety reasons (that's what manufacturers claim), so removing it could put you in danger.
2. Leaving the hab power on means all your sensors will be active. A few miles of bleeping alarms would get me bleeping.
3. It's giving the vehicle insurer an excuse to refuse a claim.

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knokinonabit
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As haggers said this is the way to do it.:thumb:
You are best to put a switch in to make it safe,
I used a multi meter to find wire behind driver seat and put switch in the pod :thumb:

That's it then. Decision made.
Having identified and had a trial snip of the wire behind the drivers seat, That is the one that I will use and put a switch on.
After all, it's only for the odd occasions, and I'll be able to switch it at will.
Should be fun when SWMBO is in the loo when it is dark and the lights suddenly go out. :ROFLMAO: :hardhat:
 

haganap

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And the cons are:
1. It's done for safety reasons (that's what manufacturers claim), so removing it could put you in danger.
2. Leaving the hab power on means all your sensors will be active. A few miles of bleeping alarms would get me bleeping.
3. It's giving the vehicle insurer an excuse to refuse a claim.

No, there are no cons.
If there were the Germans, Italians,Slovenians and Spanish builders of motor homes would do it too.

I get no bleeps, I am not in danger and there is certainly no insurance issue, but thank you for your concern.:thumb:
 

Ed Excel

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No, there are no cons.
If there were the Germans, Italians,Slovenians and Spanish builders of motor homes would do it too.

I get no bleeps, I am not in danger and there is certainly no insurance issue, but thank you for your concern.:thumb:

You're welcome. I'm glad you are happy with what you've done but I was responding to the OP request for comments, good or bad.
Me, I see it as UK manufacturers negating a responsibility; saves them build time at your inconvenience.
Converseley, it seems continental vans have their hab installations/equipment checked for compatibility with the vehicle and, therefore, manufacturers don't feel they need to fit a cut out).
Not sure you would get away with altering any aspect of a MH design, especially a safety one, in the event of an insurance claim.

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jonandshell

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I would love to be shown the evidence of why the NCC insist on this requirement.

My gut feeling is that it is done because thats what is done on caravans. Obviously there is no need for habitation electrics in a towed caravan.

The excuse that the habitation systems will interfere with the chassis systems is total crap!
 

Ed Excel

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I would love to be shown the evidence of why the NCC insist on this requirement.

My gut feeling is that it is done because thats what is done on caravans. Obviously there is no need for habitation electrics in a towed caravan.

The excuse that the habitation systems will interfere with the chassis systems is total crap!

This from the NCC electrical specification-


[FONT=TwCenMT,Bold][FONT=TwCenMT,Bold]4.3.5 [/FONT][/FONT][FONT=TwCenMT,Bold]
[/FONT][FONT=TwCenMT,Bold][FONT=TwCenMT,Bold]Electromagnetic Compatibility (Segregation of systems for other reasons)[/FONT][/FONT]

The Electromagnetic Compatibility (EMC) Regulations 2006 apply to electrical and electronic equipment liable
to cause electromagnetic disturbance or the performance of which is liable to be affected by such
disturbance. The purpose of the Regulations is to ensure that the electromagnetic disturbance generated by
electrical or electronic equipment does not exceed a level above which radio and telecommunications
equipment and other equipment cannot operate as intended, and that the equipment itself has an adequate
level of immunity to electromagnetic disturbance.
The standards call for the designer of the electrical installation to be aware of possible problems, even
dangers, when two electrical systems or equipments, placed in proximity with each other, are not compatible
‘electromagnetically.’


[HI]


This can cause one or both systems or equipments to malfunction; and if such a malfunction causes a safety system to not work properly, then the outcome could be a dangerous situation.
[/HI]
 
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This from the NCC electrical specification-


[FONT=TwCenMT,Bold][FONT=TwCenMT,Bold]4.3.5 [/FONT][/FONT][FONT=TwCenMT,Bold]
[/FONT][FONT=TwCenMT,Bold][FONT=TwCenMT,Bold]Electromagnetic Compatibility (Segregation of systems for other reasons)[/FONT][/FONT]

The Electromagnetic Compatibility (EMC) Regulations 2006 apply to electrical and electronic equipment liable
to cause electromagnetic disturbance or the performance of which is liable to be affected by such
disturbance. The purpose of the Regulations is to ensure that the electromagnetic disturbance generated by
electrical or electronic equipment does not exceed a level above which radio and telecommunications
equipment and other equipment cannot operate as intended, and that the equipment itself has an adequate
level of immunity to electromagnetic disturbance.
The standards call for the designer of the electrical installation to be aware of possible problems, even
dangers, when two electrical systems or equipments, placed in proximity with each other, are not compatible
‘electromagnetically.’


[HI]


This can cause one or both systems or equipments to malfunction; and if such a malfunction causes a safety system to not work properly, then the outcome could be a dangerous situation.
[/HI]

understand the post, but what about aftermarket systems like wireless reversing cameras and many other devises that can be fitted to a chassis cab?

my Adria as i would guess most imported vans have NCC accreditation and the ability to operate 12v habitation electrics while in motion. does than mean the manufacturer has complied with the above? i doubt they have even considered it.:Eeek:

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