How would you play it? (1 Viewer)

[haganap]

To say this is not a great week in the haggers household is a very large understatement for various other reasons I won't go into.

You've heard the "never rains it pours " saying, well at the moment it's pissing it down :Sad:


So just after some advice on a problem. Last Sunday, following my run, went for a bath, no hot water :Angry: Boiler has broken down.

So Nikki called a plumber out, a chap we have used on our rental and always reliable and highly respected. He came in Monday, identified the problem as a faulty gas valve said he would order the part and come back the next day. He then rang and said he couldn't make it so would send another plumber round on Wednesday. Come Wednesday new plumber Paul, rings and says parts not in he can't make it. I say not good enough and he then rings back and miraculously the part arrives. He turns up at 4pm on Wednesday and replaces the gas valve, boiler still does not work, so he leaves telling us its probably the PCB board. Turns up Thursday afternoon about 3 pm and rings Worcester (boiler maker) they say to him, to check something, he does so and it demonstrates that the PCB is working and in fact the igniters are broke.
Of course they have to be ordered and time is knocking on so I offer to go and get them ordered. Whilst there I ring up and he says I need new HT leads as well, I ring Worcester my self to get a part no for the leads. The guy tells me that the HT leads never go, but gives me the part no and I order them too.

Friday comes, I go and pick the parts up, the plumber arrives at 4pm and replaces the leads and igniters.... Me thinking I'm about to have a nice bath and get ready to go out...
He switches the boiler on and a massive spark occurs, the fault diagnostics on the boiler indicates the PCB has now gone. The plumber ignores that and says its the fan gone and I need a new fan.
I disagree with him and tell him I'm no fool and I think he has created a problem and shorted out the PCB.
He gets defensive telling me that parts can go at any time. It gets quite heated and ends with me practically physically forcing him to leave.

I then ring the original plumber and tell him I'm not happy with the situation and have no faith in the plumber he has sent round. I tell him what's happened and he says he will ring him. He rings me back to tell me Paul will be back in the morning and is confident he can fix it.

This morning he texts me to say he has reserved the part and could I go and pick it up. I get to the shop to find he has ordered a fan. I pay and ask the chap the question as to how often they go. Rarely is the answer and he says there is no doubting whether they have gone as they can be tested, I explained to him and another plumber in the store the story above, they both turn around and say Paul has shorted the PCB and this is the problem.

I then travel on a 50 min journey to another store to get a new PCB. The plumber has not yet arrived, but when he does I will tell him I want him to check his installation of the igniters and then fit the PCB not the fan.


So far,,
Gas valve £80
Ignitors £ 25
Ht leads £ 29
Fan thing £146
PCB £ 148


This before the plumber has the audacity to give me his costs for labour


What parts should I pay for?

No disrespect to tradespeople on here, but I hate them, I can't stand dealing with them. In my mind the gas valve and the igniters yes, the HT leads never needed touching, his incompetence in fitting the igniters led to the PCB board being shorted out....

I have purchased all the parts my self, if the fan is not needed they will take it back, they have told me to ensure he checks his instillation of the igniters to ensure he does not short out the new board,.

I have a good mind to pay for nothing and let the small claims court sort it out....


Not what I need this week not what I need:Sad:

 

[wasp]

Is it a condensing Worcester??

 

[haganap]

Yes ,
6 years old

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[hilldweller]

Welcome to the 21st Century.

Get mad with that.

The problem is everywhere, boiler, car, motorhome, everywhere. Bright university types get to design things when they've no idea what the real world is like. So when the product is brand new this uni guy looks a hero. Product is so much more attractive, better, cheaper even.

Then The Real World kicks in.

Uni guy could diagnose it in seconds on his expensive development kit. But plumber/mechanic hasn't a clue. He's not got an expensive dev kit and couldn't understand one anyway. All he can do is guess and keep changing things.

I don't know where that leaves you Paul but I have a bit of sympathy for the simple plumber.

I've been in his shoes, though I have stated before I left the door "the chances of me fixing it is nearly zero" but they where happy to take a punt because I can be there in hours otherwise the alternative is flying in a guy from Germany.

 

[Ralph-n-Bev]

I love trades men .:smalllove:
That's why I married one
If he cant do it , he knows a man that can.

Shame you don't live nearer.
Hope you get it sorted Paul, at not too much expense.

 

[wasp]

The igniter and flame sensor units are the first to go, because the heat breaks down the metal, so the thermo electric current which tells the board the flame is on doesn`t transmit very well, thay are both on the same piece of bracket, that would normally cure the problem. I`m sorry to hear you have had bad service tho, thats not good. BTW I did a service for a chap last year and I damaged a piece whilst stripping the boiler and I had to pay for the new bit £240.00 it`s about customer relations mate I would push himto do the work for free:Angry::Angry:.

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[Barclaybasher]

Yes ,
6 years old

I was told that the design life of a central heating boiler is 7 years - but many last for much longer, some are still working after 30+ years - but they didn't have PCBs.

Most plumbers, unless they are familiar with your boiler would struggle to diagnose problems with a modern boiler.

No help to you this time but better to call out the manufacturer's own service/repair team - costs more but it gets fixed - found that out myself recently - hope yours gets sorted soon:thumb:

 

[pappajohn]

tell him you will pay 1 hour diagnostic time (generous) and however long it took to fit the ignitor and leads.

anything else he can take legal action on.

chances are, as you paid for all materials, he wont pursue it.

 

[WynandJean]

This reads like an episode of Watchdog's 'Rogue Traders'.

Sorry to hear of your problems. Doesn't sound like much fun and it's all so annoying. I much prefer to do jobs myself wherever possible. At least you know what you've done!


(Can't do much where boilers are concerned, though.

Hope it gets sorted soon.

Wyn

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[Chris]

tell him you will pay 1 hour diagnostic time (generous) and however long it took to fit the ignitor and leads.

anything else he can take legal action on.

chances are, as you paid for all materials, he wont pursue it.

This:thumb:

Good luck with getting it sorted.

 

[jonandshell]

It would be cheaper to forget about fixing the boiler and buy that Rapido to live in instead!

 

[Wildman]

there is nothing more depressing than paying a tradesman for their mistakes.

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[jhorsf]

I would ask the original plumber how much he would have charged you to fix it pay him and tell the other guy to get the money off him as he was the one who subcontracted the work out

UP there for thinking down there for dancing!

 

[haganap]

there is nothing more depressing than paying a tradesman for their mistakes.

Roger, you have hit the nail so on the head.


This job would of cost me in excess of 600 pounds... Original quote 185 :Sad:

The thought of paying it :Sad:

 

[DesRes]

There's something so unjust about this story and it makes me mad.:Angry:

The original "reliable" guy should be called in to sort out the mess that the joker he recommeded has botched and let them sort it out between them.

Just as others, it's difficult to get a good job done on anything at home these days. I never get anything done now without some recommendation from friends or neighbours but even that's gone pear shaped at times.oh:

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[pendy]

Ours is all covered by British Gas on a regular basis they clean and service no complaints so far.

 

[beerdrinker1]

there is nothing more depressing than paying a tradesman for their mistakes.

As you know to your very great cost Roger, and not just the money. . . . the sheer frustration and worry too,

Ken.

:thumb:

 

[Barclaybasher]

Ours is all covered by [HI]British Gas[/HI] on a regular basis they clean and service no complaints so far.

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[haganap]

Well, its working now, for half the cost of a brand new boiler.

I couldn't argue with him at the moment, my head is not right to do so. I told him to just leave me the bill and leave.

He changed the PCB saying its not that, clearly it was, but he put the fan in as well saying it was a combination of the two.

I just can't be bothered with it right now..

people turn up, see a nice house, a nice Motrhome on the drive and think your some sort of cash cow...:Sad:

Thanks to those that have replied BTW. especially Wasp.

 

[Chris]

We all make mistakes though don't we?

As long as Paul's contractor is reasonable I would hope it will all work out.

I almost made a mistake last week that nearly cost my client about £100k

My assistant saved my butt:Blush:

 

[jennyp19]

Ours is all covered by British Gas on a regular basis they clean and service no complaints so far.

We used to have our boiler services by British Gas, until the thing kept going wrong, coldest time of the year - they would come & fit a part, it would go again within the day, arrange another appointment, order more parts, then come back 2 or 3 days later if we were lucky, fit them, they would go again. In the meanwhile, they left us with 4 electric fan heaters as we had no heating or hot water. This went on for about 6 weeks by which time they decided that it couldn't be repaired - we needed a new boiler. I thought it covered replacement boiler - not on your life, they would keep coming back over & over again fitting new parts. :Angry: However, they would do us a good deal on a new boiler - and in the end this is what we did. Cost us £1000 for new boiler fitted. (it got scrapped in the end, just about every part in it was new) So be warned if you think you will get a replacement boiler, you'll be b.... lucky.

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[Barclaybasher]

Try and look at this way - you would have paid British Gas more over a six year period for their 'Care' package................ and they are not the experts that they would have us all believe.................

Can't be much more to go wrong so hopefully you should get another 6 years or more out of the boiler - there was nothing you could do to prevent the problem, there is very little to 'service' on a modern boiler.

'Gas Engineers' do not service modern boilers they carry out a safety check.

Glad it's all working - just before the snow !:thumb:

 

[tick59]

SHOULD HAVE GONE ON THE SICK. CLAIMED PENSION CREDIT OR A FEW OTHER BENIFITS AND YOU WOULD GET A NEW BOILER FITTED UNDER THE GOVERNMENT 'KEEP WARM SCHEME' ADVERTISING ON GEORDIE T.V.NOW. LANDLORDS CAN ALSO APPLY ON BEHALF OF TENANTS.

 

[olley]

To be fair to your plumber, boilers are so complicated nowadays that you need to be more of an electrician than a plumber to fix them.

Ian

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[Bluemerle]

Sorry to hear about your problems and glad to hear that the boiler is working.

Would just make a couple of observations.

I hope people are using the word plumber, and not actually using a plumber! you should be using a "Gas Safe" registered heating engineer. You should also check their approval card to make sure they are allowed to carry out the job you have requested. you can be registered for all sort of things under "Gas Safe" and it may not include boilers.

Also unless you had a written quotation, along with all the agreed amendments etc, then you have very little chance of getting through small claims, as it is your word against his!

Sadly in my last job of 23 years i spent far to much of my time resolving disputes between client and contractor. My opinion is that we are all far too trusting of the nice guy.

Also and on a final note. I would be telling the original heating engineer that he will get no more work off of you. I am afraid in my estimation he is a very poor example of a decent contractor, and i wouldnt hesitate to tell him so.

Unfortunataly you were the one that got stuffed on this occassion, but hopefully you won't get caught again.

This is not to be seen as some sort of lecture, but hopefully seen as sound advice.

All the best

 

[haganap]

Sorry to hear about your problems and glad to hear that the boiler is working.

Would just make a couple of observations.

I hope people are using the word plumber, and not actually using a plumber! you should be using a "Gas Safe" registered heating engineer. You should also check their approval card to make sure they are allowed to carry out the job you have requested. you can be registered for all sort of things under "Gas Safe" and it may not include boilers.

Also unless you had a written quotation, along with all the agreed amendments etc, then you have very little chance of getting through small claims, as it is your word against his!

Sadly in my last job of 23 years i spent far to much of my time resolving disputes between client and contractor. My opinion is that we are all far too trusting of the nice guy.

Also and on a final note. I would be telling the original heating engineer that he will get no more work off of you. I am afraid in my estimation he is a very poor example of a decent contractor, and i wouldnt hesitate to tell him so.

Unfortunataly you were the one that got stuffed on this occassion, but hopefully you won't get caught again.

This is not to be seen as some sort of lecture, but hopefully seen as sound advice.

All the best

Thank you

Very wise words.

 

[wasp]

Problem is that new boilers realisticly only have a life span of about ten years,it`s not good when you think that it cost upwards of £1200 to fit them.I am still servicing boilers that are over 30 years old and still working ok, the problem is that they are not efficient, but my customers are happy with their appliances and the moral with old boilers is if it don`t cost a fortune to run it an it aint broke, don`t fix it:thumb::thumb::thumb::thumb:

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[Wildman]

As you know to your very great cost Roger, and not just the money. . . . the sheer frustration and worry too,

Ken.

:thumb:

and you know what the damn car is still not fixed and when it was returned (didn't notice until I had cancelled the insurance) The wing mirror was smashed and someone had reversed into the drivers door leaving a damn great dent.

 

[Terry]

Hi Paul you need to get friendly with a proper plumber/heating engineer or whatever you want to call them Cannot beat knowing people in the trade's
edit surprised you did not fit the bits yourself-you probably would have done just as good a job,if not better and a lot cheaper
terry