Gas leak testing? (1 Viewer)

Apr 9, 2013
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Anyone know the precise leak testing methods and limits for LPG in a motorhome/caravan?

The British Standard seems to be unavailable to normal punters (BS EN 1949:2011) without parting with lots of money.

Before anyone says "You can do that!", I'll just say, yes I can. Indeed, I'll sleep a lot better knowing it's been done "properly" by someone who's own life is at stake rather than by some "professional" who takes yer money and gives you a certificate that's probably valid for as long as it took him to write it.

I've personal experience of professional gas men cocking things up so please, don't lecture me. If you don't know the answer please move onto another thread.

Thank you.

Tim
 

pappajohn

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if you are so intent on doing the job properly yourself then part with your money and buy the necessary documents.

the only people likely to know on the forum are those who do it for a living and arent going to part with the info freely.
 

GJH

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Anyone contemplating undertaking any gas work on their motorhome would be best advised to check their insurance cover first. Our insurance requires that heating and cooking equipment be serviced by a properly registered engineer.

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timdownieuk
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if you are so intent on doing the job properly yourself then part with your money and buy the necessary documents.

the only people likely to know on the forum are those who do it for a living and arent going to part with the info freely.

I would but ÂŁ160 for them seems a bit steep! I see where you're coming from so I won't hold my breath.

Cheers.

Tim
 
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timdownieuk
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Anyone contemplating undertaking any gas work on their motorhome would be best advised to check their insurance cover first. Our insurance requires that heating and cooking equipment be serviced by a properly registered engineer.

Good point. I'll check but there was certainly no question along the lines of "Has your gas system been properly maintained/serviced/certified when I took out the policy.

Doesn't mean it isn't in the small print of course.

Tim
 

GJH

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Good point. I'll check but there was certainly no question along the lines of "Has your gas system been properly maintained/serviced/certified when I took out the policy.

[HI]Doesn't mean it isn't in the small print of course.
[/HI]
Tim

It's one of the endorsements on our policy (Highway LV through Frank Pickles).

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I would but ÂŁ160 for them seems a bit steep! I see where you're coming from so I won't hold my breath.

Cheers.

Tim

Think it's a little more than that

The exam every 5 years is greater than that

Plus gas safe registration

Then your indidual specialty

Then the learning offsite whith someone educating you

Learning the the various informations

That may or may not be required for each exam

Give the wrong answer and watch your livelihood walk out the door

As you can't work on gas pipe work or appliances till

Reacreditid

one other thing get it wrong and you may face a criminal prosecution

And go to prison

I was a emergency gas engineer

glad I am no longer at the sharp end

Trying to keep people safe

Sorry for the rant no wish to upset anyone

It's just a reason not many professional persons are willing to give
Information as freely as people require

It looks easy when you watch someone test a gas installation
But it's the results and how they are interpreted that makes you safe !:thumb:


:thumb::thumb::thumb:

 

dave newell

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Sure I'll tell you, first you need to volumise the system to a minimum of 600Ml then pressurise it to 5 times normal working pressure. Leave it for five minutes for the temperature to stabilise and then if necessary adjust the pressure back to 5 times normal working pressure. After a further five minutes the pressure must not have dropped by more than 5 mbar. This test should be done with all stopcocks open and all appliances off. You will need the apropriate equipment to connect to your gas system and volumise it plus pressurise it and it obviously needs to have an accurate pressure gauge.

D.
 
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timdownieuk
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Think it's a little more than that

The exam every 5 years is greater than that

Plus gas safe registration

Then your indidual specialty

Then the learning offsite whith someone educating you

Learning the the various informations

That may or may not be required for each exam

Give the wrong answer and watch your livelihood walk out the door

As you can't work on gas pipe work or appliances till

Reacreditid

one other thing get it wrong and you may face a criminal prosecution

And go to prison

I was a emergency gas engineer

glad I am no longer at the sharp end

Trying to keep people safe

Sorry for the rant no wish to upset anyone

It's just a reason not many professional persons are willing to give
Information as freely as people require

It looks easy when you watch someone test a gas installation
But it's the results and how they are interpreted that makes you safe !:thumb:


:thumb::thumb::thumb:


Yes BUT, I'm not doing it for profit so virtually none of what you've quoted above applies.

I have an even greater vested interest in doing it safely than a "professional" as I'll be sleeping in the van. I've also seen botched "professional" gas work so I don't buy into the argument that professional is always best.

We both want the same thing, a safe gas system. I just don't happen to think that that *has* to be a done by a professional.

Regards

Tim

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timdownieuk
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Sure I'll tell you, first you need to volumise the system to a minimum of 600Ml then pressurise it to 5 times normal working pressure. Leave it for five minutes for the temperature to stabilise and then if necessary adjust the pressure back to 5 times normal working pressure. After a further five minutes the pressure must not have dropped by more than 5 mbar. This test should be done with all stopcocks open and all appliances off. You will need the apropriate equipment to connect to your gas system and volumise it plus pressurise it and it obviously needs to have an accurate pressure gauge.

D.

Cheers Dave, that more or less concurs with figures I've come across elsewhere since I posted (although I was quoted 150mbar rather than 5 x working pressure. Not hugely different though). Reassuring to get the same info (and more detail on the testing procedure). Much appreciated!

Tim
 
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Sure I'll tell you, first you need to volumise the system to a minimum of 600Ml then pressurise it to 5 times normal working pressure. Leave it for five minutes for the temperature to stabilise and then if necessary adjust the pressure back to 5 times normal working pressure. After a further five minutes the pressure must not have dropped by more than 5 mbar. This test should be done with all stopcocks open and all appliances off. You will need the apropriate equipment to connect to your gas system and volumise it plus pressurise it and it obviously needs to have an accurate pressure gauge.

D.

out of interest dave when you say volumise do you mean you have to add capacity if the pipework volume is less than 600ml also does the 5mb drop apply to that volume only
 

dysdera

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Wonder if anyone on here knows the meaning of the anagram TOFO...I do!!!!

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Hercules

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How's this? I can maintain the massive gas fired heat treatment furnace we have in work, which is big enough to fit any motorhome inside, but I'm not allowed to touch the gas system in my motorhome!
But hey the rules are the rules, there are some pretty inept people out there who need protecting from themselves, just watch You've Been Framed, unfortunately the rules effect us all, and it can be very frustrating, especially for me!
 
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Wonder if anyone on here knows the meaning of the anagram TOFO...I do!!!!

I had assumed it might be an acronym, but if so I cannot find a meaning (plenty for TOFU though).

Not many possibilities if it's an anagram, only four letters and two the same. I can only think of FOOT or possibly FOTO, neither of which seems to fit the bill, so tell us all.
 

pappajohn

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Sorry to hijack the thread.

just one post then i'm off :Blush:



Wonder if anyone on here knows the meaning of the anagram TOFO...I do!!!!

I assume you mean an ACRONYM and not an ANAGRAM ?

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dave newell

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How's this? I can maintain the massive gas fired heat treatment furnace we have in work, which is big enough to fit any motorhome inside, but I'm not allowed to touch the gas system in my motorhome!
But hey the rules are the rules, there are some pretty inept people out there who need protecting from themselves, just watch You've Been Framed, unfortunately the rules effect us all, and it can be very frustrating, especially for me!

No the "rules" allow you to do almost anything to your own motorhome as they are exempt from gas regs unless hired out in course of a business. You do need to be able to "prove your competence" though.

D.
 

dave newell

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Cheers Dave, that more or less concurs with figures I've come across elsewhere since I posted (although I was quoted 150mbar rather than 5 x working pressure. Not hugely different though). Reassuring to get the same info (and more detail on the testing procedure). Much appreciated!

Tim

5 times normal working pressure for the majority of motorhomes and caravans is 150 mbar. The majority of caravans and motorhomes in use today are post 2004 which means they should have bulkhead mounted regs set at 30 mbar, 5 x 30 is 150mbar.

D.

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Tofo a colloquial meaning of my previous employment
In the gas safety industry

Used to drive and work for my sins in order of name change

NTGB. = north Thames gas board

British gas North Thames Gas
Ring fenced from the parent company British gas
British gas Transco(de skilled to only pipes and meters)
Becoming the company that the operatives were termed
By full skilled plumbers and gas fitters engineers
As Tofo ( turn off and f--- off = Tofo)

These company's became national grid
And centrica took the ownership of British gas

From wence I take my forum name
Any forum that i now join I use wasatofo

Only placed for those that may be interested of course
Moving on I'm retired now and thankfully for it


[HI]edit
The quote in urban directory
is nothing to do with my
Forum name thank you very much
But it's nice
that time was taken to find its meaning
Sorry to disappoint you
In it being a bit less interesting
But that's life !!!!!!!
:thumb::thumb::thumb:[/HI]
 
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timdownieuk
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out of interest dave when you say volumise do you mean you have to add capacity if the pipework volume is less than 600ml

That would certainly be my interpretation.


also does the 5mb drop apply to that volume only

It's interesting that there's no upper limit set as having a much larger capacity would reduce the measured pressure drop.

I'm guessing 600ml was chosen as being the largest capacity system one would be likely to encounter in a mobile home so that the testing procedure can be standardised. Still, it seems a bit lax regulation wise not to specify an upper limit.

Just my interpretation of course, and quite possibly wrong. ;-)
 
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timdownieuk
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5 times normal working pressure for the majority of motorhomes and caravans is 150 mbar. The majority of caravans and motorhomes in use today are post 2004 which means they should have bulkhead mounted regs set at 30 mbar, 5 x 30 is 150mbar.

D.

My van is too old for one of these new fangled bulkhead regulators and has a 37mbar propane regulator on the end of the hose. Does this mean that all new appliances are optimised for a lower supply pressure?

Tim
 

Hercules

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No the "rules" allow you to do almost anything to your own motorhome as they are exempt from gas regs unless hired out in course of a business. You do need to be able to "prove your competence" though.

D.

I am aware of this, but what about the rules set down by insurance companies? and how do you prove that you are competent if you are not qualified? and if the fire or explosion affects your neighbours motorhome/caravan, what happens then?
 

dave newell

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My van is too old for one of these new fangled bulkhead regulators and has a 37mbar propane regulator on the end of the hose. Does this mean that all new appliances are optimised for a lower supply pressure?

Tim

Leisure vehicle appliances intended for use with LPG in the UK have for decades been capable of running on 28mbar butane or 37mbar propane, the new 30mbar regulator can be used with either fuel gas and the 30mbar is a compromise between the two previously used pressures. Beware if using older German equipment as it was often set for 50mbar.

D.

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dave newell

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I am aware of this, but what about the rules set down by insurance companies? and how do you prove that you are competent if you are not qualified? and if the fire or explosion affects your neighbours motorhome/caravan, what happens then?

Insurance company rules are a different ball game obviously but if you can prove your competence then all should be well. I prove competence by being qualified to ACoPS, I maintain this by doing a refresher course every five years, you could presumably prove your competence by showing your previous gas system expereience.

D.
 

dave newell

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i assume you test just the pipework with the tank valve shut

The testing would normally be done downstream of the regulator with the reg shutoff valve off, tank, cylinder or whatever should be turned off.

Just for general information 150mbar is around 2.25 psi.

1 bar = approx 15 psi
1mbar = 1000th of 1 bar, 15/1000 =0.015psi
0.015 X 150= 2.25 psi

D.
 

Hercules

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Insurance company rules are a different ball game obviously but if you can prove your competence then all should be well. I prove competence by being qualified to ACoPS, I maintain this by doing a refresher course every five years, you could presumably prove your competence by showing your previous gas system expereience.

D.

I prefer a nice piece of official paper that says exactly what I'm allowed to do, than have to prove that fact possibly in a court of law, but that's just me.

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