A frames (Again!) (1 Viewer)

[davejen]

Hi, all we are thinking of buying a Toyota Aygo, automatic to tow , on an Aframe, have any of you got one and tow it? ,any probs? I have had an a Frame before, an overrun type but this time am thinking of one of the "new type" with the smart box inside the car, Have you got one? and what is your experience of it? There seem to be 3 main players, which is best for service, and also price. ANY info gratefully received, thanks,
Cheers, Dave:thumb:

 

[DJA]

A Frame / Toyota Aygo

Hi

Just to say we have an 08 Aygo automatic and we have towed that for many a mile in Europe with no difficulty.

Our A Frame setup was supplied by Towtal.

Doug

 

[pappajohn]

i assume the aygo is a manual box with electronic auto gear change...same idea as the smart car ?

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[davejen]

i assume the aygo is a manual box with electronic auto gear change...same idea as the smart car ?

That's correct PJ
Dave

 

[Minxy]

What do Toyota say about towing it in this way - would it negate your warranty?

 

[Southampton]

I tow a Kia Picanto ona UNIBRAKE A frame. Works well and never had a problem.

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[Geoffers]

We tow a a new Panda on a tow-bars 2 tow-cars a frame. As you say only 3 choices of this type of frame. We chose this as the ABS can be made to work, but all 3 have their plus & minus points. But dare I say it ! these are alleged to be the best bet for 2014 regs .Also comes with a CE conformity certificate. The frame is light compared with the over run type, and as for towing, brilliant.
Price £1500 +vat

 

[busby]

Can you reverse with car on A Frame?

 

[Geoffers]

Can you reverse with car on A Frame?

yes

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[Hercules]

Can you reverse with car on A Frame?

Yes, even able to reverse into side road, my little Aixam goes where it's pushed regardless of where the front wheels are pointing.

 

[monk]

Hi, all we are thinking of buying a Toyota Aygo, automatic to tow , on an Aframe, have any of you got one and tow it? ,any probs? I have had an a Frame before, an overrun type but this time am thinking of one of the "new type" with the smart box inside the car, Have you got one? and what is your experience of it? There seem to be 3 main players, which is best for service, and also price. ANY info gratefully received, thanks,
Cheers, Dave:thumb:

Hi Dave I tow a VW UP with a Armitage A-Frame and found no problems whatsoeverwith it also i would recomend them to anybody

 

[Bailey58]

Talking of A Frames, what happened to Elvis and the all encompassing, super legal, even in Spain, product that her in-laws produced at the Peterborough show 2 years ago? It was apparently so far advanced that the rivals came round in the dead of night to take a look. I was reasonably impressed at the time but, not interested in buying and not too technical as far as towing systems were concerned, that wasn't too difficult. No posts from Elvis since this time last year. :Cool:

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[Reallyretired]

We tow a a new Panda on a tow-bars 2 tow-cars a frame. As you say only 3 choices of this type of frame. We chose this as the ABS can be made to work, but all 3 have their plus & minus points. But dare I say it ! these are alleged to be the best bet for 2014 regs .Also comes with a CE conformity certificate. The frame is light compared with the over run type, and as for towing, brilliant.
Price £1500 +vat

Surely the engine would have to be running for the ABS to work

 

[Minxy]

On their site it says:

Our system allows the tow vehicle to brake proportionally the same as you are braking in your motorhome, giving you full control over the tow-car. By having a proportional braking system we can issue a Certificate of Braking Efficiency to prove the motorhome and tow-car complies with EU Braking regulations - comforting to know when towing in mainland Europe.

and

How the system works:
The A-Frame is attached to the front of the car using the original manufacturer's towing point on one side, and a duplicate is fitted by us to the other side. This ensures the vehicle is towed at the height that the manufacturer intended for the vehicle, to reduce wear and tear on tyres and suspension parts.
The two eye bolts are screwed in by hand to the towing points (hand tight). The A-Frame is attached simply using two pins and secured with 2 'R' pins.
The A-Frame is attached to the rear of the motorhome using a standard tow hitch.
A special 13 pin lead is attached with a half-twist action on both your motorhome and the car. This controls all the rear lights of the tow-car including the reversing lights where possible.
The unique interconnecting lead also allows a trickle charge from the motorhome to the tow-car's battery when the motorhome is running. This ensures you never get a flat battery when you reach your destination.
Upon attaching the 13-pin lead, the tow-car automatically "sets itself up" into tow mode, and when the lead is removed after your journey the car reverts automatically to standard roadgoing mode.
A break-away cable is attached using clips. This will apply the brakes in the event of an breakaway - a legal requirement.

from their FAQs section:

Q: I have heard these systems are illegal abroad: is this the case?
A: The System has been designed in such a way that all aspects of the law are covered. 1. If brakes are fitted to a trailer (tow-car) they must work irrespective of the weight. 2. The overall braking efficiency must be proven to be over 50% on the train (motorhome + tow-car), whilst this is impossible to prove using a sliding hitch. Our system has been to the Millbrook proving grounds (the DVLA government approved testing ground for all things automotive) and because the brakes are applied electronically this has been tested to be above the legal minimum. 3. The trailer (tow-car) must be able to be reversed without the operator moving from the driving seat of the towing vehicle. The unique A-Frame design allows the vehicle to be reversed. 5. All rear lights must work from the motorhome controls including reversing lights. All our vehicles are wired to comply. 6. A mechanical break-away must be fitted to apply the brakes in the event of an emergency. All our vehicles have a mechanical break-away system fitted to the handbrake.

Q: That’s all well and good but how do I explain that in a foreign country?
A: We supply all our customers with a CE certificate proving that our system meets all the laws. We also supply in English, Spanish, French and Portugese information on our towing system and how it complies with EU law. We have had vehicles stop for a spot check but no customer has been forced to remove their tow car or been fined. The authorities recognise a CE certificate as an official document.

So the CE Approvals Certificate which they show on their site 'appears' to support the conformity of the BRAKING mechanism for UK law, but I can't find any actual Certificate that confirms that it definitely conforms to the TRAILER regs ... unless I've missed it somewhere! :Blush:

Personally as with all 'A' frames I believe, I do NOT like the fact that no mileage is recorded when the car is being towed which IMV is wrong and misleading as the tyres/wheels/brakes/some mechanicals etc will all have done the mileage, only the engine won't have, so a subsequent owner wouldn't truly know the mileage the vehicle had covered.

 

[Geoffers]

Surely the engine would have to be running for the ABS to work

Apparently not, the ignition comes on during braking activating the ABS. only small downside the car registers mileage whilst braking.

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[busby]

I see in MMM this morning a reader has been fined yet again in Spain for towing using an A Frame. He had the manufacturers Spanish translation stating it was fully legal but still got fined. Hard to argue with a Policeman with a gun.

 

[Reallyretired]

I use an A frame (Car-a-tow) and we were thinking of replacing our toad. We will now wait for the new law next year as it looks possible that all the A frames may not comply with the new law, in which case we will stop towing, as trailers are pretty impractical. This will also mean we will stop touring in the UK (the only place we need a toad)

 

[Ber090]

Hi, Had our Aygo fitted by Towbars 2 Towcars last month. Can only say that it works superbly behind our Swift Bolero. Great firm to deal with and would highly recommend. I did loads of research before buying and I am sure made the correct choice. You will find lots of differing opinions and many experts. If you do as much research as I did you will soon learn to ckeck facts and discount opinions given by people who do not tow.
Hope this helps
Cheers
Bernie.

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[Reallyretired]

The towbars to towcars braking is electrical and inertia operated, basically the same as the brake buddy which has been in use for many years. It may be legal after 2014 depending on how the UK implementation of the directive is worded. If it only outlaws overrun brakes then it will be legal. I will wait and see :thumb:

 

[jetsets]

STill not sure...

We are currently towing an armitages scooter trailer so we have some transport when parked up on site. However in this country if you want to go exploring in our weather its a pain to get all the protective gear on ( for two of us) and then it gets wet, and you cant take walking boots rucksacks etc etc with you very easily. Also getting the scooter on and off the ramp on a soggy campsite pitch with a bad back and its no fun. I Have to say it does tow great though.

We also go to France in the summer and planned on taking the scooter this time. But again wearing gear when its hot makes us think the scooter is not an option. So ..

We are looking at going for a small car to tow behind, but all the chatter about legalities etc. is making us think twice.

SO what should we do?


Motorhomes like ours have loads more storage than caravans so are much more practical for 'touring'. So to those that say if you need transport then have a car and caravan, we have done that and found that when we stop the first things is to get out chairs table windbreaks etc. that were stored in the living space in the caravan then they get left in the rain while you struggle to get the awning up - after two nights awning down again, wet/dirty stuff back inside the caravan, no thanks. . No such probs with our MH.

What about a 5th Wheel rig? - needs a biggish vehicle to pull it - specially adapted - and over the top as a car for a couple, and occasional grand kids/elderly parents. -and storage is presumably still a problem. Also 5th wheel units seem very big?

So for us the answer seems to be a MH towing a small car which can be used at home as a car not a truck. When we go somewhere where its not needed it wont come with us.

We are looking at swapping our current car for a fairly new Fiat 500/Panda, which will do fine as a day to day car and will not break our MH towing limit even with the latest braking stuff and a frame.- My Back will survive the very simple hitching up process. Its a risk as the law my bite back one day, and the MPG will be lower and ferry costs higher but you only live once, and you cant take it with you.

 

[spitfire]

Have just returned from the Fete Europeene for motorhomes at Vichy ( 1400 + of us ) there was a stand selling A frames. I queried the legality of using it here and the stall holder admitted it is not legal in France . Some French do take the risk he says but not many . So not quite sure why he was there!! Trailers across the van are very popular and there was one attached by two ball hitches . Very interesting.

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[Destination Unknown]

We have been toading a Toyota Aygo MMT with the Towbars 2 Towcars A-frame system for over 4 years and had no problems with toad.

A couple of small niggly things with the system but quickly fixed/sorted by Graham and his team.

 

[Merle]

We tow a new shapeFord KA on a Towbars2Towcars A frame, and I can only say it is superb. As previously posted Graham and his team are thorough and very polite. Nothing was left to chance, we left his workshops and drove back the 250 miles home with the car on without a hitch. Not cheap, but it really does what it says on the tin. As regards European law? Who knows, but for me I'll use the toad in the UK and go solo in Europe. As regards consumption, a steadt right foot and there is genuinely very little difference towing or not, I do notice some drag up the long motorway uphill drags but if you read the road and get your foot down a bit early they can usually be eased. Thumbs up all round from me

 

[spitfire]

We tow a new shapeFord KA on a Towbars2Towcars A frame, and I can only say it is superb. As previously posted Graham and his team are thorough and very polite. Nothing was left to chance, we left his workshops and drove back the 250 miles home with the car on without a hitch. Not cheap, but it really does what it says on the tin. As regards European law? Who knows, but for me I'll use the toad in the UK and go solo in Europe. As regards consumption, a steadt right foot and there is genuinely very little difference towing or not, I do notice some drag up the long motorway uphill drags but if you read the road and get your foot down a bit early they can usually be eased. Thumbs up all round from me

Technically it isn't legal at the moment in UK either as per my nephew who is a policeman. Is only legal to recover a vehicle but we have been there so many times already !!

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[TheTwoOfUs]

This is a genuine question. How do you reverse a toad round a corner? Once you put a bit of opposite lock on to start the turn don't the front wheels castor in the wrong direction?

 

[Merle]

Technically it isn't legal at the moment in UK either as per my nephew who is a policeman. Is only legal to recover a vehicle but we have been there so many times already !!

Surely that is the towing dolly which is a totally different beast

 

[spitfire]

Surely that is the towing dolly which is a totally different beast

Nope according to him they are all illegal .

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[Merle]

Nope according to him they are all illegal .

Hmm......so I and many others will be lining up to claim vast amounts from companies who have paid out vast sums getting legal advice to ensure they comply with current and forthcoming laws.....I don't think so.

 

[vwalan]

dollies are ok for recovery . a frames as well .
but although i stick up for aframes . the best thing is a mini artic or a fifth wheeler if you want a vehicle to go around in . find mine brilliant .

 

[Reallyretired]

This is a genuine question. How do you reverse a toad round a corner? Once you put a bit of opposite lock on to start the turn don't the front wheels castor in the wrong direction?

You're quite right, however because the MH is much bigger, heavier and more powerful than the toad it reverses albeit with the wrong lock on the front wheels and so scrubs the tyres. Ok if you need to but not something you want to do regularly.

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